Whats your thoughts on the rapture , before during or after the great tribulation ?

reply to post by 1PLA1

These are they who have come out of Great Tribulation Rev.7 verse 14. There is a distinction between the Great Tribulation and Wrath of God . in Rev. chapter 14 which parallels Rev. chapter 7 the Reaping of the harvest that some relate to the Rapture occurs after Babylon has fallen . This Babylon I associate to the Global Government and Beast System or commerce infrastructure .

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I have looked as well as many others for the so called Rapture . It clearly does not exist in deed or word . There will be no people snatched from the earth in mystery . When Christ said he will come like a thief in the night , I come quickly and surely I come quickly He was talking about the instance that He appears will surprise those who are doing other than the Masters will . When he comes in the clouds and with the sound of a trump gathers his Elect he will be visible to all .When he appears your fate is sealed and yes he does come quickly . This happens after the Mark of the Beast according to Mathew 24 and in Revelations 14 where it refers to the fall of Babylon before the Lord takes the elect .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Pre-tribulation Rapture could very well be the thing that destroys the faith of many supposing that Christ did not find them in the Book of Life or that the whole Christian faith was a lie because they were not taken in the time that they supposed should have been the rapture . The Antichrist will be very convincing and the anti Jesus rhetoric will be extreme . Jesus knew this and sent us a parable of the Ten Virgins . Everything Jesus said was ENDURE UNTIL THE END . Why would He say that in Matthew 24 verse 13 and then in the parable of the 10 Virgins . I equate the Pretribbulation Rapturist with the 5 Foolish Virgins and Jesus did too!

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I have looked as well as many others for the so called Rapture . It clearly does not exist in deed or word . There will be no people snatched from the earth in mystery . When Christ said he will come like a thief in the night , I come quickly and surely I come quickly He was talking about the instance that He appears will surprise those who are doing other than the Masters will . When he comes in the clouds and with the sound of a trump gathers his Elect he will be visible to all .When he appears your fate is sealed and yes he does come quickly . This happens after the Mark of the Beast according to Mathew 24 and in Revelations 14 where it refers to the fall of Babylon before the Lord takes the elect .

No, clearly the parable of the 10 virgins (5 wise, 5 foolish) clearly alludes to a rapture event, the wise virgins who kept enough oil to last the night were taken away, the foolish virigins who didn;t keep enough oil to last the night were left behind begging the groom to take them with him to the marriage supper. Also the 7 churches are the 7 lamps in the Menorah in Revelation 1. The menorah was located in the temple when it was here on earth, in Revelation 1 the menorah is in heaven in the throneroom which is in the temple in heaven. The Holy of Holies was God's throne room on earth, the Ark of the Covenant was his chair, the temple that was here was made to the exact dimensions God gave to Moses at Mt. Sinai. You're thinking like a westerner, all the answers are embedded in the rituals and dress rehearsals Israel had to perform, right down even to how men and women were married and the betrothal process.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

There are 4 resurrections, the first resurrection took place when Yeshua rose from the grave, in which those who believed the Savior would come were raised up that same day with him (the firstfruits) and this is recorded as people in Jerusalem saw the dead walking around and conversing with those who were alive and their relatives. The second resurrection comes in the harpazo (rapture) . . .

[color=DarkSlateGray]..Looking at the one place in the New Testament that describes a rapture (underlined), it says God will be bringing the people who had previously died in Christ along with Him to this event.

. . . God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep as Christians. For we tell you this by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not go ahead of those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

[color=DarkSlateGray]..My interpretation sees this section of 1 Thess. as a combination of at least one other pre-existing tradition current at the time, with Paul's newer version which makes it distinctly Christian.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..The part that would have been traditional is about a resurrection with the "trumpet of God" and the summons, "the voice of the archangel" to judgment. The important thing I am trying to highlight is how that resurrection event could be independent from the "rapture" event. One way to think of it and something easy for me considering my Seventh Day Adventist background, is that those previously dead people who are described as being with Christ had already passed through judgment and are awaiting the living to be brought up to face the same thing, then to join them.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..So what I see is Paul taking into account the presupposition in the mind of his hearers, of a traditional "Last Day" and saying it is a mystical event on another level of existence beyond or view here on earth, and in a way those who have passed are just as alive as we are, or maybe more, because they are already now what we will become, in some hypothetical future time which may not ever actually happen in this world since it is not so essential seeing how everyone is fated to die through one way or another in this life in this world in its current condition.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You have clearly missed my point . Jesus was giving the 10 virgins to us to tell us that the 5 foolish virgins were like unto the Pretribulation rapturous . They were not prepared to endure . He will not be coming for that Pre Trib crew .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You have clearly missed my point . Jesus was giving the 10 virgins to us to tell us that the 5 foolish virgins were like unto the Pretribulation rapturous . They were not prepared to endure . He will not be coming for that Pre Trib crew .

So the "pre-trib" folk are the ones sleeping and not ready to go in the parable?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Do you think those who miss this pre-trib rapture get another chance?

Did the five foolish virgins get another chance?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You have clearly missed my point . Jesus was giving the 10 virgins to us to tell us that the 5 foolish virgins were like unto the Pretribulation rapturous . They were not prepared to endure . He will not be coming for that Pre Trib crew .

So the "pre-trib" folk are the ones sleeping and not ready to go in the parable?

Yes, they are not worried about missing the second coming. They believe there will be a third.

reply to post by truejew


t was explained to you that there is just one second coming, and that "coming" means when Christ returns to Earth. The same way the apostles saw Him ascend in a cloud. The rapture verse say we meet Him in the air and go to be with Him. There isn't a verse that says He returns to set foot on Earth at the rapture. Why do you feel the need to purposely misrepresent someones position and statements?

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You have clearly missed my point . Jesus was giving the 10 virgins to us to tell us that the 5 foolish virgins were like unto the Pretribulation rapturous . They were not prepared to endure . He will not be coming for that Pre Trib crew .

So the "pre-trib" folk are the ones sleeping and not ready to go in the parable?

Yes, they are not worried about missing the second coming. They believe there will be a third.

So the people who are awake, actively looking for His return are the post-trib guys? And the pre-trib folk are sleeping and not looking for His return??

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Do you think those who miss this pre-trib rapture get another chance?

Did the five foolish virgins get another chance?

Elijah and the other witness (Enoch?) won't be sitting on their hands during that time period. Pre-trib or post-trib we should be ready at any time. Beleiving in one or the other has no effect on salvation.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

t was explained to you that there is just one second coming, and that "coming" means when Christ returns to Earth. The same way the apostles saw Him ascend in a cloud. The rapture verse say we meet Him in the air and go to be with Him. There isn't a verse that says He returns to set foot on Earth at the rapture. Why do you feel the need to purposely misrepresent someones position and statements?

Calling three comings, two comings, does not make it two comings. Just like calling three gods, one god, does not make them one god.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Do you think those who miss this pre-trib rapture get another chance?

Did the five foolish virgins get another chance?

Elijah and the other witness (Enoch?) won't be sitting on their hands during that time period. Pre-trib or post-trib we should be ready at any time. Beleiving in one or the other has no effect on salvation.

edit on 21-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

It can have a huge effect on salvation. Satan will use any advantage he can to deceive.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

t was explained to you that there is just one second coming, and that "coming" means when Christ returns to Earth. The same way the apostles saw Him ascend in a cloud. The rapture verse say we meet Him in the air and go to be with Him. There isn't a verse that says He returns to set foot on Earth at the rapture. Why do you feel the need to purposely misrepresent someones position and statements?

Calling three comings, two comings, does not make it two comings. Just like calling three gods, one god, does not make them one god.

Because one of those comings He never comes to Earth, we meet Him in the air. So why would I call that the 2 nd coming of Christ? At the 2nd advent He comes to Earth and stays, on Earth, setting up His kingdom.. on Earth. So why would I call Christ's coming to just the air without setting His feet on Earth a 2nd advent? At His incarnation He lived, walked talked, ate and slept on Earth.

What is so difficult about understanding that at the rapture He doesn't come to Earth? We meet Him in the air.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Let me say it again . The 5 Foolish Virgins must figure they are pretty hot and the Bride Groom wouldn't dare wait to pick them up . They believe that the Bride Groom will not delay his arrival to meet them . I could envision them making fun of the 5 Wise Virgins who may not have expected favorable treatment and were desperate enough to prepare to ENDURE until the Bride Groom arrived no matter how long it took .

Many Christians can not accept that they will go through the Tribulation . It is said litterally that the Harvest will be after the Tribulation and before the Wrath .

reply to post by SimonPeter


That's a ton of Eisegesis bro, I don't deal in those things. The significance of oil is to light their lamps when He comes. The ones with oil and not sleeping were expecting Him at any time, they were prepared to leave with Him. The unwise thought He wouldn't be coming when He did, they thought it would be much later so they didn't have oil and they slept. To have a post-trib rapture one needs to deny the doctrine of immenancy. We were told to expect Him at any time, in fact He said it would be even sooner than expected. The great-tribulation is the last half of Daniel's 70th week. And His second coming to Earth will be 1,260 days, 42 months from the Abom of Desolation. The Holy Spirit did everything but break it down to minutes and seconds.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I don't guess Jesus speaking to you in Matthew 24 giving you the events in sequential order is good enough . The point of the Parable of the Ten Virgins was that 5 "FoolishVirgins "were not prepared to endure until the Lord returns . There is no scripture that says we will be Taken out before we suffer the 1st half of Tribulation .
How many Christians will be able to walk away from everything they own? How many will be able to resist the Mark or even walk away from their family who decides to stay .Those same Christians are supposed to be dead to the care of this world and born again in Jesus . Remember the Baptism !
My question to you is when you are confronted with taking the Mark to be able to keep what you have , will you be able to walk away from it ? Will it become a stumbling block in your faith if you realize that you will be here during that time ? And has that become a stumbling block in your interpretation ?

reply to post by SimonPeter


Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

What do you think the hour of temptation is?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

t was explained to you that there is just one second coming, and that "coming" means when Christ returns to Earth.

I must have missed that "explanation". All I saw was the spewing out of cult philosophy, just stating it as if it was an accepted fact.

The same way the apostles saw Him ascend in a cloud.

For an explanation of the meaning of the "in the same way" saying of the men in white of Acts 1:11, read my earlier post, www.abovetopsecret.com...

The rapture verse say we meet Him in the air and go to be with Him. There isn't a verse that says He returns to set foot on Earth at the rapture.

Where is there a verse about Jesus physically returning to earth, period?