Mom calls 911 to help manage autitictic teen/ cops kill him

Killing people is number one priority. Saving people is last. Those are the elites mindset and doctrine.

Instead of using tranquilizer or taser, the cops used gun and shot many times at the teen.

Such heartless attitude exists among all law enforcements around the world, because I've somewhat experienced it first hand too.

The "kid," actually a legal adult (18) in a regular high school and working a regular job, posed what could be considered a reasonable threat to the officer.

The cop was faced with a violent, armed suspect, known to resist officers, who posed a threat to his own family, had supposedly choked his own mother, refused to drop his weapons when ordered to do so, and continued to approach the officer even after being ordered to the ground. The officer had reason to believe that this guys was very dangerous, and that his own welfare was potentially at stake.

Had the suspect complied and put down his weapons, or had he complied and dropped to the ground when ordered, the officer could have handled things win less than lethal force. Unfortunately the suspect didn't comply, and we're left with the tragedy that unfolded.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The 911 call was recorded. The things the 911 dispatcher told the police was recorded. We need to hear those tapes so we can know the truth.

The Mom should have called the kids doctor, Not the cops. She needed help from someone who understood the situation, not trigger happy thugs with guns who hide behind badges.

Because the cop failed to find out the truth of the situation before he kill this teen, he should be in jail and tried for manslaughter.

So if ever you are faced with an angry man coming at you with a sharp object, we need to see why you did not try to reason with him before he stabbed you?

If you are in the mans yard, maybe you deserve it.

Reason with him!? LOL You try and reason with the person. Most rational people would try to stop him but they wouldn't try to kill him - unless they are bloodthirsty thugs. And there are quite a few out there. Who knows? Maybe you're one.

edit on 5-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Again, you do not understand the appropriate use of deadly force. This was apparent when you posted teh "shoot in the legs" nonsense. If someone comes at you with a weapon, it is not time to dance. Movies are not a learning tool. Turn off the TV.

The cop should have retreated to his car (if out) and called for special backup. If that was not possible then he could have manuevered around the car and used a taser or baton as a last resort. The kid didnt have a samauri sword and didnt need to be killed. The protocol for killing "threatening" dogs has now been applied to people.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by alfa1

 

I think you are lying if you are saying he was any kind of an actual threat to a trained officer and there was not a non-violent way to take this kid down in front of his family. They were called, they knew what they were dealing with before they got there, they could have brought a stun gun, a net, rubber bullets, he could have shot him in both legs....anything.

They were called to the scene not only by neighbors but by the kids own mother, and she called them to get some men at the house who could help her handle him - not to kill him.

There is no excuse for this though you can try and excuse the officer because he was a chicken. That's the only possible explanation. He thought an autistic kid with grass clippers was going to do him in. He got scared to death, he couldn't think of anything else to do and he fired. He should have run away rather than kill a mentally handicapped kid. The pig.

edit on 5-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

"Shot in both legs?" How do I know that your only knowlege of deadly force comes from watching television?

You don't.

I am sure if the kid ran at him with a foam bat it would have been considered threatening and the results would have been the same.

I do, otherwise you would not have made that rather ignorant comment. Foam bat is one thing, sharp, spikey objects are another. A motivated person could close with and gut you in a few seconds. Sad situation, but I'm not going to chastise the officer for making a reasonable move to defend himself and others.

If it was me, I would've taken a few steps back before I tried anything else. Shooting would be a last resort...

reply to post by newcovenant


"Press 1 to request a police unit to be sent to the wrong address. Press 2 to request a police unit to execute your dog. Press 3 to request a police unit to kill your family member. Press 4 for Spanish."

Disgusting. I don't know if I'll actually call 911 in a real emergency. Grease on a fire.

I don't care if the kid had a friggin broad sword, the cop was called to help manage the young man, and all he did was shoot him. Even if the kid had throwing stars and was throwing them at him, it would still be no excuse to shoot to kill. Taze him, throw one of those rubber ball grenades in the room, subdue him in some way, but you don't need to kill. The fact that a seizuring person starts walking toward you with hedge clippers is no reason to murder, especially when your duty is to protect and serve.

I'm sorry, I have doubted in the past that police are actually instructed to do this, but at this point I have to reconsider. I think they hire sick bastards that laugh about this stuff during down time, then when they get called into action they're so desensitized and subhuman, they go straight for their gun and ask questions (cover s*** up) later.

I know they aren't all bad, but it's kinda funny when we hear a feel-good story about a cop doing his job right, we all applaud and make it out like the guy should be given a medal of honor for doing his job like a respectable city employee. This is BS, and I'll never call the cops for any reason.

Even if you *think* you had to shoot the kid, you had to shoot to kill? You couldn't have shot him in the knee? Don't they teach cops any sort of martial arts? Hell, I took it years ago, and I never reached any sort of "mastery", but I'm pretty certain I can disarm someone if I really wanted to. I can understand shooting at someone who has a loaded gun pointed at you, but HEDGE CLIPPERS?

reply to post by samkent


Your attitude is BS! , I can not believe you are defending this uncalled for over reaction by this officer.

I have a 15yr. Old autistic boy whom becomes violent at times, especially if he feels cornered. These kids when upset and not understanding, literally feel their life is in danger. I would bet anyone this was not the first time the police had been called and so the officers knew the child was autistic and I am quite certain the mother reported this on the phone. He was 18yrs. old, she has been stating her child is autistic to many people for many years. The neighbors knew this as well! How do I know this, because these kids do not go unnoticed by anyone. Ask any of the 250 families in my neighborhood!!

From getting lost to disturbing the peace, the neighbors knew this boy. Like another person said why would a lone officer show up if they are called about a child wielding weapons!

There were many ways to deal with this situation that would have saved this boys life!! For starters you call for back up!! You don't shoot to kill a child with a known disability!! Only a trigger happy inexperienced coward would do that.

As we have seen a huge increase world wide in the number of autistic children, every officer should have at least 2 hours of training in how to diffuse this type of situation!! You know how easy that is? The art of distraction is all it takes. Ask the mother what the boy loves, then you begin asking him questions about it....

The real problem is officers like yourself. Who do you think you are comparing these kids to Chimpanzee's?? What a disgusting ignorant thing to say!! You do realize Autistic children are brain damaged!! So your post states very clearly how you feel about the disabled!! The age may say 18 and the body may be 18, but you are dealing with a child in actuality of about 12!!

My son got into an argument with his dad, and called 911, because to him this was an Emergency!! When the police arrived, my son was so frightened, he was buried beneath the clothing in our closet! That officer talked to the closet never played eyes on my son for almost an hour until he talked my son out. He did this because he had compassion and actually took the time to care!

Most police officers know that children on the Autistic spectrum are very afraid of them. If you are not aware of this
then you should be advised now, It is a common link between these kids!! From your callous remarks, I would like to know the reason you are an officer of the law? To protect only the so called "normal" people? The ones you view as acceptable or to abuse the weaker or different, the ones you consider worthless!!

Pax

To: SAMKENT.......

I believe I have made a mistake by assuming your a police officer! Further reason why you are making unintelligent comments!! You should educate yourself on Autism and be ashamed of yourself for such repugnant comments,

Pax

reply to post by NavyDoc


Perhaps you should educate yourself on Autism and dealing with kids on the spectrum, since the numbers are very prevalent world wide!! He was not a man! He was developmentally delayed meaning in reality the officer shot and killed an 11 or 12 year old!! Pathetic and lazy!

Pax

Unfortunately Police are taught that a man with a knife is more dangerous than one with a gun. A man with a knife or shears, etc, can attack so quickly and decisively that he can cover 20 feet in about 2 seconds. A vest won't protect you from a knife, usually the attacker goes for the throat or face and can seriously kill a person within seconds just with one slash. So they are taught to shoot at a knife wielding person first and ask questions later. When the caller said to stop the boy from acting up she had no idea that they were thinking either she or they were under threat of a bodily attack. You can't tell a person is autistic from looking at them. If he was frenzied, threatening, etc. he might have been some kid on meth or crack, a situation where non-lethal force might just get the cop killed. When they fire they are taught to fire at the heart and stop that person in his tracks. They don't aim for legs or arms. So DON'T call the police unless you are sure they aren't coming to protect your, or someone else's life. If you say someone is running around sick and crazy with a hammer and gardening shears, expect the worst. That was a hard story to read...and harder for the poor mother to get over. The Police today are military trained. They use way too much force to subdue people. I call them ONLY as a last resort.

Originally posted by nighthawk1954
Sorry people but it is police protocal ...If you are being attacted with a weopon (and yes a hammer can be deadly) you have a right to defend yourself.

Even if he was going to use the hammer as a weapon, why should they kill him? Why not just use a taser or pepperspray? I could understand shooting him if he had a firearm, but he didn't.

Anyways, I'm out. This thread is starting to stink of police apologists.

Here we go again.. It´s becoming a daily thing, cops murdering people. What ever happened to shooting in the leg, or using other non leathal weapons first? Are they scared by these so called zombie attacks?

What happens when people become to scared to called the cops, fearing they will be shot, beaten or raped by them?

It´s like im reading story like this every day! So what is the government doing about it?

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
The cop should have retreated to his car (if out) and called for special backup. If that was not possible then he could have manuevered around the car and used a taser or baton as a last resort. The kid didnt have a samauri sword and didnt need to be killed. The protocol for killing "threatening" dogs has now been applied to people.

Fall back and do what... wait for the police to arrive? People called 911 because they were in danger, and his job was to protect them. In doing so he found himself facing an armed suspect who approached him, refused to drop his weapons, and refused all orders to stop and get on the ground.

The guys posed a danger to the deputy, and he left the deputy few options. You don't need a samurai sword to pose a deadly threat. If someone whacked you with a hammer, with intent to kill, or swung a pair of sharp hedge clippers at you, the results can very well end up being fatal.

Originally posted by MisterFister103
I don't care if the kid had a friggin broad sword, the cop was called to help manage the young man, and all he did was shoot him. Even if the kid had throwing stars and was throwing them at him, it would still be no excuse to shoot to kill. Taze him, throw one of those rubber ball grenades in the room, subdue him in some way, but you don't need to kill. The fact that a seizuring person starts walking toward you with hedge clippers is no reason to murder, especially when your duty is to protect and serve.

Since when has it become the duty of the police department to "manage" behavior? The most qualified people to do that are actually the assailants parents, who were assumingly unable to control the situation. He had seizures, but he wasn't having one when this incident occurred, so that point is moot. You point to "protect and serve," but I'd argue that he attempted to "protect" by order the suspect to disarm, and again when he ordered him to the ground. The suspect refused.

A tazer may have been effective if the suspect was disarmed, or if it was possible to control his distance to prevent him from rushing up on you, but when the suspect remains armed and dangerous, and is closing in on you, I'd suspect that officer safety comes before the safety of a dangerous and willfully unresponsive suspect.

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by samkent

 

I have a 15yr. Old autistic boy whom becomes violent at times, especially if he feels cornered. These kids when upset and not understanding, literally feel their life is in danger. I would bet anyone this was not the first time the police had been called and so the officers knew the child was autistic and I am quite certain the mother reported this on the phone. He was 18yrs. old, she has been stating her child is autistic to many people for many years.

There were many ways to deal with this situation that would have saved this boys life!! For starters you call for back up!! You don't shoot to kill a child with a known disability!! Only a trigger happy inexperienced coward would do that.

As we have seen a huge increase world wide in the number of autistic children, every officer should have at least 2 hours of training in how to diffuse this type of situation!! You know how easy that is? The art of distraction is all it takes. Ask the mother what the boy loves, then you begin asking him questions about it....

Most police officers know that children on the Autistic spectrum are very afraid of them.

Again, the "kid" was 18 years old. He was big enough to pose a credible threat, regardless of actual mental faculty. He was enrolled in a regular high school, and held a job in the community, which leads me to believe that his case was less severe. Regardless, you know as well as I that persons afflicted with autism can become violent at times, and when they are in such a state, they can very well be dangerous. Of the people involved with this case, his mother should have known how to bring him down, but even her efforts were ineffective, as she was one to call for police assistance after sustaining injuries that left her hospitalized afterwards. I'm sure officers receive training for special needs situations, but they can't possibly be expected to know how to control every unique situation.

****

My question to the members of ATS is: If he was armed with a handgun, would your view of the tragic outcome change? If he has a loaded firearm, would the officer have been justified in using deadly force after orders to drop the weapon and get on the ground were ignored and the suspect continued to close of the officer? Why or why not?

A violent man with a hammer is no different, and I'd dare say that a single hard blow to the head with a hammer would be capable of killing faster than a 9mm shot in the abdomen. A swipe with sharp hedge clippers can likewise be extremely deadly considering blade length.

Originally posted by Xaphan
Even if he was going to use the hammer as a weapon, why should they kill him? Why not just use a taser or pepperspray? I could understand shooting him if he had a firearm, but he didn't.

Tasers and pepper spray would just piss him off or slow him down, not stop him. In a life threatening situation you can't afford to take that chance.

Originally posted by hesse

What happens when people become to scared to called the cops, fearing they will be shot, beaten or raped by them?

Then people will learn to take responsibility for their own personal security rather than rely on the police for protection. Unfortunately many will learn the hard way that "a shot in the leg" isn't the best solution in a life & death situation.

reply to post by ~Vixen~


Yes thats what I think, but then there is no more use for police officers. Of course shooting in the leg is not for life or death situations. If a guy is unarmed or just carrying a stick, the cop should not shot him in the head right?

Originally posted by hesse
reply to post by ~Vixen~

 

Yes thats what I think, but then there is no more use for police officers. Of course shooting in the leg is not for life or death situations. If a guy is unarmed or just carrying a stick, the cop should not shot him in the head right?

I absolutely agree. Different responses for different threat levels. A stick can still be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands, but most likely would be best served with a non lethal type of force like pepper spray, or *maybe* a tazer in extreme situations.

reply to post by ~Vixen~


Funny that we talk about that here on the forum but the police somehow don´t get it? I would not even post to a thread like this if these topics didn't pop up here daily. I just wonder why the government doesn´t seem to do anything. I guess it just comes down to the policeforce taking in anyone they can (lower education levels and such), they also receive less training. At the end of the day it´s a political issue that screams for attention, but doesnt seem to get it.


poor world, seems were fu**** from all angles....