Does this video show a working self propelled magnetic engine?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
But since we know that's not likely, let's shoot for something more likely. A long running "free" ( as in self sustaining) energy device. I believe this can be done with an open system or a series of closed systems working in concert.

Science only contradicts the functionality of a "free energy" device in a closed system. If the system is open, not only is there no problem with the laws of science, but such devices have already been invented, for example this device runs based on an open system, and needs no electricity to run until the bearings wear out:

Atmos clock

It's powered by the air. My father has one so I know they work.

The more I think about it the more it seems to me your statement should read, " Science only contradicts the functionality of a "free energy" device in an isolated system"

Using these definitions, I can introduce energy into a closed system from the outside, if need be, but not in an isolated system.

Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect).

Originally posted by XL5
I tried that free energy fan setup from page 5 I think, took about 10minutes and it didn't work at all. The vid did look convincing but there has to be a trick (hidden hall sensor/reed switch and button cells). I am amazed no one would at least try and insist on bickering instead.

So, I wasted some tape and time rearranging some magnets on different computer fans, now I know it won't work the way its shown and now I don't have to bicker about the realness of it.

LOL.. Thanks.. I planned to get to trying it but my wife didn't want me to break this power supply up for the fan just yet.. I was waiting to get another fan someplace. I still think I can make my imagined device work if I can only spin the wheel via some self sustaining mechanism. It doesn't have to be magnetic for my purposes, just as long as it's something that works without adding extra fuel.

reply to post by XL5


I also had some reservations about it working, but was waiting for tomorrow to try myself, or another to actually try it out. As the magnets dont have anything magnetic to grab and move, as the windings arent magnetised without power to them, they are electromagnets, so no power no magnet.

I wander what the part number of that particular motor was, I would like to do a proof of test, to post the video of my results on my own youtube page.

i have tried a few of these DYI devices, and none have worked for me as they are usually based off of failed thinking. However I am one that believes that others will only learn if they try themselves, I was trying to reserve my comments until someone tried it out. Who knows this could have been the one, too bad so sad for us all.

Forgot to add, the reason that the ones that actually work are not perpetual motion, is not as stated by so many that the magnets will run out of magnetism, it is because of the amount of energy that was taken to charge the magnets originally, all you are doing is borrowing ebergy that was already expended in the creation of the magnet to begin with. So yes you can get a fan to turn for free if done correctly, but the energy you retrieve was already put into the magnet to begin with, in the form of mining and and refining the elements, than more energy to charge it originally.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The more I think about it the more it seems to me your statement should read, " Science only contradicts the functionality of a "free energy" device in an isolated system"

I'd agree with that.

If you want to add energy from outside the device you can always hook up a solar panel attached to a battery, and provided the solar panel and battery capacity were sufficient, you could keep the wheel spinning forever, or at least as long as the sun shines.

Ok first off someone tried the CPU fan build and it didn't work. Second off what I'm saying is that it requires work to spin a generator and even the most efficient generators are only 90% efficient so that means it takes 10 units of power to produce 9 units of power. Just by isolating the fan from the generator you aren't going to magically make it not require energy to spin it.

Honestly dude I'd love to be proven wrong and see a PMM actually work and produce power. I think that would be awesome. But I just don't think it's going to happen without some serious and I mean SERIOUS research dollars being thrown at it as well as cutting edge technology.

With that being said I admire your excitement but your grasp of how electricity works is not really the best, and in order to actually do a project like this successfully you'd have to know a pretty fair amount about electricity going into it. This is not to say that I think my knowledge of electricity is stellar because it's not I actually know very little about electricity, but what I do know contradicts what you are saying pretty thoroughly.

The use of magnets isn't perpetual motion as it is not getting something out of nothing... You are using the force generated by / contained within the magnets themselves. So you are in fact utilizing a source of energy..

That's why it works..

Not complaining, actually I always thought magnets were far underutilized and were the wave of the future.

I would have loved for it to work, I would have instantly started to scale it up alot and do something with it. That said, I think the first video on page one holds alot more promise, it works (logically) all up to the sticking point. I just don't have that many of the same magnet type and strength, if I did, I would build it and give some one here the vid of it working or not.

I personally think a PMM should work. We have ways of turning light on and off electrically using polarizers (pockels cell and 1/4wave polarizer) and it does not take much power at all to do it either. If we had the same thing for magnets, we would have free energy and PPM's or, at the very least, a new way of storing power in magnets.

And you could use materials like terfenol-d to automatically lift the magnet at a certain point in the PMM"s rotation so it can reset.

For those that don't know what terfenol D is it's a shape memory alloy that reacts to magnetic fields. Which means a carefuly placed and balanced strip of mu metal on one part of your rotor would allow you to make the device reset automatically.

I personally think if you used things like terfenol D Joe Flynn's parallel path technology and correlated magnetics programmable magnets you could build something pretty amazing. I don't know if it's enough to make a self powering motor but I'm betting it would get you alot closer than conventional construction methods will.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I don't believe you are correct. I have tried to make wheels with magnets spin using other magnets placed around it. I could not get much of a turn at all with just a few magnets. I could almost get one revolution with many magnets but them I hit the point where the fields interact with each other and lock up.

You just stated absolute proof why this is a hoax. As I stated the field pushes with equal force in both directions. That necessitates a lockup, there is no way around it. Imagine two guys in a tug of war both pulling with equal force, the rope by necessity can not move. Thank you for proving my point and proving I am right.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

You do understand that your nonsensical reply only shows your extremely limited understanding of electromagnetism right?

He is only exchanging the electricity, to power electro magnets that make the motor work, with permanent magnets. It isn't some hockey, trick, it is simple electromagnetic theory at work.

There is no difference between a magnet and electricity, they are 2 forms f the same natural phenomena.

3 magnets can't power it as it has 4 windings. Just like if open a electric fan and remove 1 of the 4 windings, it will not function. As it will be out of balance.

As you did not address any of the issues I brought up that prove it to be a hoax, there is not much more I can say. I proved my case. You say no you're wrong and stupid nener nener. Tell you what, make the fan and show me a video. It won't work. You can throw 50 magnets on it, it will still push and pull with the same strength thus negating any movement.
ETA: Someone here tried to the experiment, like I said, it failed.

ETA2: I think there are creative ways to use magnets to derive power, this is not it. Unfortunately until we are able to get more power out of the magnet than is put in creating it, it's a loss of power, not a gain. Magnets are not a force of magic.

reply to post by dashen


I think people are missing the point.

The important thing is that somebody is trying.....and somebody is thinking outside the box and attempting to gain knowledge and use it for good. to help others......to help everyone......using stuff that already exists.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by charlyv
Basically, science really needs to provide the educational principles that will allow everyone to understand that a perpetual motion machine is really a concept, an unobtainable goal that is used as a bell-weather so we can measure just how efficient any closed mechanism or process may be. There should never be any discussion about achieving it, for that automatically becomes pseudo-science. This fact needs to be emphasized ad-nauseum in schools.

Nonsense.

If there is no discussion about it this means that scientist are not open minded or objective. This is when science believes it's dogma so to the point it becomes religion. I don't want my science to be religion. The very tenets of science itself demand open minded objectivity. If you shut that off, you don't have science at all, your science becomes pseudo-science and religion. You just signed sciences own death warrant.

At best we can say with our present understanding of science that we believe a true perpetual motion machine is not possible. It must never however rule out the possibility that we don't know everything about science or physics and with new information theories on these possibilities can change. If this isn't allowed, then it's not science at all. There have been many dogmatic tenets of science that people felt just as strongly about that have now been shattered by new information.

Who says a perpetual motion machine or if you will a long running "free" energy device has to be a closed system? Why not several closed systems working together or an open system that's uniquely designed in ways we haven't thought of yet?

edit on 6-9-2012 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Well basically, I think you missed the point. The point being that there are so many people trying to do what science right now says is impossible based upon belief that flies in the face of a thermodynamic principle that , if it were not so, we would really not exist. It is a solid foundation, that everything we really do know about this universe is hinged on. The point is instead of trying to achieve it, use it as the tool that it is to enable budding minds to get as close to it as possible, without wasting research trying to beat it. Then, there will be innovation.

What that needs is one of those rocking wood/plastic ducks that worked off a cup of water to move the magnet in and out. Does anyone remember those bobblehead ducks from the sixties?

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
reply to post by dashen

 

I think people are missing the point.

The important thing is that somebody is trying.....and somebody is thinking outside the box and attempting to gain knowledge and use it for good. to help others......to help everyone......using stuff that already exists.

No. If that were the case they would be reporting failures. What they are doing is hoaxing people. Taking something that does not work and making a YouTube video about how it does and is being supressed is not helping anyone. It does get YouTube hits, and drives in money though!

Originally posted by rickymouse

What that needs is one of those rocking wood/plastic ducks that worked off a cup of water to move the magnet in and out. Does anyone remember those bobblehead ducks from the sixties?

And what moves the duck? Or is it magic?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by rickymouse

What that needs is one of those rocking wood/plastic ducks that worked off a cup of water to move the magnet in and out. Does anyone remember those bobblehead ducks from the sixties?

And what moves the duck? Or is it magic?

Don't be silly, there is no such thing as magic.

You simply polarize the bobbing duck with a Unicorn fart that has been passed through a Dyson air ioniser.

Instead of being condescending, you could try understanding more about the people who come up with perpetual BS machines and the kinds of paint that they sniff.

It is the only way to be sure what sort of paint it is safe to paint your house with.

Wow, having you two in the same thread is very confusing

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by rickymouse

What that needs is one of those rocking wood/plastic ducks that worked off a cup of water to move the magnet in and out. Does anyone remember those bobblehead ducks from the sixties?

And what moves the duck? Or is it magic?

Wow you never saw the duck?

It's probably why so many kids think perpetual motion is possible, because that's how it looks:

The Drinking Bird – Scientific Toy for the Ages

He looks a little ridiculous, a fuzzy headed bird with a top hat and a big bottom. Yet in the 55 years since it was patented generations of children (not to mention those who refer to themselves as grownups) have laughed at his bobbling, dipping and nodding. Yet behind the chortles and chuckles there is some serious science – this drinking bird seems to violate the laws of physics.

Seeming to do something and doing something are, of course, entirely different things and the drinking bird, also known as the dipping, dippy or even bobble bird is not, as some have suggested, a perpetual motion machine. The bird ducks, takes a sip of water and bobs right back upright, rocking gently. However, instead of becoming still the rocking becomes progressively wilder until he dips down and takes another drink. This seems to go on and on – perpetually as it were.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to take my house off the grid with an army of bobbing ducks, but it's a cool toy!

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Amazing, those birds used to be so plain looking in the sixties. They probably were painted with lead based cadnium paint back then to make the colors not break down so they could last forever

It would be pretty simple to get electricity from the first device that uses a cam to push the magnet up and gravity to drop it which spins the wheel from the other magnets. In fact this is the magnet you could get it from, simply put a small coil at each end. And since its using the cam and gravity no electromagnetic drag like you would get if you tried to use the wheel part. Granted it wouldnt be much. But the simple up down up down of the rod magnet through two coils would do the trick I think.

Any of you religious sciencers think differently?