Jesus was a "Muslim"

reply to post by babloyi


Wikipedia:

Ancient Near EastThe star and crescent appear in combination in finds from in and around ancient Palestine. It has been associated with the Moabites (14th or early 13th – 6th century BC[5]), as the symbol or symbols appear on what are thought to be Moabite name seals.[6] Crescents appearing together with a star or stars are a common feature of Sumerian iconography, the crescent usually being associated with the moon god Sin (Nanna to the Sumerians) and the star (often identified as Venus) with Ishtar (Inanna to the Sumerians). However, in this context, there is a third element often seen, that being the sun disk of Shamash. Academic discussion of a star or stars together with crescents in Sumerian representations does not always clearly indicate if they appear in isolation (the "star and crescent" as such) or as part of a triad of symbols, "the three celestial emblems, the sun disk of Shamash (Utu to the Sumerians), the crescent of Sin (Nanna), and the star of Ishtar (Inanna to the Sumerians)"[7] or "the crescent of Sin (the moon god), the star of Ishtar and the ray of Shamash".[8] Nevertheless, later use of the star and crescent by the Parthians, and other Iranian dynasties is often traced to earlier use in Mesopotamia. As one scholar observed, "[t]he Parthian king Mithradates I conquered Mesopotamia around 147 BC, and Susa in about 140 BC A later Parthian king, Orodes II (58-38 BC), issued coins at Susa and elsewhere which display a star and crescent on the obverse. The succeeding ruler, Phraates IV (38-3/2 BC), minted coins showing either a star alone or a star with crescent moon. In representing the star and crescent on their coins the Parthians thus adopted traditional symbols used in Mesopotamia and Elam more than two millennia before their own arrival in those parts."[9] Along these lines, some scholars maintain that later use of the symbol arose from Babylonian mythology in which the juxtaposition of Sin (moon god, father of time) and Shamash (supreme ruling sun god, judge of heaven and earth) was a metaphor for the cosmic powers given to the Babylonian king to rule

I seen nothing referring to Christians here.

reply to post by logical7

I know your thoughts about it. Anyone who has authority to decide what are God's Names is Only God.

He did decide what his NAME is, he gave it to Moses and he gave only one name. and that name was not Allah. Nice try deflecting, but titles are not names. He only has ONE NAME.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
No no no....

Jesus was a Buddhist.

The Lost Years of Jesus

Sigh. What i find amazing is how Jesus managed to do all that traveling when he would have been learning his adopted father's trade of carpentery as an apprentice so he could take over for Joseph when Joseph was too old to do it or deceased.

What I find amazing is the fact that you don't realize that this is a joke....

*face palm* right back atcha....


*sigh*

In fact, this entire thread is a joke. Islam wasn't around until 610.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Look at the first link in my signature, I explore who Allah really is in that thread.

Yes, then come to an abrupt stop and totally ignore my posts when you can't answer any of my points.

PS to 1PLA1: The symbol you are referring to was the symbol of the Ottoman Turks, which they took from the Byzantian Christians. It has nothing to do with Islam. So your point is void. Also, if you wish to go along that path, YHWH was supposedly a mountain/war god as well originally.

A picture is worth a thousand words, more pictures are worth even more . You want to deny the crescent moon was only a recent addition to Islam, i cry b.s. Islam was founded by an ARAB, who was from the Quraysh pagan tribe that walked the Kaaba 7 times for remission of sins (idolatry) and worship and pray to a bloody rock, and kiss it and touch it and weep all over it.

The crescent moon and star has ben a part of arabic culture for thousands of years, even before Gideon's time. Yes that's right, Gideon an israelite came into contact with that symbol before.

Judges 8:21-22

21 So Zebah and Zalmunna said, “Rise yourself, and kill us; for as a man is, so is his strength.” So Gideon arose and killed Zebah and Zalmunna, and took the crescent ornaments that were on their camels’ necks.

22 Then the men of Israel said to Gideon, “Rule over us, both you and your son, and your grandson also; for you have delivered us from the hand of Midian.”

The 2 kings Gideon killed were from Midia which is modern day Saudi Arabia, right there where the Kaaba is. So the crescent moon has been apart of both arabic and ishmaelite culture for quite a while.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

I know your thoughts about it. Anyone who has authority to decide what are God's Names is Only God.

He did decide what his NAME is, he gave it to Moses and he gave only one name. and that name was not Allah. Nice try deflecting, but titles are not names. He only has ONE NAME.

You have a strange attitude, how you know "He only has ONE NAME"?
Besides why did Jesus(pbuh) addressed him as FATHER? even in Lord's prayer"our FATHER.." so if ONE NAME only, then the prayer needs to be altered.
The folly is very obvious as, if God said to moses(pbuh) "I AM" and that sounded "YWHW" in hebrew(hope that was the language at him time but not the point)
if GOD would have talked in english to moses(pbuh) then you would be insisting the ONLY NAME IS "IAM"

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You're just going to repeat that continuously like a mantra? A picture without context is worth nothing. The geographical location of the Midians is not known. Again, to address your total ignorance of Islam, it is mentioned in the Quran as well, as well....mentioned how it was totally destroyed because of the inequities of its people. Wasn't Mecca or Medina or anything related to Islam, sorry. And no, there was no "Crescent and star" symbology in Islam.

How about a "picture" (since words and books seem to be a bit too hard) of any islamic artifact or location that involves a crescent and star that can be proven to exist during Muhammad or his immediate successors' time? Heck, any from BEFORE the Ottomans Turks became muslim?

You won't find it, because it doesn't exist.

PS: This probably belongs in your thread. Where you can address the points I specifically mentioned in response to your points. Or you could just ignore them and keep going "LOOK AT THE PRETTY PICTURES!"

Jesus was a "Muslim"

that's absurd. As was already pointed out, Islam didn't get invented until hundreds of years after Christ. Not only that .. but Jesus is GOD INCARNATE and that is something that the Muslims just don't believe. There is NO WAY Jesus was a Muslim.

reply to post by babloyi

You're just going to repeat that continuously like a mantra? A picture without context is worth nothing. The geographical location of the Midians is not known.

Actually the geographical location of Midia is known, quite well in the bible. Jubal al'Lawz (Mt. Sinai) is located in Midia which is modern Saudi Arabia. Moses' father-in-law was a Midianite, while Moses was attending his father-in-law's sheep herds he met God first as the burning bush. The burning bush is at Jubal al'Lawz in Saudi Arabia which is part of Greater Israel, that God gave Israel long ago.



Notice wear Israel crossed the Red Sea? It's called the Gulf of Aquaba now but back then there was no Gulf of Aquaba, it was all Red Sea and still is Red Sea.

We know this is Mt. Sinai because the altar of the golden calf is still there, as is the foundation of the tabernacle and it's altar which hasn't been cut by any tools as God commanded and remains of burnt goat kids and lambs were found. The grave markers of the 3000 Moses executed for worshipping the golden calf is also there. There are also numerous petroglyphs carved into the rocks of Menorah, and pretroglyph imprints of sandaled feet where God told them everywhere they walked belonged to them.



Petroglyphs from the altar of the golden calf.



Mt. Sinai (Jubal al'Lawz).

reply to post by FlyersFan


You refuse to investigate what is the "Meaning" of islam. Islam was established at the hand of muhammad. islam was there since adam. You're absurd statement is quite ridiculous.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
No no no....

Jesus was a Buddhist.

The Lost Years of Jesus

Sigh. What i find amazing is how Jesus managed to do all that traveling when he would have been learning his adopted father's trade of carpentery as an apprentice so he could take over for Joseph when Joseph was too old to do it or deceased.

What I find amazing is the fact that you don't realize that this is a joke....

*face palm* right back atcha....

*sigh*

In fact, this entire thread is a joke. Islam wasn't around until 610.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)

Well you didn't exactly use any emotes beyond a thumbs up, i ain't a mind reader! Emotes like:

:bnghd:, :shk:, , , ,

Ha ha ha ha ha ha I don't know what to say without the powers to be removing my comment and penalizing me.

reply to post by borntowatch


You have several errors in your statements.
1. Trinity is not a Biblical teaching. The word does not appear anywhere in the Bible. Never is the Spirit of God spoken of as a person. Trinity is a pagan teaching the predates even Abraham. All Christian groups do not accept the teaching of trinity. It would be a correct teaching to deny trinity.
2. "Fundamentally Jesus taught love over hate, self sacrifice over strength. So? That's what Islam teaches too.
3. "Jesus was also a Jew, so all Muslims are then Jews first, so cant be Muslims??? " Islam is not a race or a religion. It is a life of submission to Gods will. One who is living a life of submission to Gods will is a Muslim. Anyone anywhere can be a Muslim. Islam is not just for one race of people like Judaism. What your race, color, nation of birth, sex language etc. has any bearing on accepting Islam. Many "Jews" have accepted Islam throughout the ages.
4. Being all knowing all powerful is what God is. What does your statement "How can there be only one God and that God be all seeing and knowing and ever present. How can one god have the knowledge of love if there is nothing to love." mean anyway? This is a stupid statement that says nothing. In fact the rest of your comment is just as meaningless.
I think you understand the whole article just as you misunderstand your own religion.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Jesus was a "Muslim"

that's absurd. As was already pointed out, Islam didn't get invented until hundreds of years after Christ. Not only that .. but Jesus is GOD INCARNATE and that is something that the Muslims just don't believe. There is NO WAY Jesus was a Muslim.

Jesus(pbuh) is NOT god incarnate. Thats Exactly what the muslim stand is. And as Jesus did not worship himself or asked anyone to worship him. He had a good idea about his belief which is same as muslim belief. christianity was invented after he was gone, verses fabricated to invent trinity, even bible scholars threw out the only verse about trinity as a forgery and lets see what Jesus(pbuh) has to say to people who still practice the same..
..
Matthew (7:22-23)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast
out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.

reply to post by Anonymousman

Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than is Muhammad. He is called the ‘Word of God’ and the ‘Spirit of God’, but most often, ‘the son of Mary’. In the Quranic narrative he is not crucified.

And yet Muhammad claims Allah has no partner. Uh, Spirit of God = God. Word of God = God. Muslim say he is not the Son of God and yet even the Hebrew bible proclaims God does indeed have a Son.

Proverbs 30:4

4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

You know how many people saying theyre muslim have denied what you said quoted above?

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Jesus was a "Muslim"

that's absurd. As was already pointed out, Islam didn't get invented until hundreds of years after Christ. Not only that .. but Jesus is GOD INCARNATE and that is something that the Muslims just don't believe. There is NO WAY Jesus was a Muslim.

Jesus(pbuh) is NOT god incarnate. Thats Exactly what the muslim stand is. And as Jesus did not worship himself or asked anyone to worship him. He had a good idea about his belief which is same as muslim belief. christianity was invented after he was gone, verses fabricated to invent trinity, even bible scholars threw out the only verse about trinity as a forgery and lets see what Jesus(pbuh) has to say to people who still practice the same..
..
Matthew (7:22-23)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast
out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.

Wut? Jesus wasn't worshipped and didn't accept worship? Boy do i have news for you, not only was he worshipped, but he accepted it and did not rebuke those who did worship him.

Jesus worshipped as God

John 9:38
John 20:28
Matthew 8:2
Matthew 9:18
Matthew 15:25
Matthew 28:9
Matthew 28:17
Hebrews 1:6 (by angels)

Lets see what God has to say about him being worshipped:

Isaiah 42:8

8 I am the Lord, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.

The biggest one from the Decalogue:

Exodus 34:14

14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)

So in order for Jesus to be worshipped and it not be idolatry was if he really is God, in person. Being righteous, he would have rebuked those worshipping him i9f he was not God yet he did not do so. In fact Jesus goes on to claim that whatever belongs to the Father (including worship) belongs to him.

John 17:10

10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.

I can go on and on. Jesus is God incarnate.

John 5:39-47

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jesus speaking above in John 5. Now the new testament had not been written yet, the only scriptures in existence at that time was the Torah/Tenach. The only One Moses wrote about was God, the only one he glorified in the Torah and wrote about, the Savior.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

To be polite, i'l let you have that and ya now i get you better. But then why would Muhammad(pbuh) twist bible and make getting followers harder? As if they dint have enough trouble from pagan meccans. And later annoy jews in medina and make them enemies?

In my personal opinion, Muhammad was rebelling against the notion that Isaac's descendants would be the ones who were able to lay claim to Abraham's inheritance. Although God promised to make the Ishamelites a great nation, He made it clear that the inheritance was meant for Isaac's descendants.

I'm sure there were plenty of Ishmaelites who were willing to fight for what they thought should be theirs and follow Muhammad to claim it for themselves, regardless of what enemies he made in the process. He had to discredit Jesus, as Jesus was a descendant of Isaac.

Just like we see today. The Middle East is still fighting over the inheritance.

ya that makes sense(sarcasm) and it also makes sense to have a chapter on Mary, defend her honour.
And ya discredit Jesus(pbuh) by accepting virgin birth, miracles and that he is Messiah.
Just not agreeing to a blasphemy that he is god, interestingly Jews stand with muslims on this. They use the same alleged divinity claim of christians to deny him as Messiah.
Jews know their text and know Messiah is not god and neither can Messiah die till he fulfils his job.
Christians say he is messiah, god and also died(wow dint leave anything)
Muslims say he is messiah, not god, dint die
.
I wonder who makes more sense..

The Quran even has a surah about a yellow cow. What is wrong with this surah..is that the cow in question was actually RED and for the RED HEIFER CEREMONY. How could Mohammed miss that one....

Wait....Mohammed never wrote the quran, his followers did..So Uthman got it wrong.

I ain't giving Mohammed credit for the Quran, because he didn't write it...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Anonymousman

 

Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than is Muhammad. He is called the ‘Word of God’ and the ‘Spirit of God’, but most often, ‘the son of Mary’. In the Quranic narrative he is not crucified.

And yet Muhammad claims Allah has no partner. Uh, Spirit of God = God. Word of God = God. Muslim say he is not the Son of God and yet even the Hebrew bible proclaims God does indeed have a Son.

Proverbs 30:4

4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

You know how many people saying theyre muslim have denied what you said quoted above?

a word of God is word of God, whenever He intends a thing He says "BE" and it is.
.
And lets take a look at this..
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Its seems that the above verses are a rhetorical question to denote something impossible, not talking about God.
Its amazing that you can quote verses out of context even from bible

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Anonymousman

 

Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than is Muhammad. He is called the ‘Word of God’ and the ‘Spirit of God’, but most often, ‘the son of Mary’. In the Quranic narrative he is not crucified.

And yet Muhammad claims Allah has no partner. Uh, Spirit of God = God. Word of God = God. Muslim say he is not the Son of God and yet even the Hebrew bible proclaims God does indeed have a Son.

Proverbs 30:4

4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

You know how many people saying theyre muslim have denied what you said quoted above?

a word of God is word of God, whenever He intends a thing He says "BE" and it is.
.
And lets take a look at this..
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Its seems that the above verses are a rhetorical question to denote something impossible, not talking about God.
Its amazing that you can quote verses out of context even from bible

I didn't quote anything out of context. Questions have answers. Proverbs 30:4 tells you plainly God has a Son and even asks you what his name is. You're going to sit there and play like you don't see the questions right there in your face, you are more blind than a bat.

Can't think up a comeback for Jesus being worshipped? Going to try the "bible is a corrupted text" trick? Yeah you would when faced with the truth embrace a lie instead.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


the verses in NT that you mentioned contain words like 'worshipped' ya but they also could be 'knelt' 'prayed' it doesnt prove anything, as you may know,old english has quotes like"i pray thee"
and from OT, ya thats Allah talking about Himself

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Proverbs 30:4 is not talking about God. It is challenging that nobody went to heaven or came down, nobody could hold wind or collect water in cloth, and if you disagree then tell the name of that person or even his son's name if u can.