Does this video show a working self propelled magnetic engine?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Im not an expert in perpetual motion engines, but I have a question I hope you could answer.

In the last stage of the video, where there is a "arm" that pushes away the magnet momentarily so the charges do not cancel, doesnt that represent "energy or work" being drawn from the system?

I know its not a lot, but some work has to be done to push that magnet away temporarily, right?

Adding my 2c...

1) Perpetual motion is possible in 100% vacuum. Do not underestimate the word "perpetual" though and confuse it with "a really long time". Perpetual means forever as in it will never stop if left untouched...not it will last 100 years, 1000 years or ever 1,000,000 years...Keep this in mind when making claims.

2) The machine and video in question clearly demonstrates a self-propelled machine that will last as long as the magnets or any other movie parts can handle. The ticker on the machine that raised the bar/magnet would eventually wear and tear until the machine stopped though. The sudden impact of the ticker as well (on larger scales anyway) would reduce efficiency as that impact is "lost kinetic energy" depending on how fast this machine would rotate on larger scales with larger magnets you are looking at some serious issues.

3) What many I think fail to realize is that in order to get energy from a spinning type of machine or generator there needs to be a load or resistance, this removes the word "vacuum" from the whole equation and suddenly the date of expiration becomes sooner and sooner as the load is increased to increase power output. Not exactly "perpetual" at that point...

4) I do agree that many of the magnetic motors could and are much more efficient than our current fossil fuel motors. The reason being that when people determine the overall efficiency of fossil fuel motors they rarely if ever consider or calculate the expenditure of energy needed to acquire the fuel for that machine to work in the first place. Calculate the energy spent to get the fuel for the machine to work and you can get a much clearer picture of exactly how inefficient fossil fuel based machines/motors really are. They need to be fed "constantly" and that food they eat, isn't necessarily easy to get...it requires a lot of energy from those same energy eating machines...

5) utilizing "fuel" sources that are more abundant and easily obtainable such as (water, especially salt water) would increase efficiency greatly. The fuel byproduct degradation time to raw source material being shorter will increase efficiency as well. One of the most interesting recent discoveries in this area that I have found was imploding bubbles that apparently contain/release a significant amount of energy for their size ratio.

The reason there is a resource issue is because the resources we are utilizing and having issues with take a verrrrry long time to regenerate...nat gas, coal, oils, trees, etc...these things have been in the works for hundreds if not thousands of years...If the amount utilized far exceeds the amount regrown or regenerated the fuel will deplete and has essentially lost all efficiency...this is the crossroads were at now.

Energy and electricity is probably the root cause of all our modern problems and its being addressed with a glancing look every now and again by the worlds "leaders" (use that term loosely because I don't believe in self appointed leadership).

The wars, the poverty, the suffering economy can all be easily reduced and remedied with a well overdue discovery in energy technology. If the world is to continue to grow and progress energy will have to become cheaper and more abundant. This would reduce the wars that we go to over it, killing people on both sides...This will reduce the burden the modern man has economically having to continuously pay for it to even exist in the modern world, travel, internet, etc...

After that energy technology is discovered the new crossroads for the course of mankind will be if that technology will be held for ransom in the form of a patent to enslave all our future children...OR...given freely to mankind with no catch 22 to utilize and allow everyone to become more independent and free...

sorry for the rant, should have been its own thread but meh...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I strongly believe a closed loop magnetic engine that feeds back into itself can be built. This engine can be made to do heavy physical work or produce enough electricity to power common everyday things with no external power source.

So why haven't you built one?

If you read my posts explaining the problems you will see I also said these are simple enough devices to build yourself, and I encourage you to build it yourself. I neither expect nor want you to take my word at face value...go ahead and try it, and report the results back to us here.

I plan on it. I haven't the money to throw at this right now. Thats why I asked from my materials list if you guys can see how it can be done. I believe I can come close to a working diagram on paper anyway but I'll still need time and resources I have dont right now to test it. I have stated my background, I am asking for others more technical experience to see either how it can be done, or why my idea wont work.. and then find ways around the problems.

Ever played with a popular video game series called The Incredible Machine? If I had a program that simulated all these components, I could make one in theory at least in a computer simulation.

Basically you start with the fan motor above and a shaft with magnets and coil that creates more electricity independent of the motor magnets. Then you feed a bank of capacitors to store energy and give your next component a boost of electricity. In this way you already have gotten out more energy than you put in - but not really.. the caps are charged over time where as they release this energy in one burst which is more useful for more work. Now you need to split that energy up into two directions. half goes back to the electromagnet that keeps your motor running and half goes on to something else perhaps, more capacitors, to in turn do more work. This is the end that your works comes from. The other electromagnetic end feeds the motor to put everything into a loop. Thats the basic idea anyway. It appears sound to me because you are never interfering with the magnetic fields of the starter motor and then just using that extra electricity generated to feed and in turn increase other things.. may put a few step up transformers in some place or some kind of switching system.

reply to post by Sly1one


how could you have matter inside of a vacuum and still consider it a 100% vacuum?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Ever played with a popular video game series called The Incredible Machine? If I had a program that simulated all these components, I could make one in theory at least in a computer simulation.

Yes I did play with that and I liked it. However I'm not sure how accurate it is as a simulator. The version I played with had a few little bugs but it was still fun.

It could be modeled in better software but it would be time consuming and/or expensive, compared to just building it.

Good luck on your build and please let us know what happens!

reply to post by VonDoomen


Thanks for the question but I did address that already back on page 2:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Of course you are right.

reply to post by dashen


Yes it works, but until some serious Research and Development is complete, we won't be running our cars from them.

The only downside to using rare earth magnets for power is the mining of

Coltan

Dangerous mines are all over the globe, local farmers are being pressured into digging for pennies in dangerous conditions.

Rare earth magnets will become rarer and costly.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

ahh thanks, I must have missed it.

And even then, the amount of work being drawn from the system is probably miniscule at best

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


If you are only putting half of your energy back into electromagnets then you will constantly be halving the possible output.

Honestly man I'm a believer in the idea that somewhere out there there's probably a technology lurking that is truly revolutionary and with that said I still think you're just being silly.

YOu will say well obviously you're belief isn't that strong. And I'll tell you my belief is a MILLION TIMES stronger than yours. As a matter of fact my belief is so strong I'm going to school to become an engineer so I can learn what I need to know to help develop the wonderful technologies I KNOW humanity can have if we just try hard enough and work smart enough.

Permanent magnet motors and the thieves that try to sell them are nothing but a zero sum game trying to prey on the weak and fatally optimistic of the world.

I mean I'd MAYBE have some respect for a permanent magnet motor builder if they knew of and utilized technologies like CORRELATED MAGNETICS programmable magnets to try to build a truly unique and maybe slightly more viable device. But all these fools out there hustling the gullible with bar magnets and slick videos are just PARASITES sucking the lifeblood from society.

Originally posted by roguetechie
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

If you are only putting half of your energy back into electromagnets then you will constantly be halving the possible output.

No I wont. That's the beauty of using capacitors. Once they are charged they will deliver a full charge. I can split up this energy as many times as i like. As long as i use a little to charge a full capacitor ( over time) that cap will always deliver a large boost. The trick then here is to take those bursts and turn them into a constant power source. I'd need a good way to either charge so many capacitors and split them up as needed or use batteries, I could, incorporate batteries into this mix.. that would not be cheating as long as I can recharge them with this device itself. ( use the battery as a capacitor) This thing doesn't have to be DC or AC, it can be a mix of both. All I'm doing is making a real generator but starting with a tiny bit of electricity and keep boosting it up until I have real working power. I could even use many Free Energy Magnetic Motors with shafts, coils and magnets to make a larger starting electricity level.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

...If I had a program that simulated all these components, I could...

I don't think you understand how a simulator works.

A simulator is simply a chain of algorithms that calculate an outcome based on physics( I know, I know, those bloody scientists and their beloved Newton/Maxwell/Einstein religion). If you don't understand the maths involved, then you will not be able to accurately set a simulator up to model your design/invention.

That being said.....there are many programs out there that will model a design with ease.

Pro E is my personal choice but it is a commercial program and costs $$$.

There are many free programs available on the GPL to model such data. I would suggest installing a flavor of Linux and checking them out. If your new to Linux, then start with Mint13 64bit and go slowly.

If you think your math is up to the task.....I would use a simple spreadsheet. When I studied Mech Eng at uni, this would be the preferred method as it is quick and easy to check.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Perpetual motion is possible in some cases, like a planet with no atmosphere or tidal forces spinning in space can spin pretty much forever without slowing down.

As soon as you try to extract any energy from the spinning motion, it will slow down.

Maybe you should reread my post. That is exactly what I said.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
So 1) we have established this technically IS a perpetual motion machine. Bravo. that ought to shut the naysayers up.

But 2) many of you are still thinking in the old physical universe where you need torque or power or strength to - move something else through space to do " WORK ". This is childish. Haven't we passed these silly lessons for babies of Newton and his so called physical laws yet?

Think out of the box. It only takes a spark to get a fire going. That's what this thing does. It makes a spark. We don't NEED it to actually do any physical "work". All we need is to take that spark, and use it to feed something else that can produce a bigger spark and so on until we get a roaring fire. It really is that simple.

That would be considered doing work, it is 100% impossible. 100% of the energy goes into making it turn. However, since he does not have a zero friction setup, this is not perpetual motion without outside energy being added, he is adding energy to the system or it would stop due to friction. (friction is work)

So he can light LED's.

No, he can't. Taking energy from the device to light anything would be doing work, which is impossible.

Originally posted by The Cusp
In the earlier versions depicted in that video, he is essentially pushing the wheel with his hand. The force to turn the wheel is not coming from the magnets, but from the muscle power in his arm.

In his final build, he's relying on gravity to do the pushing, and I just don't think gravity is strong enough in this case to get the job done. The force of the falling magnet would not push the wheel, but balance it's self out.

He can't use gravity. Gravity only goes one way, as you can see in the first part the magnet has to go up and down, gravity only does one of those. He's clearly a fraud.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by The Cusp
In the earlier versions depicted in that video, he is essentially pushing the wheel with his hand. The force to turn the wheel is not coming from the magnets, but from the muscle power in his arm.

In his final build, he's relying on gravity to do the pushing, and I just don't think gravity is strong enough in this case to get the job done. The force of the falling magnet would not push the wheel, but balance it's self out.

Thats not how I'm seeing it work. In the final build the force to turn the wheel is indeed coming from the magnets.. say, 3/4 of a turn - But then he has to move his "pusher magnet" out of the way so so the fields don't cancel each other out,

Where does the energy come from to move the pusher magnet? That is energy being introduced into the system. This alone prevents it from being a perpetual motion system.

I maintain it can be done if you forget this thing doing physical work and use it for electrical work instead to feed something else ( as seen in the second video down the page)

You display you lack any sort of understanding as to what work is. Electrical work is work, it is impossible, even if this was a perpetual motion device (which it is not as I already proved) it could not do any electrical work or the system would stop.

Originally posted by renegadeloser
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

He modifies the device, so that it does the work of raising the bar itself, and still has enough power to spin.

That means he is a lying fraud. Raising the bar requires "work" the system can not provide any work. If it is then he's lying. 2+2 will never equal 7.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Maybe you should reread my post. That is exactly what I said.

Hopefully it's not a problem that I agreed with you, is it? Why do I need to re-read your post?

Originally posted by dashen
reply to post by boncho

 

Neither is the machine in the featured video, but the 1000 or so years it would take the magnet to lose its charge puts your initial comment in perspective.

1000 years with resistance that produces usable electricity. Please throw out some math for it, you must know as you are so confident in it...

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It sounded as if you were disagreeing with me, all the while saying exactly what I said. I was just pointing out I agreed with what you said. No problem at all!

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by The Cusp
In the earlier versions depicted in that video, he is essentially pushing the wheel with his hand. The force to turn the wheel is not coming from the magnets, but from the muscle power in his arm.

In his final build, he's relying on gravity to do the pushing, and I just don't think gravity is strong enough in this case to get the job done. The force of the falling magnet would not push the wheel, but balance it's self out.

Thats not how I'm seeing it work. In the final build the force to turn the wheel is indeed coming from the magnets.. say, 3/4 of a turn - But then he has to move his "pusher magnet" out of the way so so the fields don't cancel each other out,

Where does the energy come from to move the pusher magnet? That is energy being introduced into the system. This alone prevents it from being a perpetual motion system.

I maintain it can be done if you forget this thing doing physical work and use it for electrical work instead to feed something else ( as seen in the second video down the page)

You display you lack any sort of understanding as to what work is. Electrical work is work, it is impossible, even if this was a perpetual motion device (which it is not as I already proved) it could not do any electrical work or the system would stop.

Not true. We have already established this is not true perpetual motion because the parts can break down. For my purposes, I don't care about this it matters not. So you are calling this thing doing electrical work - still a form of work - I agree technically but I made the distinction to differentiate that type of work from the type of work others were talking about - moving an object through space with torque.

Look at the video of the Free Energy Magnetic Moror.. the CPU fan and magnets from the hard drive. The only way you cant have this do electrical work that would cause the system to stop is if your getting that electrical energy from the magnets themselves that are spinning the wheel. I don't propose to do that. I propose to put a shaft on the spinning center of the wheel and then add magnets and a coil to the other end of the shaft - a totally separate system independent of the spinning wheel and it's magnets you see.. ( except that the other end of the shaft is being spun by that device) This creates electromagnetic induction to produce other electricity. That is the energy that can be used. This never crosses or upsets the fields of the spinning wheel and it's magnets so it won't stop the device.

I think the problem is you guys are having a really hard time understanding the concept. I'm not doing anything here that should violate any laws.