Jesus was a "Muslim"

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by adjensen

 

I first read about it here and one other place before I ever found out that Jack Chick had published some series about it.

www.redicecreations.com...

If we wanted to get technical, we could created a conspiracy out of anything.

That's why I think we should just let the Bible and the Qu'ran speak for themselves.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

maybe you dont get what i want to point out. Your will take Bible as authority but deny that it was compiled by an agenda holding church?

edit on 2-10-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

Let me spin this, as you have done....

"Maybe you don't get what I want to point out. You will take Quran as authority but deny that it was compiled by an agenda holding Islamic society?"

Who compiled the Quran?

The Uthmanic Compilation of the Quran.

Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sha’m and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Quran, so he said to Uthman,’Chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before’. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa, saying, ‘Send us the manuscripts of the Quran so that we may compile the Quranic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you ‘. Hafsa sent it to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid ibn Thabit, Abdullah bin az Zubair, Sa’id bin al-As, and Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Qurraishi men,’ In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Quran, then write it in the dialect of the Qurraish as the Quran was revealed in their tongue’. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Quranic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, P. 479). For the first time in the official works of the Hadith literature we read of other codices that were being compiled, in addition to the one done by Zaid for Abu Bakr, and that these were widely accepted and well-known, certainly far more so than the codex of Zaid which by this time was in the private possession of Hafsah. While some of those texts consisted only of a selection of portions, it is clearly stated that others were complete codices of the whole Quran.

Why did Uthman burn Quranic verses? I thought the Quran was preserved by Allah. Was there not an agenda on the part of Uthman? Of course there was, because Uthman was a caliph.

The Uthmanic recension of the Quran may well have established only one text as the authorised text for the whole Muslim world, but it simultaneously eliminated a wealth of codices which were widely accepted in the various provinces and which had as much right as Zaid’s to be recognised as authentic copies. At-Tabari records (1.6.2952) that the people said to Uthman ” The Quran was in many books, and you have now discredited them all but one,” indicating that Zaid’s text was not considered to enjoy any preference over them in authenticity or authority. Nevertheless, even though the codices were eliminated, the variant readings between them were recorded and well-known c/f Abdullah ibn Mas’ud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b.

Hmm, it appears to me Uthman had an agenda. Have you ever wondered what Zaid's texts may have said? And since you will never know, Uthman won in his agenda.

reply to post by borntowatch


the same way jesus was a jew and jews reject the trinity. you cant say muhammad was bad for murder ifthe holy trinity is all in one then jesus murdered villages at a time. im not christian jew or moslem so i have no bias to any but i can say multiple christians have told me god isnt all good and has released his wrath for not obeying his command...so go read the bible and tell me how your religion is more peaceful than any other. on a side not christianity is responsible for more religious based murder than any other religion

reply to post by WarminIndy


What i personally think about Quran is personal.
but i wouldnt claim it as authority here.
Using once own scripture to claim superiority is arrogant.

reply to post by babloyi

PS to Determined: Nobody claimed Jesus was a liar. The claim the muslims make is that the Bible was corrupted. And honestly, there is LOADS of historical evidence that this is true.

In all honesty, I could say the Qu'ran was corrupted too since none of the originals survived.

No, there is not LOADS of historical evidence that the Bible was corrupted. It's a conspiracy theory.

As noted at the beginning of this chapter, in addition to the many thousands of New Testament manuscripts, there are over 86,000 quotations of the New Testament in the early church fathers. There are also New Testament quotations in thousands of early church Lectionaries (worship books). There are enough quotations from the early church fathers that even if we did not have a single copy of the Bible, scholars could still reconstruct all but 11 verses of the entire New Testament from material written within 150 to 200 years from the time of Christ.

The Dead Sea Scrolls (found in 1947) prove the accuracy of the transmission of the Bible.

home.earthlink.net...

reply to post by logical7

To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better. But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?

In my personal opinion, Muhammad was rebelling against the notion that Isaac's descendants would be the ones who were able to lay claim to Abraham's inheritance. Although God promised to make the Ishamelites a great nation, He made it clear that the inheritance was meant for Isaac's descendants.

I'm sure there were plenty of Ishmaelites who were willing to fight for what they thought should be theirs and follow Muhammad to claim it for themselves, regardless of what enemies he made in the process. He had to discredit Jesus, as Jesus was a descendant of Isaac.

Just like we see today. The Middle East is still fighting over the inheritance.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

The internet is full of wrong information. You're the one who brought it up and are propagating it. It'd be like me linking to any random website that makes any random absurd claim "The jews caused the holocaust" (for example), and when pointed out that it is stupid, I say "Tell that to the website that said it!".

By gum, you're right! Hitler discovered America!

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better. But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?

In my personal opinion, Muhammad was rebelling against the notion that Isaac's descendants would be the ones who were able to lay claim to Abraham's inheritance. Although God promised to make the Ishamelites a great nation, He made it clear that the inheritance was meant for Isaac's descendants.

I'm sure there were plenty of Ishmaelites who were willing to fight for what they thought should be theirs and follow Muhammad to claim it for themselves, regardless of what enemies he made in the process. He had to discredit Jesus, as Jesus was a descendant of Isaac.

Just like we see today. The Middle East is still fighting over the inheritance.

ya that makes sense(sarcasm) and it also makes sense to have a chapter on Mary, defend her honour.
And ya discredit Jesus(pbuh) by accepting virgin birth, miracles and that he is Messiah.
Just not agreeing to a blasphemy that he is god, interestingly Jews stand with muslims on this. They use the same alleged divinity claim of christians to deny him as Messiah.
Jews know their text and know Messiah is not god and neither can Messiah die till he fulfils his job.
Christians say he is messiah, god and also died(wow dint leave anything)
Muslims say he is messiah, not god, dint die
.
I wonder who makes more sense..

reply to post by shuar911


Wrong god, shuar91.....YWHW is not allah and never will be.

Jesus DID the will of the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the moon god/war god that islam is calling allah.

Whoever came up with the stupid idea that Jesus was a muslim is guided by satan the deceiver.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by shuar911

 

Wrong god, shuar91.....YWHW is not allah and never will be.

Jesus DID the will of the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the moon god/war god that islam is calling allah.

Whoever came up with the stupid idea that Jesus was a muslim is guided by satan the deceiver.

thanx for your views.
Do you know, the name YWHW came when moses(pbuh) asked Him His name and He told "I AM" which could be "I AM WHO I AM" or less politely "Mind you own business"
.
.
And christians and jews in arabia before Muhammad(pbuh) were using the name Allah for YWHW. but maybe they were less learned than you.

No no no....

Jesus was a Buddhist.

The Lost Years of Jesus

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
No no no....

Jesus was a Buddhist.

The Lost Years of Jesus

Sigh. What i find amazing is how Jesus managed to do all that traveling when he would have been learning his adopted father's trade of carpentery as an apprentice so he could take over for Joseph when Joseph was too old to do it or deceased.

reply to post by logical7

And christians and jews in arabia before Muhammad(pbuh) were using the name Allah for YWHW. but maybe they were less learned than you.

Allah is not God's name, that is retarded. Do you really think God's name is God?



Interesting that God would command Moses and Israel to proclaim his name to the nations but he didn't care for Muhammad to know what his name was :shk:. You guys don't pick up on that kind of stuff do you? Oh the irony and the people who are totally clueless. If your God's name is God then your God is the semitic deity of Fortune Gad.

Originally posted by logical7

ya that makes sense(sarcasm) and it also makes sense to have a chapter on Mary, defend her honour.

And ya discredit Jesus(pbuh) by accepting virgin birth, miracles and that he is Messiah.

Muhammad wasn't fool enough to change the whole story, so not to be entirely unbelievable. Besides, Muhammad knew that people witnessed miracles coming from Jesus, when he himself was not capable of performing any himself.

Muhammad discredited Jesus when he mocked the whole resurrection story. What proof did Muhammad have that life after death existed?

Just not agreeing to a blasphemy that he is god, interestingly Jews stand with muslims on this.

And all of those living in the Middle East are paying for that, aren't they? The Sunnis fighting Shiites. All of the Muslims ganging up on Israel. The hotbed of turmoil in the world today.

Jews know their text and know Messiah is not god and neither can Messiah die till he fulfils his job.

Except the "Messiah" himself and the majority of the New Testament told us that Jesus did die. That was Jesus' message. To preach "the kingdom of God". To preach that life after death existed. The only way for Jesus to prove it was to die and be resurrected in his incorruptible body before he ascended to Heaven and have others witness it.

By the way, other than conquering the Anti-Christ, what is the rest of the "Messiah's" job before his "death", according to the Qu'ran? What happens after the "Messiah" dies? Why on earth would Jesus be buried next to Muhammad when he does?

Christians say he is messiah, god and also died(wow dint leave anything)
Muslims say he is messiah, not god, dint die
.
I wonder who makes more sense..

You tell me. How much sense does it make to claim that Jesus was born of a virgin birth and performed miracles, but still hold Muhammad's words over Jesus', when Muhammad did none of those things?

reply to post by logical7


I probably am more learned than they

However, it is the intent behind the name....a rose is a rose by any other name. Whether arabs (Jew or Christian) speaking their native language say allah or YWHW is irrelevant to this discussion. The false prophet that made up islam traded the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for the false moon/war god. Look at the symbol for islam. It cannot be denied.

reply to post by adjensen

The internet is quite hilarious like that...I'd link more links, but the problem is, this being a conspiracy site, many people would actually believe the stuff (many here probably DO believe the jews caused the holocaust, for example).

vigilantcitizen.com...
For something actually written seriously

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by logical7

 

I probably am more learned than they

However, it is the intent behind the name....a rose is a rose by any other name. Whether arabs (Jew or Christian) speaking their native language say allah or YWHW is irrelevant to this discussion. The false prophet that made up islam traded the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for the false moon/war god. Look at the symbol for islam. It cannot be denied.

Look at the first link in my signature, I explore who Allah really is in that thread.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by gladtobehere
I dont know about Moslem, but he as an Arab.

Muslim.

In some parts of the world they ARE still called Moslem's.... during the Ottoman Empire days for example they where called Moslem's. Just sayin'
PEACE!!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Look at the first link in my signature, I explore who Allah really is in that thread.

Yes, then come to an abrupt stop and totally ignore my posts when you can't answer any of my points.

PS to 1PLA1: The symbol you are referring to was the symbol of the Ottoman Turks, which they took from the Byzantian Christians. It has nothing to do with Islam. So your point is void. Also, if you wish to go along that path, YHWH was supposedly a mountain/war god as well originally.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

And christians and jews in arabia before Muhammad(pbuh) were using the name Allah for YWHW. but maybe they were less learned than you.

Allah is not God's name, that is retarded. Do you really think God's name is God?

Interesting that God would command Moses and Israel to proclaim his name to the nations but he didn't care for Muhammad to know what his name was :shk:. You guys don't pick up on that kind of stuff do you? Oh the irony and the people who are totally clueless. If your God's name is God then your God is the semitic deity of Fortune Gad.

edit on 2-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

I know your thoughts about it. Anyone who has authority to decide what are God's Names is Only God.
And He has given 99 Names and Allah is one of them, Ar Rahman being another.

JESUS was many things - and all of these beyond any religion and yet central to the heart of them all!

∞LOVE∞

mayallsoulsbefree