Mom calls 911 to help manage autitictic teen/ cops kill him

Just from reading the article provided by the OP it seems apparent the cops really screwed this one up. If the officer knew before arriving that the boy was autistic he should have been thinking of ways he could have handled the situation before he got on scene. There are many other options besides the ole "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.

This is definitely and unfortunate situation for all involved and hopefully this wrongful shooting will be used by police nationwide to get proper training on how to handle autistic adults/children. Autism is increasing in our country and police depts better get some proper training on how to confront these people without using deadly force.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
well, this is what you get when you send a nazi pig scum, to try and deal with a delecate situation. Cops just are not trained to deal with people, they are trained to kill them. And that is what they do.

Do not call the police, unless you want a body count. These filthy animals do not know what they are doing, and will kill anyone, for any reason. The have NO ability to defuse a situation without a gun, becasue they are nothing but a bunch of murderers.

Do.Not.Call.The.Police.Ever.

They are not trust worthy, they are not here to help.

...nazi pig scum...

...These filthy animals...

...nothing but a bunch of murderers

This may be one of the worst, most inflammatory, most hateful, posts I have ever read on ATS.

This officer arrived on the scene, after a 911 call indicating that a violent youth was armed and out of control. As soon as he got out of his vehicle, he was rushed by somebody wielding lethal weapons - and the assailant did not respond to instructions to halt.

Of course he fired. He had every right to defend himself. It does not matter if the young man was autistic, insane, on PCP, or "just kidding". A police officer is just as entitled to protect himself as any other citizen.

Police officers go through a lot of training on the handling of situations - and the vast majority of domestic dispute calls they attend, end without violence precisely because they know how to calm people down, and to talk people out of acting violently.

But, when you arrive on a scene and are immediately accosted by the individual you were dispatched to deal with - it can come down to a split-second decision as to whether it is going to be you or the "bad guy" who is going down.

I find your characterizations of this man - and the black brush you use to paint all of those who are paid to serve and protect - scandalous to say the least.

]

Originally posted by Monger

edit on 6-10-2012 by moonzoo7 because: added link

Originally posted by Siberbat
USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM:
3. Soft hands - Physical escorts, joint locks, take downs.
4. Hard hands - Strikes to torso or extremities. Strikes to neck or head is lethal force.
5. Non-lethal force - Tazer, sprays, beanbag rounds
6. Lethal force - Force which could lead to permanent injury or death. broken bones, guns, edged weapons.

For anybody but a cop:

Soft hands - Assault.
Hard hands - Assault.
Non-lethal force - Assault with a weapon.













Lethal force - Murder.

How do you not understand that to a large segment of the population, somebody with the right to do those things to you if you don't follow their commands just doesn't sit right with them?

I'm not naive, I know that I only have the illusion of freedom. But God damnit, I'd like to hang on to that illusion for a little while longer at least.

If an officer orders me to do something because he suspects, in his infinite wisdom, that I might be up to something suspicious, then I do it. Because that officer has the right to assault me if I don't follow his orders, he has the right to beat and tase me if I resist said assault. Even if no crime has been committed.

And if I decided that enough is enough, that I won't have my freedoms trampled anymore by a thug hiding behind a shield, and decide to defend myself, then he has the right to kill me, and will be hailed as a hero for it.

Indeed. The police can call you names, insult you, put their hands on you, ask inappropriate questions, antagonize you, and yet you'd better damn well keep your mouth shut and your attitude adjusted to zero.
We all know what will happen if you you say or do otherwise, so let's not not be coy about the reality of interacting with the police.
How many YouTube videos do we have to reference to make the point clear?
Normally, I'd post one or two just to highlight my point, but they've all been posted here and discussed AD NAUSEUM. I've listed several of them in my previous posts on this thread. I'm not making myself out to be anyone special, but I have written some pointed and cogent responses to a couple of police officers in this thread, and their response to me is.....NADA.
Why?
Because they know what the score is. They know that they all cover up for each other whenever possible.

Someone referenced the "Few Bad Apples" cliche a few posts back....
I submit that it's quite the other way around; There are a few good cops, but the majority of them ARE the Bad Apples. The whole fricking basket is rotten.

I challenge anyone to logically justify why those college kids ( sitting down no less, on their own campus ) in Sacramento needed to be pepper sprayed.
Or the lady punched in the face ( from behind ) in PA last week.
Or the guy shot dead in a huge, EMPTY parking lot in Michigan, where the cops had a "safety zone" much larger than 21 Ft. to work with - the guy had a butter knife, for Christs's sake. hell, if I had been been there, I would have talked to him, and at worst, I would have taken a slash from a butter knife and subdued him.
Shoot him dead? Why? Because those cops are cowards, that's why.
-The nurse slammed to the ground in LA for mouthing off...on and on and on....

The police will continue to intimidate, threaten and abuse the citizens.
The citizens will continue to mistrust them, resent them, and hate them.
Nothing will change.
No amount of logical arguments, YouTube videos or ATS threads will change this.
The average American citizen is locked into the classic US & THEM struggle with our beloved, beneficent "authorities"......TO PROTECT AND SERVE - themselves!
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Monger

Originally posted by Siberbat
USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM:
3. Soft hands - Physical escorts, joint locks, take downs.
4. Hard hands - Strikes to torso or extremities. Strikes to neck or head is lethal force.
5. Non-lethal force - Tazer, sprays, beanbag rounds
6. Lethal force - Force which could lead to permanent injury or death. broken bones, guns, edged weapons.

For anybody but a cop:

Soft hands - Assault.
Hard hands - Assault.
Non-lethal force - Assault with a weapon.
Lethal force - Murder.

How do you not understand that to a large segment of the population, somebody with the right to do those things to you if you don't follow their commands just doesn't sit right with them?

I'm not naive, I know that I only have the illusion of freedom. But God damnit, I'd like to hang on to that illusion for a little while longer at least.

If an officer orders me to do something because he suspects, in his infinite wisdom, that I might be up to something suspicious, then I do it. Because that officer has the right to assault me if I don't follow his orders, he has the right to beat and tase me if I resist said assault. Even if no crime has been committed.

And if I decided that enough is enough, that I won't have my freedoms trampled anymore by a thug hiding behind a shield, and decide to defend myself, then he has the right to kill me, and will be hailed as a hero for it.

I guess we go off topic for a bit. You forgot to mention:
1. Presence - Uniformed presence
2. Descalation - Talking or calming of subject. Giving commands to comply.

One must not be fearful of the police if they know their rights. You see there is nothing under law which says cops can't lie or trick you into confessing to a crime. Their job is to get the arrest.
Here's what you do

I know I haven't posted in here in a long time but as some of you know this is a subject near and dear to me. Until my daughter went into a residential center back in May, it was extremely rough. Constantly getting beaten, the house getting broken, throwing things, just non-stop drama. And yes, even calling 911 for help. Why? Because that is what you are told to do by the services set up to help you. That is one of the steps. Some, not all, police stations, have a special unit trained to work with special needs children and adult. But not all cities have this. As to forcing them to take their medication, even a child has a medical right to refuse medication. You cannot force anyone to take it. And trying to force them only angers or stresses them further, when the idea is to calm them. Trust me when I say many of us parents long for a day when we can just shoot with a tranq dart like they do in the jungle with their meds when they won't take them. It would prevent a LOT of the verbal tantrums and physical tantrums we are forced to go through.

In fact, tomorrow I am going to visit my daughter for the first time since May. She's been doing MUCH better since the last time many of you knew about her. She very rarely gets physical. When she feels a temper coming on, she goes to her room, and sits in her closet for calm down time. She has designated her closet as her peaceful zone. She's decorated it with Pokemon posters, and Justin Beiber. Once in a while her temper gets the best of her and when it does, so loses Stride Bucks (dollars she earns towards prizes), plus she has to do a chore such as mopping or cleaning. We do have to work on her sailor language, but she is getting better at that too. When I visit her, she has to behave the entire time I'm there to earn spending the last night with me. We'll see how she is with me, before we go that route. She'll be discharged in November, beginning December to my husband's custody. (For my protection and hers.) And depending on good behavior when she's home she can earn a Friday night Movie Night Slumber Party at my house. I'm already on the housing list up there so I'll live near by. We'll have a therapist on phone, respite, a behavioral therapist to work out a behavioral plan for home and school, a counselor to show how to work with the behavioral plan, and to show the school how to work with it, plus she have office therapy appointments. So a very WIDE network of support when she gets out.

Do I hope this works? Sweet Jesus yes I've done everything else. Am I afraid one day she'll be the girl in the article, the one on the milkbox carton, or the one being pimped on the street and not realizing what's being done to her, OMG yes. I'm absolutely scared to death for her and have been since I found out about her autism and how low on the scale of retardation she was. I will always be scared for her.

The officers could have tasered the teen instead of shooting him. It seems in the states excessive force is something that we are hearing more and more of your officers use. I feel for the mother.

An autistic child in a rage is a sight to behold - most of you haven't witnessed it, I'm sure. I can tell you I had never seen the likes on my first experience - screaming, throwing things, stomping, pushing hitting... However, as a person hired to deal with such persons, the first thing my employer did was send me to Mindset training to learn techniques to diffuse such situations. It was my understanding that our local cops were also trained - but perhaps not the cops where this story took place. If that stupid mother had bothered to get training she wouldn't have needed to call the cops. If she had pepper spray or some non-lethal take-down weapon, she wouldn't have needed to call the cops. I'm so tired of parents who have broken kids (often due to their own irresponsible use of prescription or illegal drugs) and then want everyone else to fix their problems while they go around telling everyone about their burden.

reply to post by Thunderheart


yes they can kill you but as a peace keeper you should have enough training to be able to control situtation. i am no cop but if a crazed teen coming at me with a hammer and i got pepperspray or a tazer or a billy club i am confidant that i can disarm him and he would be alive yes he may be injured but i would rather my child had a broke arm then have to buy him a casket to go in the ground. and no i am not aGAINST GUNS BUT THEY WERENT WARRANTED IN THIS SIT.

If things happened differently this topic's headline would be, "Police Officer being sued for using excessive force to disarm and subdue an autistic person." It was a lose/lose situation for the cop.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I couldn't agree more. This cop should be jailed for sure. I am a martial arts instructor and I firmly believe you should not be even considered to be hired on as a cop, until you can throw down with someone like me! Let me tell you, I would bet my house maybe 1% can. Very sad state of affairs. Giving pussies guns is a mistake! and WTF is this shoot first ask questions later BS?! Protect and Serve, Not Shoot to Kill! The very fact this cop knew full well that this person was autistic, should land him in jail! If it was my son, the cop might not make it there, but then again, I would never have called the high school drop outs in the first place.

Originally posted by mjfromga
An autistic child in a rage is a sight to behold - most of you haven't witnessed it, I'm sure. I can tell you I had never seen the likes on my first experience - screaming, throwing things, stomping, pushing hitting... However, as a person hired to deal with such persons, the first thing my employer did was send me to Mindset training to learn techniques to diffuse such situations. It was my understanding that our local cops were also trained - but perhaps not the cops where this story took place. If that stupid mother had bothered to get training she wouldn't have needed to call the cops. If she had pepper spray or some non-lethal take-down weapon, she wouldn't have needed to call the cops. I'm so tired of parents who have broken kids (often due to their own irresponsible use of prescription or illegal drugs) and then want everyone else to fix their problems while they go around telling everyone about their burden.

Please don't call the mother stupid. Not all parents KNOW there is training for this that they can go to. Also when you have someone the size of an adult male coming at you, it is hard to use non-lethal subdue techniques alone especially when they are coming at you with everything they have. And I do mean everything. You say you haven't witnessed it first hand. What first must be done is to STOP blaming the parents. We do what we can for our children and we bust our butts trying anything and everything to get them the help that they need, including sacrificing our own health, our time, jobs, money, you name it. Only to be blamed time and time again. Either it's our fault for not giving them their way 24/7. It's our fault for giving them their way 24/7. It's our fault for not giving them this prescribed medication. It's our fault for giving them this prescribed medication. You know what guys. Sometimes Autism just is and and it's no ones fault. That's it. There's the nutshell. Sometimes you go through the system and the system tells you to take certain steps, and some of those steps may include calling 911.

The tragedy here is the mother informed 911 her son was autistic, but 911 may not have informed the deputy. I had that happen here. That's why whenever they showed up I would always inform them AGAIN regardless of what I informed 911. You never know. We also informed the police if they had to take her down, please spray her or taze her, but only if necessary. Because they were trained to deal with children like her, they would usually tell me that that would be the last resort and they would try not to have to resort to that. Luckily, all but one time, we always got good deputies and cops that arrived at the house. They always had an EMT respond as well as a precaution when dealing with children like her. Everyone always was very calm with her, worked well with her, and even when they had to be forceful, they still were very calm, but let her know, they were in charge. She was never once hurt by them. My sister even once told the cops this was the result of bad parenting and the officer responded that she needed to educate herself about autism because this had nothing to do with parenting whatsoever and they he had an autistic son himself. Surprise the heck out of me.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by truthermantwo
If the boy was afraid of police, why did the mother call them, she should have called an ambulance or just locked him in a room somehow. Don't get me wrong im mad at the police that shot him, but i think the mother could have done something different, we need to get out of relying on the police, they're more violent sometimes, than the violent.

I agree completely. Call an ambulance where they can sedate him. Yes, that means getting in arm's reach and that carries risk, but I would think five or six cops could unarm him using little more than a net or pepper spray. Then they simply hold him down, give the tranquilizer, and take him to a hospital to help him regain control.

But I'm not a policeman, this is pure speculation on my part. Maybe feasible, maybe not.

Most cities a patrolman MUST respond first to make sure it is safe for the EMTs to show up. I know the ER doc here told me the EMTs here were not allowed to sedate only the doctors were allowed to do that. EMTs could strap them in for transport, get them to the ER, the doctor will examine, then determine if sedation is necessary. I know, I asked once about my daughter.

Simple case of self defense against an attack with deadly weapons. Any private citizen would have been justified in doing the same thing.

Here you have an attempt by irresponsible people to brand this as tantamount to murder and idly speculating that the officer was some kind of coward, weakling or blackguard. If this kind of thing were not extremely rare it would not be news.

Police corruption and misuse of deadly force are real things, but this is not a good example.

reply to post by parkwoods21


Maybe it was...... BUT THAT IS THEIR JOB! Lose Lose..... Protecting people comes with a mixed bag! BS excuse! Imagine your a cop walking into a house and find a baby cooked in the microwave...because the mother is bi-polar, she thought the baby was cold..... what do you do!!! Shoot her???? or take her to jail.. Its always a lose lose! THAT'S THEIR JOB! What a BS excuse! These cops need some moral and combat training! It is becoming obvious they need rubber bullets! Like a handicapped person needs a bike helmet!

reply to post by moniker


That would be how most police would handle this, and world wide, except for the most recent fascist years, and the US is getting a real dose of something ugly right now. It's the devices that have caused the problems, to a large extent, inappropriate use of them.

What I just said would be standard procedure before tasers hit the scene, and its only proper protocol. Up until very recently, any use of lethal force was put before panels and reviews and trigger happy cops were not the most common, but far and few between.

When the waters are polluted, this is the result...the whole system in the states from the top down and bottom of the barrel up is flawed, the result is this, when those in power act out of accord so will the rest of society.

Those cops that do go over the top, I have no doubt they themselves need help after witnessing a degenerate society day in day out and equally a corrupt and broken system, they lose hope and probably reach a point where they either don't care or are unable to tell the difference anymore.

reply to post by NavyDoc


omg that is soooo awful. Yes I agree, if they are that violent then they should be in special care, was kinda why I suggested for situations like that, that cops should have some medical/specialist assistance. Yeah, maybe knock out darts and net guns are all just in the movies, but don't they use darts like that for big animals when they need to go to the vet? Or is that just in things like 'Daktari' and the like?
It is a worrying situation as more and more kids become autistic on lots of different levels, whether due to vaccines or environment or genetics and are now becoming adults.
I have noticed classrooms are much more disrupted now due to ADD/ADHD and other autistic spectrum problems. It is not just a few kids now either and as they are leaving school to go off into the world they do not have a great education and often lack self control. Sadly, I can only see more of these situations happening in the future.

I contemplated not replying and just turning away from this thread but I just can't. Its so sad that just because you can show me a few youtube videos of Law Enforcement abusing their power and it becomes a general consensus that all cops are weak cowards with control issues. You take law enforcement away from this country for one hour...just one hour...nationwide. Spread the news on every media and radio channel and then lets see how well you fare. Your the sheep...we are the sheep dogs. Sure a few turn into wolves but its the nature of the beast. I just refuse to be labeled the way the majority of the posters have presented law enforcement. Its ignorance that you think police aren't highly trained in these areas. Its a huge liability to have an officer who isn't. Its just absolutely crazy the general climate on ATS for law enforcement. I'm sorry if you think I'm just sticking up for my buddies, but really I am. I know a ton of men and women who are truly there to serve and protect. They wake up everymorning, go into work, and do the right thing. Even when its someone they don't want to serve they do. From some of the things said here, you can understand how say for instance, I might not want to help you when you need me because you have called me a nazi...or insinuated that I just cover up the wrong things I see other LEO's do............... I will help though.................. I will be there to help you when you've been victimized, or need your car unlocked, or need advise on how to parent your own kids, or your wife's tire is flat and needs someone to change it, or or or or or I can go on forever. The best part about this is I know all but a very very very small percentage of Officers just like me who will do the exact same thing. Even when your being a rude asshole about me being later than you thought I should be to help you. Oh and you also mention how I work for you since you pay taxes (Wow guess that makes me my own boss I sure wish my supervisors would realize this).... Then you ask why were all of our cars parked at the Arby's (Yes we were eating) remember you were the person who came up to me and stated that you didn't want to interrupt but continued anyway and I still smilled and answered your question knowing at any second I could get that call that kept me from eating until I got off work. I could go on for days...and probably should have become a firefighter when I graduated college ( Oh you need a college degree to be a cop these days. Thats weird thought we were all highschool drop outs) since everyone likes them.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Perhaps you should educate yourself on Autism and dealing with kids on the spectrum, since the numbers are very prevalent world wide!! He was not a man! He was developmentally delayed meaning in reality the officer shot and killed an 11 or 12 year old!! Pathetic and lazy!

Pax

Nonsense. Autism runs the gamut from barely ascertainable to full on Rain Man. This individual was in a regular highschool and had a job thus, if he was truely autistic (athough that diagnosis does get thrown around an awful lot) he was certainly a high functioning one.

Regardless, he was 18, a physically full grown individual and thus was just as capable to kill or injure someone as any other adult.

My daughter is autistic and in high school, and you wouldn't know it to look at it her. BUT, she has the mentality of a 5 year old and her IQ is 50. She's only in high school because of the stupid No Child Left Behind. She's on a Second Grade level for her highest subjects, to a kindergarten for her lowest. But would you want your kindergartener going to school with a 17 year old? Of course not. But we can't hide them in the attic either and pretend they don't exist either. (Unless your my family. That's the preferred method of dealing with anyone with health problems.)

Just because this kid was fully grown and 18 with autism with a job, doesn't mean you know the extent of his mental range and all the craziness his family had to deal with that went with it. There are lots of jobs for special needs out there. Stockers, sorters, baggers, etc...

Originally posted by happyhomemaker29

Most cities a patrolman MUST respond first to make sure it is safe for the EMTs to show up. I know the ER doc here told me the EMTs here were not allowed to sedate only the doctors were allowed to do that. EMTs could strap them in for transport, get them to the ER, the doctor will examine, then determine if sedation is necessary. I know, I asked once about my daughter.

Hey, thanks for that - I didn't realize the EMTs couldn't sedate a child, but it makes sense as the meds are prescription and require a doctor. You've been through a lot, and I really do understand. Glad your daughter is doing better. Thanks so much for adding to the discussion - this is a tragedy that could have been avoided, in my opinion.

peace,
AB