UK The minimum wage problem.

min wage is not the problem ...property rent/fuel/food/and general living cost have become so inflated to the point that 40k plus is a struggle....if your single and making over 18k/25k your actually worse off than anyone on min wage due to the fact that you don;t receive any help ...


putting the min wage up to £10 an hour wouldn't help ..living costs across the board need to reduced ..we see energy firms making billions of pounds profit when only 30 years ago they were publicly own

i think governments need to lay down the law and have set tariffs to control theses greedy share holders who's only goal is to generate profit rather than a service

People themselves are the only way out of a system of slavery created by a small group of extreme negative thugs.

And parents need to do this something for their children, and include their children, any preteen, say 10 on, can participate.

There is no future in slavery.

All people need to act like responsible adults, not children, who think they need to luck out and vote the right king in.

Basic rule of thumbs are, if your child is healthy and strong, you normally send them out to earn some money, no matter how small, and college if possible.

But I look at the major ways they have plugged all the gaps for change is this:

--buying up all the media, so it runs under their thumb, and monopolies.

--forcing small businesses out of commission, again not a free enterprise system, but monopolies

--no price controls, actually raising prices and forcing family breakdowns unless 2 work, and even 3, I worked out the budget for our rental of 1400, when you add all the bills, and our necessary computer and television/phone, because you can't live in a void, it would take 3 or even 3 1/2 incomes to pay it all and have ample nutritional food for everyone.

Norway has price control and controls inflation, it works.

--not to mention, who on earth wants to be forced to buy poison, to eat, and buy products from the corrupted evil doers, I don't support any of the corporations that are forcing people to buy their products by reducing all competition, all free enterprise, by creating laws and regulations so you can't just start a business at home.

Having zillions of unlawful legislations and bylaws passed to control every single aspect of your life and ensure you're in the sheep pen, and the slave wheel and very few can shake free and spiral upwards.

But here is the thing, its the people who don't get together, and make changes, that are empowering this entire system.

First of all, why don't you vote differently, even a local level. Why settle for the slave masters they shove at you, and even agree with some of their anti human politics. I wouldn't vote them in city council. Run ordinary people and stand up for them.

Dedicate time, after work, or if unemployed, time away from job searches, to work locally educating and creating Citizens Watchdogs and Council Groups.

Pool the hat, and get other businesses going, competetition. A warehouse can be run as a year round garden market, with booths. Make the stores suffer hits, and stand up for each other. If the City goons are still the bad guys, and you havnet got rid of them, and try to make laws against everything empowering you do, STAND UP ENMASSE AND SAY NOT ON MY WATCH AND TOPPLE THEM, NEVER VOTE FOR ANY OF THEM OR THEIR FRIENDS/ASSOCIATES AGAIN. AND DO AS YOU WILL, THE RIGHT THING.

Stand United Together. Even for Court, by the millions flood in.

Don't let a few bully the many with tasers, tackle the bad guys, don't hurt them, disarm them, by the thousands. Be pro active and firm, be tough and love at the same time.

We need: our media, and obviously newsprint is expensive. But printer newsletters anyone can make, and so make them. And get them out by running ads looking for paid ads.

With your teens, sit down and work out a business for htem. Ie if they're going to be slaves or work for minimum wage, make sure its your own business, not someone else's.

Find the way. Meet with others in the group, the council, the watchdogs, and support each others businesses, NOT THE MONOPOLIES.

Be political menaces to the overlords, make appointments with groups and big lists and put them out, and publish them.

So ensure there are free presses and news, there are new small businesses starting and do new things like, insist on affordable and beautiful, housing for all, pool up for an eco farm , overturn any laws that prevent it.

Make sure your children can earn an income ethically, not working for bad guys, and don't have to spend most of it, on overpriced rent.

We have to take the world ie, LAND, and POWER back from this small group of mobsters.

Apathy does not work.

And a thought just came, you have to ensure some big speaker doesnt come in and organize your groups under one banner, its supposed to be empowerment to the many, and watchdogs to the corrupt system, overhauling bad aspects of it, not, something that could be controlled by the elite or political, stripes. Don't give up the diverse power in groups to centralize under anyones leadership. We don't want leadership, we want freedom, and peopleship. Otherwise we'd just be hijacked by a partisan interest or marxist even.

reply to post by schuyler


Sorry but that's absolute bollocks!

You geniuses already had your revolution. It started during WW II when you took advantage of the landed gentry by taking over their houses "for the children." Then after the war your Chancellor of the Exchequer followed through on his pledge to "tax the rich until their pips squeak."

First of all the 'landed gentry' only made their obscene fortunes off the backs of the hard working men and women of this country.
They exploited them for centuries paying subsistence level wages whilst amassing massive amounts of personal wealth.

After both World Wars the 'ordinary' people demanded a fairer slice of the pie - and rightly so.

Since then every single government has sought to erode those gains bit by bit.

There is still enormous wealth and affluence in the UK the vast majority of which is hoarded by a privelidged few who refuse to re-invest that wealth in the country and people who made them it.

... A couple of generations later the big fortunes are gone and guess what? They aren't there to tax any more.

Err, yes they are there it's just that they exploit convenient tax loopholes that enable them and their companies to pay little, if any, tax.
And it's all with HMRC and government knowledge and consent.

In fact the government intentionally demonises the most vulnerable and needy in our society to deflect attention away from £120billion plus which goes uncollected through deliberate tax avoidance and evasion.

Further, because of inflation the butlers giving house tours are brushing up againt the inheritance tax themselves. be careful what you ask for.

Inflation hasn't been a problem in the UK for a long time - however thanks to the financial incompetence of the government and their banker / industrialist backers it is now increasing alarmingly with heating / fuel and food costs set to soar.

..... And that's why the UK is a pathetic shadow of its former self. You ate your own seed corn.

The UK is a 'shadow of it's former self' because Thatcher sold off the family silver, demolished the manufacturing base and started dismantling the NHS - policies which have been continued by all successive governments be them Conservative or Labour.

You taxed and taxed and taxed and taxed and guess what? Now there's no more money! You spent it!

Errr, no we haven't and there's plenty of money, just not with the people who deserve or need it!

As Margaret Thatcher said...........

Well, that's your credibility gone straight out the window - Thatcher was an evil, vindictive bitch and we are still paying the price for her policies now.

On topic.
The minimum wage was allegedly introduced to protect workers from unscrupulous employers who were paying low wages.
However, in reality it has proven a millstone around workers necks and now employers use it as an excuse to pay low wages.
Tradesmen and skilled workers now receive minimum wage or just above, rates which are lower than what they were being paid 10 - 20 years ago.

And how many companies that pay minimum wage regularly declare record profits?
Profits which don't get re-invested in the country.

If workers were paid a fair days wage for a fair days work then they would not be requiring working tax credits and would have more discernable income to spend on products thus fuelling economic growth.
More money, happier people, buoyant society - everybody wins - pretty straight forward to me.

So where's the problem?

Originally posted by schuyler
You geniuses already had your revolution. It started during WW II when you took advantage of the landed gentry by taking over their houses "for the children." Then after the war your Chancellor of the Exchequer followed through on his pledge to "tax the rich until their pips squeak." So The UK passed an inheritance tax law that squeezed the rich so much they gave up their own houses to the National Trust and after a generation were kicked out on the street. A couple of generations later the big fortunes are gone and guess what? They aren't there to tax any more. Further, because of inflation the butlers giving house tours are brushing up againt the inheritance tax themselves. be careful what you ask for.

It didn't start during/after WWII, it started a couple of decades earlier. Both wars saw a working class population wondering why they were dying by the millions for # all in return. The Britain that they were defending and fighting for wasn't exactly theirs: it belonged to the aristocracy and a bourgeoisie middle-class who'd have been happy to leave nothing but comes 'til Kingdom Come. They deserved change but no doubt you'd have been happy for them to have come own with limbs missing (or not come home at all) as long as they could sleep at night knowing they did their bit for King and Country without so much as a kiss on the arse. To be honest, it's hard to have sympathy for the landed gentry losing their homes, even if they have been in them since 1066. 1000, 500 or even a 100 years is a good run for any family in one home. Compare that to topical story of the two pensioners (brothers) who are being kicked out of their council property despite one living there for almost 60 years. I know who I feel more sorry for. Also, given how some of those stately homes were run, it's a wonder they weren't torched with their owners still in them.

That's because you geniuses don't understand a simple fact. You can only tax present wealth, not future production. And when people discover the government is going to confiscate their future production, they stop producing. That's why when Lenin taxed the hell out of the farmers the USSR wound up with a famine. And that's why the UK is a pathetic shadow of its former self. You ate your own seed corn. You taxed and taxed and taxed and taxed and guess what? Now there's no more money! You spent it!

Really? Is that it? The single reason as to "why the UK is a pathetic shadow of its former self"? Nothing to do with the rise of global economies - something the wealthy, generally, seem very keen on: exploiting foreign markets and foreign labour markets &c., then? Nothing to do with automisation, again something wealthy industrialists seem very keen on regarding maximising costs and labour potential, then? After all, the downside of automisation is under/unemployment, especially when combined with globalism and new foreign labour markets. Nothing to do with grandiose waste on a massive scale? I'm wondering whether all that money in tax havens is actually monopoly money because, apparently, there's nothing left to tax. Nothing to do with actually selling off whole industries to anyone that came along and then not doing anything to replace them or to make sure the rest of us weren't getting shafted.

As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Well, now you have and you're living in the results of it. But do you take responsibility for it? Of course not; you don't even know what you've done. But you still blame the rich and hold out your hand for the dole and the benefits you think you deserve just for being alive.

You think we have socialism in Britain? You're insane. We've not had socialism in this country on any kind of real scale. From the Industrial Revolution onwards it's been it's been anything other than socialism. A lot of proles doing the producing and yet very, very few people owning that means to production and those very, very few people have reaped the greatest rewards. That's not "socialism" by any definition. If you mean 'social programmes', then I can't imagine Asquith, Lloyd George and Churchill thanking you for describing what they helped kick-start "socialism". Is this whole diatribe a 'taxes = socialism' thing? If so, we appear to have been living in a socialist paradise long before anyone like Owen or Marx came along!

Now, ironically, the only reason the UK has a tourist trade at all is because people come over to see the Royals and the big houses. Without them there would be precious little else to see.

Interesting. Strangely, France is in a similar boat 200 years after their, more well-defined, "revolution" and they're getting by fairly well with their stately homes with no real aristocracy to live in the spare rooms upstairs.

In this day and age employers do things sneaky to keep the costs down, In my place of work everyone is contracted for only 6.5 hours per week despite the fact we all work full time, this is to make sure we do not have full paid holidays because we can not afford to have them.
If you complain about anything your hours get cut...heck I even heard one of the owners say about the 10 rise in the minimum wage say "Why do they get 10p more per hour? It was much better when we could pay them what we want" apparently they only paid £2.90 ph before the minimum wage came in.

I can not afford a holiday, I have £20 a week to myself after all my bills have been paid and do a dam hard job.
If I could meet my younger self I would suggest robbing banks.

People working for minimum wage; deserve minimum wage.

Don't want minimum wage?

Stop watching X-factor, Big Brother, stop watching soaps, stop eating Burger King and KFC meals - stop stuffing your pie-hole with random crap, stop guzzling down your pepsi or cocacola, stop staring at farmville, stop snooping into other peoples lives in FB -- stop updating your twatter -- stop drugging yourself with nicotine and alcohol which further fogs your brain deeper in the stupor that it's already in... put down your x-box controller and GET EDUCATED.

Go to the library and READ -- or if you're too lazy from all your pre-conditioning; educate yourself on the net. There's no excuse these days for being ignorant when you have information at your fingertips. Stop being a willfully dumbed-down zombie, accepting of minimum wage; just like the government wants you.

Minimum wage is YOUR choice.

Companies are offering minimum wage now more than ever because there are more zombies now than ever.

I recently heard on a talk radio show (can't remember who the guest was) but he came up with a very good idea which was governments should put a much higher tax on goods that the company gets made abroad but a much lower tax on these goods if they are made within the country they are located in. The tax needs to be large enough to off-set the low wages paid to the workers in the foreign country. This could also apply to call centers/help desks that get farmed out to foreign countries in most cases these days.

On top of that, I personally think that the government needs to cap the profits/tarrifs of private companies who supply goods that are vital for survival, i.e. energy, water etc. Or, perhaps some things need to be un-privatised and run as a non-profit or low profit making service.

I also think that ALL companies need to pay their taxes, not just the small / individual ones (thinking here of the very large ones that have not paid their tax nor the millions they still owe in fines for not paying the tax).
A good look at whether the money we have to pay to be in the EU is actually worth it is also needed and stop the wars (unless someone is actually making an attack on our country). Minimum wage needs to be reasonable enough to live on and wage rates should be assigned to the job description not the person's age.
Also maybe companies should not give wage rises as a % but as a monetary amount that is linked to performance and has a maximum and minimum ceiling/floor. That way you don't get the scenario of when everyone gets a 2% rise, the one on minimum wage, gets next to nothing but the one on a 100K gets a huge amount. Possibly would be a good idea to have a mandatory % relationship of profit ceiling for payout to shareholers/investors to money that must be re-invested in expansion/production/training etc, after wage increases etc have been taken off, so that a business is not solely driven for investor profit.

Anyway, I know this will never happen, the government seem hell bent on our country only being able to produce insurance policies and other pen pushing services with no real goods for sale or production and rig the game to allow the fat cats at the top to become rich beyond belief and everyone else just slides into the poverty pit.

Originally posted by yg2bfkm
People working for minimum wage; deserve minimum wage.

Don't want minimum wage?

Stop watching X-factor, Big Brother, stop watching soaps, stop eating Burger King and KFC meals - stop stuffing your pie-hole with random crap, stop guzzling down your pepsi or cocacola, stop staring at farmville, stop snooping into other peoples lives in FB -- stop updating your twatter -- stop drugging yourself with nicotine and alcohol which further fogs your brain deeper in the stupor that it's already in... put down your x-box controller and GET EDUCATED.

Go to the library and READ -- or if you're too lazy from all your pre-conditioning; educate yourself on the net. There's no excuse these days for being ignorant when you have information at your fingertips. Stop being a willfully dumbed-down zombie, accepting of minimum wage; just like the government wants you.

Minimum wage is YOUR choice.

Companies are offering minimum wage now more than ever because there are more zombies now than ever.

edit on 4-11-2012 by yg2bfkm because: (no reason given)

That sounds great! Oh, wait a minute, I know lots of people who spent quite a few years reading books in university or as self-motivators in their bedroom and still can't find jobs or work better than minimum wage. I know people who, on the back of the 1990s idea of 'we're all middle-class white collar workers now' who did college courses retraining for a new computer-based landscape. Try finding office work now: this government thinks it's unnecessary. From the same time, I know loads of people who jumped on the newly departing IT train, only to find businesses threw them off the same train because it was now headed for India and various other 'outsource' destinations.

Seriously, self-starters are great. I do nothing but listen/read/learn myself. However, few employers are really that interested unless you've got the qualifications and/or experience to go with it. If you really and genuinely know any different, set-up a blog listing all these employers and grateful job hunters will be buying you drinks into your old age.

The fact of it is we're in a depression (forget the crap about we're technically now out of a recession - it's an irrelevant blip). Employees know it, and those who can afford to recruit are rubbing their hands in glee. They can either take on enforced workfare people and pay them nothing (this is happening everywhere, not just the famous places) or throw someone a bone with minimum wage knowing that there's 100,000s of people desperate for the break and the government will top-up the wages they should be paying with working tax credits and housing benefits.

reply to post by yg2bfkm


What an ignorant, arrogant post.

I know many time served tradesmen who earn minimum wage or just slightly higher, are you trying to say they are work shy or uneducated?

I know university educated people who are forced to do minimum wage jobs just to earn a crust, are they uneducated?

For many, probably even the majority, minimum wage isn't a choice, there's simply no other option.

I dread to think what state society would be in if all these people in minimum wage jobs refused to work - educated, arrogant dicks like you would be up the proverbial without a paddle.

And yes, if you consider the acquisition of recognised qualifications etc then I am very much uneducated - I haven't a single CSE, O Level etc to my name.

reply to post by yg2bfkm


Ok 1st of all I deserve more than min wage in my job. I look after all your Grandads and Grandmas because you do not want to.
But aside from what I think Iam worth, I choose to do what I do because it makes me happy, In the past I have earned over 40k a year but it did not make me happy so I started in the care proffession.
2nd Ok everyone gets educated and has lots of degrees etc like you have suggested well seeing that we have 1000's of graduates who have been educated and still can not get a job well there goes your idea.
Just because we are on min wage doesn't mean we are not educated many including myself far from it.
You just sound like an elitist employer.
Remember we are all cogs in a great wheel and without the people doing the jobs you deem beneath you (from the attitude of your post) society would crumble.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by yg2bfkm
People working for minimum wage; deserve minimum wage.

Don't want minimum wage?

Stop watching X-factor, Big Brother, stop watching soaps, stop eating Burger King and KFC meals - stop stuffing your pie-hole with random crap, stop guzzling down your pepsi or cocacola, stop staring at farmville, stop snooping into other peoples lives in FB -- stop updating your twatter -- stop drugging yourself with nicotine and alcohol which further fogs your brain deeper in the stupor that it's already in... put down your x-box controller and GET EDUCATED.

Go to the library and READ -- or if you're too lazy from all your pre-conditioning; educate yourself on the net. There's no excuse these days for being ignorant when you have information at your fingertips. Stop being a willfully dumbed-down zombie, accepting of minimum wage; just like the government wants you.

Minimum wage is YOUR choice.

Companies are offering minimum wage now more than ever because there are more zombies now than ever.

edit on 4-11-2012 by yg2bfkm because: (no reason given)

That sounds great! Oh, wait a minute, I know lots of people who spent quite a few years reading books in university or as self-motivators in their bedroom and still can't find jobs or work better than minimum wage. I know people who, on the back of the 1990s idea of 'we're all middle-class white collar workers now' who did college courses retraining for a new computer-based landscape. Try finding office work now: this government thinks it's unnecessary. From the same time, I know loads of people who jumped on the newly departing IT train, only to find businesses threw them off the same train because it was now headed for India and various other 'outsource' destinations.

Seriously, self-starters are great. I do nothing but listen/read/learn myself. However, few employers are really that interested unless you've got the qualifications and/or experience to go with it. If you really and genuinely know any different, set-up a blog listing all these employers and grateful job hunters will be buying you drinks into your old age.

The fact of it is we're in a depression (forget the crap about we're technically now out of a recession - it's an irrelevant blip). Employees know it, and those who can afford to recruit are rubbing their hands in glee. They can either take on enforced workfare people and pay them nothing (this is happening everywhere, not just the famous places) or throw someone a bone with minimum wage knowing that there's 100,000s of people desperate for the break and the government will top-up the wages they should be paying with working tax credits and housing benefits.

Absolutely, well said.........what a dufus yg2bfkm is, obviously no idea that there are lots of people with good qualifications and don't watch tv/ don't have a tv, don't eat junk food, don't smoke, don't do twitter crap and do still read and improve their skills (e.g. learning flash in an online course that is free), who still can not get a job,... and I am one of them!!!

reply to post by Unity_99


Wow!
if only we could get people to take some of that advice. I find it hard to make people acknowledge there is even a problem, even though they are poor and herded like sheep. Its like they have a mental block that prevents them from seeing the reality of their own lives.
I've copied you post to notepad and saved it for later reference

Originally posted by boymonkey74
In this day and age employers do things sneaky to keep the costs down, In my place of work everyone is contracted for only 6.5 hours per week despite the fact we all work full time, this is to make sure we do not have full paid holidays because we can not afford to have them.

You work full time and your left with £20 per week, and your not even entitled to a holiday.
How is that NOT slavery!

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by yg2bfkm

 

What an ignorant, arrogant post.

Thanks for that, I was at a loss for words when I read that post.

reply to post by VoidHawk


I get 5 weeks holiday but only 6.5 hours pay per week so I just can not afford them.
Yeah 20 quid a week that's food and clothing and maybe a pack of baccy
A big problem is rent prices, I can not get a mortgage and I pay nearly 65% of my money to a landlord not including bills and council tax etc.
We need affordable housing and some law saying the loaded can not buy up all the houses to rent out.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

We need affordable housing and some law saying the loaded can not buy up all the houses to rent out.

I live close to Ashford (Kent) and hundreds of homes were built a few years back. As soon as the first house was ready it was bought by a couple who emmedately rented it out to friends, they then bought the next house and did the same, they now own ALL of them, it even got on the local tv news but nothing was done about it.
Now they are all affordable homes, with extortionate rent prices.
The uk is a cespit of corruption.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Yeah it is getting that bad I may move back to my Mothers house, at least then my rent will be helping out my family eh?
38 years old and having to move to my mums .
If you work hard, no matter what you do you should be able to get your foot on the property ladder.

The Uk when I lived there from birth until a teenager was never a paradise for honest workers.
My Father went down the coal mines at age 13...he wasn't stupid ...far from it later in life he proved that.
But thats all there was...or else you faced starvation and that wasn't so long ago in the provinces of England.
The rich are mainly but not exclusively parasites.
Parasitical souls who live to be parasitical..and to feed their offspring on the backs of other exploited human beings.

But that is the reality..and unless love suddenly becomes king on this Earth...we need to adapt.
Whinging whining bitching despairing will not change the parasitical soul.
Think ...only self help... helping you and your own and those in the gutter with you can change anything.
You can live without food quite easily for at least seven days ..as long as you drink lots of water.
The point being... you are not weak unless you act as weak.
God has many options for love to overcome hate.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
I posted this as a reply in another thread but I think it deserves its own thread.

Minimum Wage.
With hundreds of unemployed people applying for each job vacancy employers have realised they only need to offer the minimum wage.
Because the minimum wage is so low the employee does not pay income tax and they need top-up benefits because without the benefits ALL their earnings would be gone after paying Rent/Mortgage payments and council tax etc.
The benefits are needed to buy food and clothes and to pay extortionate electric and gas bills, and to cover the cost of getting to work etc.

Can you see the problem?
We have a workforce that is paid so little it cannot pay income tax.
On top of that the same workforce requires top-up benefits to survive.
If this workforce cannot pay income tax then from where do we get the money to pay the benefits that they need?
Where do we get the money for our national health service and all the other services?

Where is all the money going?
Its in the bank accounts of all those greedy corporations that only pay minimum wage OR LESS because they have a workforce that’s subsidised with benefit money.

I was sitting in a train station and heard four school children (about 15 years of age) discussing all that I’ve written above. I was impressed; I thought the young were too dumbed down to understand.
On hearing their discussion I couldn’t help but think of all the people I see in these forums who still don’t understand what these young kids have already worked out for themselves, that is…

Forcing people into work does not create income tax, it creates a benefit claim!!


If an employee does an honest weeks work for a large corporation such as tesco for example, then that employee ought to earn enough money to provide for his family without the need for top-up benefits.
BUT!!!
Every year we hear of the £billions of profit earnt by these corporations and then we hear the stories about tesco’s etc who not only pay minimum wage but have started laying off full time minimum wage employee’s and started taking on people who are forced to work just for benefits.
This means that the few people who do have a reasonably well paid job and are paying income tax are paying the wages of the tesco employee’s, tesco etc are paying NOTHING!!

Cameron should be locked up.

Unfortunately for you, you live in a country that has embraced SOCIALISM as its means of support. If you want to change what you are unhappy with, then you need to change your Government and put SOCIALISM to rest for good. When you have people who are not willing to do what needs to be done to raise a family and instead want a NANNY GOVERNMENT to take care of them, then SOCIALISM is what you have. If you don't like it, you are free to leave and go where you don't have it or free to change it from within. Pure and Simple, the choices are yours. Do nothing, and continue to wallow in it. All it takes is a spark of an idea to change things. One person can do much.

reply to post by schuyler


Sounds like you've been watching a bit too much Downton Abby and getting misty eyed for those great days where people knew their place ma lord.