Mom calls 911 to help manage autitictic teen/ cops kill him

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
If the cops tasered him the cop haters would still whine about the cop using a taser. No matter what cops do, the haters gonna hate and whine. They can't help themselves, I suppose.

This is a tragic situation. I don't necessarily see police abuse in this situation, but I don't know for certain, and I will not give in to a knee-jerk response.

I do want to see an investigation. But I don't know if that investigation will do any good.

It could mean they stop responding with instant lethal force in cases with austic or special needs children. They may all be re-educated and forced to device other means of responding.

I think in depth investigations and retraining is needed.

I don't know if anyone else posted this from the second article, but I think this one line tells the real story.

wap.pbpost.com...

It was the fifth fatal shooting by a sheriff’s deputy this year.

Looks like they need a new sheriff.

This kid had several run ins with the police, they should have known what they were dealing with.

The way the story reads, it sounds like the deputy shot the kid as soon as he arrived. It sounds pre-meditated. If the kid was carrying a hammer and a saw, the deputy should have kept his distance and called for back up.

How long has this deputy been on the job? Sounds like this person should not be a deputy.

An incident like this should automatically trigger an independent investigation by a group outside of the Sheriffs department. Clearly something went seriously wrong here. Instead of calling for an independent investigation, the sheriff seems be intent on sweeping this under the rug.

reply to post by killette82


Whine, whine, whine. There are plenty of us out there that work in trades that are more dangerous than being a police officer, without the sweet benefit packages, who actually have to work hard and get dirty. Yet we don't get treated like heroes and get highways named after us when we get killed on the job.

This is an obvious incident where there should be a thorough investigation, somebody died.

Do you recognize this?

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by killette82

 

All good and well but I think we should wait for an investigation into all the underlying facts in this case before we decide this officer is not responsible for an unnecessary death.

Way too early to take his side when there are so many instances of Police brutality on film and on record.

Some of us are taking this side because we understand that the officer had few options... all bad.

You call for people to "wait for the investigation," yet the vast majority here have already passed judgement. You say it's way too early to take the officers side, but it's not too early to stand behind the officers actions? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Police brutality happens, but not all cops are mindless killers. I know MANY, and the vast majority are hard workers and people that I'm proud to call friends.

the new police motto: "obey us, or we will kill you"...should be on the side of every police car in america....the hundreds of incidents all over the country of innocent people getting gunned down by police should be called what it is "police terrorism"

Originally posted by ~Vixen~

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by killette82

 

All good and well but I think we should wait for an investigation into all the underlying facts in this case before we decide this officer is not responsible for an unnecessary death.

Way too early to take his side when there are so many instances of Police brutality on film and on record.

Some of us are taking this side because we understand that the officer had few options... all bad.

You call for people to "wait for the investigation," yet the vast majority here have already passed judgement. You say it's way too early to take the officers side, but it's not too early to stand behind the officers actions? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Police brutality happens, but not all cops are mindless killers. I know MANY, and the vast majority are hard workers and people that I'm proud to call friends.

wow!....that's it?...."not all cops are mindless killers?"....just some?, close to 10%?...anything under 20% is acceptable?.....i can hear the voice on the bullhorn now...PLEASE STEP BACK FOLKS....SOME OF OUR OFFICERS ARE MINDLESS KILLERS, BUT,...NOT ALL.

reply to post by Unity_99

It could mean they stop responding with instant lethal force in cases with austic or special needs children. They may all be re-educated and forced to device other means of responding.

I think you mean devise a non-lethal device.

They already do have several. It's called a tazer.

And as i said, it doesn't matter what device a cop has at their disposal, the cop haters are going to whine at everything they do because a cop can do no right in their eyes.

Even handed people look at the facts of the case first and don't look at anything else.

But yes, i do agree that cops should be trained to recognize people with disabilities and use different means to deal with them.

Even at that though, there will be some cases where a mentally or even a physically disabled persone can be a threat to public safety and no amount of peaceful means will stop him.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The public is expected to do everything possible before using lethal force in self-defense - back up, run away, using non-lethal means at your disposal.
Why don't cops have to follow the same rules?
Are they not capable of going backwards?
Sad stuff right here.

This incident was in Florida, home of the "Stand your ground" law. There is no requirement to back up or run away. Anyone remember the Zimmerman/Martin fiasco a few months back?

The assailant posed a real danger to the officer. It's unfortunate, but the shooting was legally justified, as would have been the case if he had charged any member of the community under the same circumstances.

Shooting someone with a tazer doesn't always work. What happens if the officer hits a violent and armed person with a tazer and it fails to subdue? If a violent guy armed with a hammer is approaching you and refuses to disarm or stop, how would you react? You can use either a gun OR a tazer. If the tazer doesn't deliver, you're dead. In that case, I'd use a gun too.

And the Camberdella house has been quiet ever since.

reply to post by newcovenant


Police when confronted by someone with a weapon that shoots projectiles at incredibe speed must use whatever force required to protect themselves and or those around them however.......

When confronted by someone holding garden shears or laughingly a butter knife, they should use something akin to the net used by Roman gladiators of old, namely an IACULUM

www.gladiator.hu...

THE DEFINITION OF RETE AND IACULUM!!!! RETE or IACULUM: Used by the retiarius, this net was made of strong hemp-rope, with small blades or leaden balance weights attached to the sides to be able to spread out when thrown in the air and cause painful wounds when cast at the enemy. It was woven into a circular shape and there was a stronger thread running round the perimeter so that, once cast and hit the mark, the user could tighten it around the secutor. It was fastened to the fighter`s wrist with a separate thread to make retrieval easier. Iaculum in Latin was an umbrella term for all weapons to be flung at the enemy, such as sweep-nets, lassos, javelins and slings, whereas rete stood for a simple fishing-net.

No, I'm not kidding !

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by newcovenant
...and was not actually any kind of threat to the officer.

... multiple 911 calls came from inside the home from family members desperate for help.
"(A caller said), 'Not only does he have a hammer, but he's got a pair of these hedge clippers that are really sharp and that he's violent,"

He does have a hammer and the hedge clippers in his hand," Bradshaw said. "He's starting to close the distance between himself and the deputy, the deputy's telling him to get rid of the weapons and get on the ground. "(He's being) non-compliant, he's still moving toward the deputy.

family members told investigators that the teen was not taking his prescription medication, which resulted in the violent behavior.

l ink

The callers were telling 911 that he was violent.
He had weapons.
He was advancing on police.
The family said later that he was violent.

Its a tragic situation and could have been handled better, but dont lie and make out that he a was a peaceful harmless kitten.

edit on 5-10-2012 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

I'm quite confident that the mother's purpose for calling the police for help was for them to help calm him down, not to kill him.

Don't lie and make it out that the police wasn't fully aware of this. However I suppose that for a police, killing is more fun than talking to people.

Originally posted by micmerci
For starters, how could the police officer possibly know that the child was autistic?

Because the mother told the police so when she called in?

Originally posted by jimmyx

wow!....that's it?...."not all cops are mindless killers?"....just some?, close to 10%?...anything under 20% is acceptable?.....i can hear the voice on the bullhorn now...PLEASE STEP BACK FOLKS....SOME OF OUR OFFICERS ARE MINDLESS KILLERS, BUT,...NOT ALL.

By the endless rants and accusations here, the general ATS population seems to think that 100% of law enforcement officers are mindless and brutal killers. Cops have killed people. House moms have murdered their own kids. Cooks kill people and cook their victims. To condemn an entire occupation because of the acts of a few is wrong.

The problem is that ATS is about conspiracy, and because of that you see nothing but the negative stories. People don't post "cop risks life to save family," they only post "cop murders handcuffed/shackled/unarmed 7 year old for riding his bike on the sidewalk." That's just how it works on sites like this, but doesn't make it palatable by any means.

Originally posted by nighthawk1954
Sorry people but it is police protocal ...If you are being attacted with a weopon (and yes a hammer can be deadly) you have a right to defend yourself.

You know, defend doesn't necessarily mean "kill". And speaking of which, anything can be deadly. Anybody is armed with a brain and can probably, given the right circumstances, come up with ways of making almost anything be deadly, including your own hands.

But I suppose police protocol just gives the police blanket permission to shoot anybody at will, then.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by newcovenant
He thought an autistic kid with grass clippers was going to do him in.

There you go again.

He's 18, not a "kid".
Not "grass clippers", they are described as "hedge clippers" (bigger, tougher).
You deliberatly fail to mention the second weapon he was carrying, the hammer.

There are construction workers working on the building that I live in right now and you just made me realise they are all ARMED while at work. I'm all of a sudden very, very afraid.

Do you really feel safer to know that all the big barbaric dangerous criminals who used to roam your area are now roaming the streets with a badge, an arsenal and full State protection?

I don't.

The police has gone completely hostile to the people, and it must be exposed for what it is, eventually dismantled.

Calling the cops these days is the most stupid thing to do, as you are becoming the first to SUPPORT VIOLENT CRIMES against innocent people.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Plus as far as I know police are trained 'Shoot to kill" not wound him a bit.

As far as i know army soldiers are trained "Shoot to kill" not wound the enemy a bit.

The police is quite the opposite.

However many of the new recruits in police are ex-soldiers so that the police can cut down on training.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
well, this is what you get when you send a nazi pig scum, to try and deal with a delecate situation. Cops just are not trained to deal with people, they are trained to kill them. And that is what they do.

Do not call the police, unless you want a body count. These filthy animals do not know what they are doing, and will kill anyone, for any reason. The have NO ability to defuse a situation without a gun, becasue they are nothing but a bunch of murderers.

Do.Not.Call.The.Police.Ever.

They are not trust worthy, they are not here to help.

edit on 5/10/2012 by Acidtastic because: (no reason given)

I hate to admit it, but I agree.

Sit back and let me tell you all a little something...
I worked as a psychiatric technician for 11 years, with many different types of populations. Geriatrics, teens, adults - schizophrenics, austistics, developmentally disabled, you name it, and I've worked with them.
I worked an admissions unit ( where they were off of their meds and at their most psychotic ), I worked regular units, group homes, and yes, a maximum security unit. I have physically restrained many, many people on numerous occasions.

How was this accomplished you may ask?
TEAMWORK. We had the appropriate number of staff on hand, and if we didn't, we waited until a few more people showed up so that we could deal with the individual. Guess what? We also had training.
Were these situations dangerous? At times.
Did the staff ever take a punch, get bitten, or get knocked to the ground? Once in a while.
What kinds of weapons did we have? NONE, unless of course you count our bare fricking HANDS - and our fricking BRAINS.
And guess what, if you got bitten or punched, or kicked, you went to the hospital, got treated, took a day or two off, and then LIKE A REAL MAN/WOMAN, came back to work. Why? Because that was your job and your obligation. It was part of the deal, it's what you signed up for, they told you up front what you were going to be dealing with. You either accepted the job with the inherent risks and responsibilities, or you didn't.

"Sure, but did any of the clients ever have cutting shears or a hammer?", you may ask.
No...they had chairs, pool sticks/balls, glass bottles, mop handles, the occasional razor blade, brute strength, teeth, legs...hell, one psychotic guy with a Black Belt ran down the length of the hall, jumped up, and kicked the unit door completely off of it's hinges and walked out. Wisely, we waved goodbye and let that guy go. We then called the police. Did the local police pull up and blow him away?
Of course not...they used the appropriate amount of staff, they subdued him, and brought him back.

My point is, yes, the cops these days are trigger happy, and they are complete PU$$!ES. They are now a "trained" paramilitary force, many of them with combat experience due to our recent military exploits over the last 12 years, and yet somehow they have turned out to be cowards. They can't accept the idea of being punched, kicked, bitten...but mostly, they can't stand the idea of being DISOBEYED. Their egos cannot accept that their "authority" can be challenged. They like to intimidate with their paramilitary clothing and weapons - they look and talk the part all right - they have the mentality - but indeed, they are cowardly scumbags on the take for a buck. They are TRAITORS who abuse our Civil Rights and The Constitution on a daily basis.
Indeed, the police themselves are the most dangerous ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATE in America.

Is my opinion too strong for you? My apologies for any ruffled feathers, but I tend to call it like I see it.
Oh yeah, my dad was a police officer...and when he witnessed his peers beat up a guy who was already detained, which then sent him to the hospital, my dad turned them in. His act of courage makes me very proud of him to this day.

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
The assailant posed a real danger to the officer. It's unfortunate, but the shooting was legally justified, as would have been the case if he had charged any member of the community under the same circumstances.

The shooting perhaps, not the killing. There are many, many, many ways to shoot without killing. However I suppose that police protocol requires killing in order not to waste tax money?

reply to post by poet1b


Like I said...I welcome you to go on a ride along for several shifts with a Police Officer or Sherrif before you make assumptions about what LEO's deal with. I'm not going to argue on wether or not your job is dangerous. You are right there are tons of high risk occupations, military being the only similiar in my opinion, but I will argue that you most likely don't put a shiny badge on in the morning, wear a kevlar vest and carry a firearm as a necessity, or go from dealing with a husband beating on his wife, to a foot chase, to having to tell parents that their 25 year old son his wife and infant child were killed in a car wreck. But thats only an assumption that your job doesn't involve that so excuse me if it does. There are very few professions that can even compare. Yes cops get nice benifit packages and make an average salary. Just look up statistics on stress levels, job engrossment, death after retirement, divorce rate etc. I know I'm jaded because I do this for a living. I have a feeling no matter what I say its not going to matter say unless you experience it for yourself.

In my state if I was in a shooting incident the SBI would conduct an investigation which is outside of the agency I work for to make sure that the incident was justified. If this cop shot this kid in cold blood then he will be charged. At least he would be in my state I can't speak for out of state agencies. It just upsets me that all the cop haters continuously bash everyone in the proffesion or immediately take the side of the person who was shot when they were not there to witness the situation. Its a lot different when someone is coming at YOU with a weapon. The other poster was right about the 21 foot radius. Cops are trained that within 21 feet an edged weapon can be deployed faster than you can draw and shoot your firearm. We have CIT officers as well but we just recieved quarterly training on recognizing and dealing with mentally handicapped people. I personally have seen an autistic gentleman become very violent and overpower a Sheriff's Deputy about 5 years ago. This is when basically every officer was recieving the Crisis Intervention Team training. I don't think there was any special way the officer could have handled the situation other than the way it was handled. This incident resulted in a taser being deployed to bring the unarmed suspect into custody. The family stated after the fact that it was unfair for us to tase ther 19 year old son. Independant witnesses are the ones who helped us by cooberating what happened. It still doesn't make a difference as far as deadly force goes. This is a sad situation but if the cop feared for serious bodily injury to himself or another person, he is going to be found justified in pulling the trigger. If the cop did something wrong I hope he gets burned for it, but to automatically jump to huge conclusions off of a news article is ludacris. I just wish the bad apples would get out of the business so the good guys can actually get some recognition for the good things that occur because of an LEO every day.