UK The minimum wage problem.

reply to post by Dr Expired

The best thing is for people to think of a way out of the poverty cycle and not get bitter and twisted...

I like to think of things in terms of probability. The fundamental nature of the Universe is based on probability (quantum mechanics). What is the probability of any randomly chosen person getting out of the poverty cycle? Not very high, put it that way. You're fighting against the odds. And that I think is the real problem... of course we can all ignore the deeper problems and go about our own lives believing we will one day master the system and get our own slice of the pie. We only bitch and come onto ATS complaining about how the world is rigged during the time it works against us.

But when the system works for us, suddenly all those other people who miss out on a slice of that pie become completely irrelevant. What do they matter once I get my slice, they'll just have to work against the odds like I did and that justifies everything. This is the basic logic of most people, even I would stop caring a lot if I became rich... but I'd still know deep down it wouldn't be the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be to use my disproportionate wealth to help make the world a better place and perhaps establish a business franchise which does pay people fairly.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Dr Expired

 

The best thing is for people to think of a way out of the poverty cycle and not get bitter and twisted...

I like to think of things in terms of probability. The fundamental nature of the Universe is based on probability (quantum mechanics). What is the probability of any randomly chosen person getting out of the poverty cycle? Not very high, put it that way. You're fighting against the odds. And that I think is the real problem... of course we can all ignore the deeper problems and go about our own lives believing we will one day master the system and get our own slice of the pie. We only bitch and come onto ATS complaining about how the world is rigged during the time it works against us.

But when the system works for us, suddenly all those other people who miss out on a slice of that pie become completely irrelevant. What do they matter once I get my slice, they'll just have to work against the odds like I did and that justifies everything. This is the basic logic of most people, even I would stop caring a lot if I became rich... but I'd still know deep down it wouldn't be the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be to use my disproportionate wealth to help make the world a better place and perhaps establish a business franchise which does pay people fairly.

edit on 3/11/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

Very nicely put

This is absolutely true.
Star n flag.
I am chef in a accor hotel, they came in the top five employers list this year! They pay me minimum wage and I get tax credits to be able to get by. Shouldn't a great employer be judged on how they impact our economy?

Accor employ people in to being a strain on our country, and get a prize for it!

Junk.

One issue with the "Universal Credit System" that I don't see see being mentioned in the media is this:

1) People get paid tax credits weekly, let's say on a Friday.
2) When the UCS comes in the payments change to monthly.
3) UCS begins in April 2013. So a person receives their last weekly tax credit payment on 29 March.
4) They then don't get another payment for one month.

How is that person supposed to survive for an entire month on a single weeks payment?

Originally posted by CrystalBoe
One issue with the "Universal Credit System" that I don't see see being mentioned in the media is this:

1) People get paid tax credits weekly, let's say on a Friday.
2) When the UCS comes in the payments change to monthly.
3) UCS begins in April 2013. So a person receives their last weekly tax credit payment on 29 March.
4) They then don't get another payment for one month.

How is that person supposed to survive for an entire month on a single weeks payment?

They dont care whether you can survive. What should be noted is the paymnets are made via the banks. Hundreds of millions being deposited into the banks every month, I wonder how much interest the banks make?

Originally posted by VoidHawk


They dont care whether you can survive.

So, could it lead to riots in the streets?

Originally posted by Lagrimas
Accor employ people in to being a strain on our country, and get a prize for it!

That was precisely my point And of course those who do earn enough to pay tax are subsidising your employer by paying a part of your wages in the form of tax credits.
The more people there are working for minimum wage the worse the problem becomes.
Its a great big scam, and the rich get ever more wealthy.

Say thank you to Mr Cameron.

Originally posted by CrystalBoe

Originally posted by VoidHawk


They dont care whether you can survive.

So, could it lead to riots in the streets?

What happens when people cant feed their families?

Originally posted by SilentE
Let me know when the revolution begins. I'll be on the front row.

You geniuses already had your revolution. It started during WW II when you took advantage of the landed gentry by taking over their houses "for the children." Then after the war your Chancellor of the Exchequer followed through on his pledge to "tax the rich until their pips squeak." So The UK passed an inheritance tax law that squeezed the rich so much they gave up their own houses to the National Trust and after a generation were kicked out on the street. A couple of generations later the big fortunes are gone and guess what? They aren't there to tax any more. Further, because of inflation the butlers giving house tours are brushing up againt the inheritance tax themselves. be careful what you ask for.

That's because you geniuses don't understand a simple fact. You can only tax present wealth, not future production. And when people discover the government is going to confiscate their future production, they stop producing. That's why when Lenin taxed the hell out of the farmers the USSR wound up with a famine. And that's why the UK is a pathetic shadow of its former self. You ate your own seed corn. You taxed and taxed and taxed and taxed and guess what? Now there's no more money! You spent it!

As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Well, now you have and you're living in the results of it. But do you take responsibility for it? Of course not; you don't even know what you've done. But you still blame the rich and hold out your hand for the dole and the benefits you think you deserve just for being alive.

Now, ironically, the only reason the UK has a tourist trade at all is because people come over to see the Royals and the big houses. Without them there would be precious little else to see.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by CrystalBoe

Originally posted by VoidHawk


They dont care whether you can survive.

So, could it lead to riots in the streets?

What happens when people cant feed their families?

Just so. Yet I've been searching for a while on this, and no one seems to be asking how they are going to manage to survive for an entire month on a single weeks payment.

The stuff is gonna hit the fan when people start realising this. (Unless there is some sort of official help to 'protect' against that problem).

reply to post by VoidHawk

i work for one of the uk's biggest corporations and i've learnt a few things about my employer that really angers me, especially when they keep cutting the staff that are the backbone to our branches, the admin staff were laid off in june, the lady at our branch had worked there for over 25 years, she was never given any training that resulted in qualifications and it also seems that showing you are loyal means nothing now either, she still hasn't found another job yet,

all the while the corporation i work for runs a prison tool making workshop, the prisoners get around 5 quid a week whilst our company gets the tools for basically next to nothing and then we sell them on at over inflated prices,
this in its self makes me ask why they aren't employing some of the many unemployed people who would jump at the opportunity to work since the work is obviously there, but no... this action then has a knock on effect on our suppliers who would have usually supplied these products and then they need to let staff go too, i really don't know how they are aloud to get away with it

then we've had workers come and help out for 8 weeks on a back to work government scheme, if i'm correct our company gets paid with our taxes as an incentive to take people on, while the employee does a full weeks work for around 50 quid,

i just can't get over how its so bloody obvious what is happening yet everyone is too scared to say enough is enough, i can't complain about my wage at all, i work in sales so my work can be measured by sales figures and unfortunatly were just paid based on how much money we can make them, but the lads in the yard work just as hard, if not harder sometimes because their jobs are physical, yet they are on wages that would have been classed as good 25 years ago, but everything has increased and they are still payed the same

this is such a horrible situation as we all know that the governments that are supposed to be there to protect and look after us are the very ones that have created this whole damn situation and they are enjoying every moment of it, for now anyway, but there will come a time when they realise that they too are being used and they will suffer the consequences

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by SilentE
Let me know when the revolution begins. I'll be on the front row.

You geniuses already had your revolution. It started during WW II when you took advantage of the landed gentry by taking over their houses "for the children." Then after the war your Chancellor of the Exchequer followed through on his pledge to "tax the rich until their pips squeak." So The UK passed an inheritance tax law that squeezed the rich so much they gave up their own houses to the National Trust and after a generation were kicked out on the street. A couple of generations later the big fortunes are gone and guess what? They aren't there to tax any more. Further, because of inflation the butlers giving hous tours are brushing up againt the inheritance tax themselves. be careful what you ask for.

That's because you geniuses don't understand a simple fact. You can only tax present wealth, not future production. And when people discover the government is going to confiscate their future production, they stop producing. That's why when Lenin taxed the hell out of the farmers the USSR wound up with a famine. And that's why the UK os a pathetic shadow of its former self. You ate your own seed corn. You taxed and taxed and taxed and taxed and guess what? Now there's no more money! You spent it!

As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Well, now you have and you're living in the results of it. But do you take responsibility for it? Of course not; you don't even know what you've done. But you still blame the rich and hold out your hand for the dole and the benefits you think you deserve just for being alive.

Now, ironically, the only reason the UK has a tourist trade at all is because people come over to see the Royals and the big houses. Without them there would be precious little else to see.

edit on 11/3/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

The royals are a bunch of blood suckers, anyone wanting to come and see THEM is a brainwashed idiot.
If you lived here you'd know the truth about the rich, they're still here, they live in nice new shiney houses built by those who live on minimum wage.
Explain how a workforce on a minimum wage so low they NEED benefits to SURVIVE is going to dig us out of this hole?

reply to post by Minnie1985


Hi Minnie1985
Spread the word, tell your friends and neighbours, for every one that works it out they'll tell more people.
I wont put it in the thread but any chance you could pm me the name of that company? I'm just curious.

Spread the word, tell your friends and neighbours, for every one that works it out they'll tell more people.

reply to post by VoidHawk

I tell everyone i can even if its not what they want to hear, people need to wake up to the fact that they are slowly having everything taken away from us and we just accept it, even when i do point out stuff that is blatantly obvious they still turn round and say 'oh well, there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well just get on with it'

if only they knew that it is us that actually hold all of the power, we just haven't realised it yet, and i'm not overly hopeful that we ever will

my branch manager can not stand me and the fact that i can't be programmed and that i point out the things that aren't right to my colleagues too so they can stand up for themselves too, although he tolerates me but because he know's i'm good at my job its very obvious he'd rather i wasn't there voicing my opinions.

Originally posted by NeoSpace
To be honest if your sigle it's not even worth working for minimum wage.
I have worked since I was 15 now im 27 working 44 hours per week on minimum wage, it's horrible because I feel like such a loser going back living with parents at 27 but living on my own rent/income tax/Council tax/national insurance took up 90% of my wages and that was only living in a small 2 bedroom flat.

I was flat broke every month and had to go with very little food the last week before payday, I feel like it's not fair because I have always worked hard yet people that same age as me who have never worked a singe day in their life where living more comfortably than me.

I don't know about American tax's but here income tax is at 20% then there's local council tax, mine was 12% of my wages, that 32% of my wages taken before I have even paid my rent which was just under 60% of my wage packet, and that was a cheap small flat.
Plus everything you buy has a 20% tax on top.

The government are scratching their heads woundering why shops and businesses are failing and high streets have loads of empty shops, because people have no money left to spend after the high tax's and rent.

Dude, there are so many of us in your situation, its not your fault, dont feel bad.

There but for the grace of Mittens go us as well. We are close behind ya.

Our total tax rate in the US varies depending, but if you add up all the taxes it can be 50% or more. We pay federal income tax, social security tax, state income tax and in the big city, city income tax, property tax, sales tax, automotive registration fee, in Michigan a fee to use the state parks when you register your car. California has a law limiting taxes such that voters must approve any increase above a certain level, Gov went around them and created a "fee" for fire services, about $150 a year I think it is. Any income from selling stocks or selling a house falls under capital gains tax. There are special taxes on cigarettes and alcohol. Restaurants and hotel bills include an extra tax. Tax on gasoline (which is a double tax because it is on top of sales tax). ANd now things we buy on the internet are being taxed. And there are probably a few I am forgetting or don't know about. There are a few on bills like the phone bill and the cable bill that are easy to forget. Oh, and coming soon, Obama care fees...

Link to list of taxes here

Gov needs the money more than you,

you would just squander it on something like food or shelter...

maybe you can go to buckingham palace and seek an audience with the queen.

i think the british forgot who their head of state is.

isn't not the prime minister, he's just a schmuck who was delegated the queens administrative tasks.

right now, the queen is insulated from blame, while reaping maximum benefits.

the prime minister swears an oath of allegiance to the queen. he is bound by that oath, and if the queen orders a raise of the minimum wage, he is obligated to obey her and pass it on to parliament.

reply to post by VoidHawk


yo void

have you picked up the snippet about ISS Ltd? on bbc teletext.

this company is (offshore)based in the channel islands and is an agency for 25,000 supply teachers across the uk.

it is alleged that not one penny of national insurance has been paid and this could run into a small fortune.
hmrc are looking into it, however their reply had an aroma of ' standard pr statement then kick it into the bushes' imo.
if they avoid these payments, it seems to me that all 25,000 supply teachers will eventually become liable for the shortfall in their ni contributions.
i suspect this set-up is more prolific than i initially thought. this may be widespread. outsourced and offshored.

btw thanks for the reply. i will keep you and all interested member up to speed as and when i can.

btwbtw the above post was meant to reflect my concern that when entities avoid contributions, it has a deeper impact on the wider population and the end result could be resistance to an increase in the nmw as well as continued slicing of benefits to the needy.

regards fakedirt.

reply to post by fakedirt


Hi Fakedirt.
No dont have a tv, cant bare to watch the lies LOL.
About to go see a friend so will take charge of his remote control and find the report.
Keep digging - Thanks for the info. Will be all over it when I return home.

I live in the pilot area for Universal Credit. It's being introduced at the same time as the 'bedroom tax' and general decreases in housing benefit and council tax. It all happens in the same week in April 2013. I will be made homeless instantly thanks to the Tories pushing for social housing rents being 80% of private housing rents. There's just not enough housing in this area for people who live alone and private renting generally bars people on benefits and private renting prices have rocketed due to exploitative landlords turning a blind eye to how many Poles are willing to cram into a 2 bed flat for 6 months at a time, as long as they can push the rent up.

It's not been widely reported but the Tory-led government removed the onus of local government to provide housing for the homeless in the last 6 months. I'm dreading it. I've no real family now and, thanks to ill-health that's plagued all my adult life (I'm in my 40s), I've little in the way of real-life social networks. I'm pretty much #ed. I live in an area plagued with high unemployment and thanks to my health, potential employers (understandably, to an extent) will always put me at the back of any queue.