Does this video show a working self propelled magnetic engine?

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Dear OccamsRazor04

You might try watching the whole of the first video as your complaint has been answered.

Now as someone else suggested it is perpetrated by a known fraud.

However I am no Boffin but it looks good to me and as near as dam it a perpetual motion machine.

It is all very well to have had a bit of Physics training just so off the cuff spout the LAW of this or that. These things should be examined without prejudice by people who really know what they are talking about not just poo pooed out of hand.

With that sort of attitude the future of mankind is bleak indeed.

I would like to get Michio Kaku to look at it and see what he thinks.

Just because he gives an answer does not mean the problem has been addressed. It can't be addressed. I'm not watching it all, out of curiosity what is his answer to my complaint? I am at work and can't have sound on anyway.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Perpetual motion is possible in some cases, like a planet with no atmosphere or tidal forces spinning in space can spin pretty much forever without slowing down.

As soon as you try to extract any energy from the spinning motion, it will slow down.

Likewise with the magnet setup, just try to extract energy from it and see what happens.

Also, permanent magnets do indeed have a long lifetime in many circumstances, but there are some things that can demagnetize them. High temperatures can degrade a permanent magnet, as can having the permanent magnet repetitively exposed to other magnets.

What Causes a Permanent Magnet to Lose Its Magnetism?

Improper Storage Bar magnets for science class have their north and south poles clearly marked. If you store or stack them with the north poles together, this causes them to lose their magnetism faster than normal. Instead, you want to store them with the north pole of one touching the south pole of another. The magnets will attract each other in this orientation and maintain each other's fields. You can store horseshoe magnets this way also, or you can put a small piece of iron, called a "keeper," across the poles to preserve its strength.

Having magnets work against each other is similar to storing magnets with their north poles together, which over time reduces their magnetism. The harder you make the magnets work against each other (to create more power) the faster they will demagnetize each other.

In the final analysis, the energy required to re-magnetize the magnets would exceed whatever energy you extracted while de-magnetizing them. But as this site says:

Why won't my perpetual motion machine work?

Assuming you don't add energy to this system, its energy will continually decrease and its entropy will likewise increase. Eventually it will slow and stop. Therefore, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

However, you're welcome to try...

Don't let me or anyone else talk you out of trying it if you want to try it. You're welcome to try and you just might learn something. It's simple so most people can do it. If Michio Kaku tells you it won't work, plenty of people won't believe him anyway, so just try it and see for yourself.

So 1) we have established this technically IS a perpetual motion machine. Bravo. that ought to shut the naysayers up.

But 2) many of you are still thinking in the old physical universe where you need torque or power or strength to - move something else through space to do " WORK ". This is childish. Haven't we passed these silly lessons for babies of Newton and his so called physical laws yet?

Think out of the box. It only takes a spark to get a fire going. That's what this thing does. It makes a spark. We don't NEED it to actually do any physical "work". All we need is to take that spark, and use it to feed something else that can produce a bigger spark and so on until we get a roaring fire. It really is that simple.

So he can light LED's. I'm betting he can also charge small capacitors. Who cares that the whole setup may not last forever - Thats not the point. The point it to make this and it's capacitor banks, and other motors running off those caps ( and so on) to be able to finally preform the "work" we want it to do - say, power our lights or our laptop, cell phones, refrigerator etc..even our cars.

The idea is to get us off the grid for at least our lifetimes. I see no reason why this cannot happen with a little more time and effort.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
So 1) we have established this technically IS a perpetual motion machine. Bravo. that ought to shut the naysayers up.

No, read Arb's post again.

But 2) many of you are still thinking in the old physical universe where you need torque or power or strength to - move something else through space to do " WORK ". This is childish. Haven't we passed these silly lessons for babies of Newton and his so called physical laws yet?

You haven't even bothered to understand the "old physical laws", so who exactly are you to accuse others of being "childish" when your position is one of ignorance?

Think out of the box.

Thinking outside the box requires you to understand the box in the first place. Dismissing physics from a position of ignorance is not "thinking outside the box", it's called being ignorant.

It only takes a spark to get a fire going. That's what this thing does. It makes a spark. We don't NEED it to actually do any physical "work". All we need is to take that spark, and use it to feed something else that can produce a bigger spark and so on until we get a roaring fire. It really is that simple.

You're contradicting yourself. It doesn't NEED to do physical work, yet you wish to use the energy which by definition is physical work? Your evaluation is indeed simplistic, largely because it's flat out wrong.

And so on. The pattern repeats. Scientifically illiterate people who have in interest in understanding the world around them, only feeding their fantastical and nonsensical "interpretation" make wild and unsubstantiated claims that are neither backed by evidence nor science. But of course! The science is wrong! They don't even understand the science, but it's gotta be wrong, right? It's easy to dismiss science as wrong and believe all sorts of nonsense than it is to actually educate yourself. That is the real tragedy in these sorts if threads.

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
So 1) we have established this technically IS a perpetual motion machine. Bravo. that ought to shut the naysayers up.

No, read Arb's post again.

But 2) many of you are still thinking in the old physical universe where you need torque or power or strength to - move something else through space to do " WORK ". This is childish. Haven't we passed these silly lessons for babies of Newton and his so called physical laws yet?

You haven't even bothered to understand the "old physical laws", so who exactly are you to accuse others of being "childish" when your position is one of ignorance?

Think out of the box.

Thinking outside the box requires you to understand the box in the first place. Dismissing physics from a position of ignorance is not "thinking outside the box", it's called being ignorant.

It only takes a spark to get a fire going. That's what this thing does. It makes a spark. We don't NEED it to actually do any physical "work". All we need is to take that spark, and use it to feed something else that can produce a bigger spark and so on until we get a roaring fire. It really is that simple.

You're contradicting yourself. It doesn't NEED to do physical work, yet you wish to use the energy which by definition is physical work? Your evaluation is indeed simplistic, largely because it's flat out wrong.

And so on. The pattern repeats. Scientifically illiterate people who have in interest in understanding the world around them, only feeding their fantastical and nonsensical "interpretation" make wild and unsubstantiated claims that are neither backed by evidence nor science. But of course! The science is wrong! They don't even understand the science, but it's gotta be wrong, right? It's easy to dismiss science as wrong and believe all sorts of nonsense than it is to actually educate yourself. That is the real tragedy in these sorts if threads.

So.. whats your problem? Need more coffee? Got a real thing for Newton and his laws such to the point that you have to bite my head off because I was trying to get people to look past this thing moving an object through space to do physical work?

I read Arbs post. It doesn't apply to what I'm talking about. 2) and No, I don't see anywhere in your fiery critique that actually proves i'm wrong. It looks like you didn't even understand my post the more I re-read yours. ( just like you didn't understand my post here www.abovetopsecret.com...) I never claimed the science was wrong.. just that people were looking at this thing and it's potential the wrong way. No, I do not consider using this spark to feed something else the same as doing physical work in the same vein as having to have torque to move something heaver through space. That's what I meant about Newton. If that were the case, the act of lighting the LED's alone would have caused this thing to fail and stop spinning.

How dare you chide me so for my understanding of science ( which is philosophy but you wouldn't understand that www.aynrandbookstore2.com...) I could say the same about your reading comprehension.

In the earlier versions depicted in that video, he is essentially pushing the wheel with his hand. The force to turn the wheel is not coming from the magnets, but from the muscle power in his arm.

In his final build, he's relying on gravity to do the pushing, and I just don't think gravity is strong enough in this case to get the job done. The force of the falling magnet would not push the wheel, but balance it's self out.

Originally posted by The Cusp
In the earlier versions depicted in that video, he is essentially pushing the wheel with his hand. The force to turn the wheel is not coming from the magnets, but from the muscle power in his arm.

In his final build, he's relying on gravity to do the pushing, and I just don't think gravity is strong enough in this case to get the job done. The force of the falling magnet would not push the wheel, but balance it's self out.

Thats not how I'm seeing it work. In the final build the force to turn the wheel is indeed coming from the magnets.. say, 3/4 of a turn - But then he has to move his "pusher magnet" out of the way so so the fields don't cancel each other out, ( and stop the spinning) and he uses the cam to move the magnet out of the way so gravity can be used to help make the revolution ( and thus realign his pusher magnet to its correct starting point for another 3/4 turn) . What the others are saying is, yes, this might spin forever but you cannot do work with it. they were only thinking of the type of work that is done physically.

I maintain it can be done if you forget this thing doing physical work and use it for electrical work instead to feed something else ( as seen in the second video down the page) - that wont interfere with the fields and cause the magnet to stop it's rotation. You build your ability to do more powerful work from the capacitors that you have charged. It's not over unity, it's simply making a sort of loop by continually using then replacing the charge in the capacitors, but it effectively serves the same purpose. Granted, it might take a long time to charge enough capacitors in series to be able to produce the kind of work you want but once you get the ball rolling I believe it could be useful.

This one seems to be producing an excess of energy, enough to power some LEDs

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
What the others are saying is, yes, this might spin forever but you cannot do work with it. they were only thinking of the type of work that is done physically.

It won't spin forever because it's doing work as shown without any load applied to it. Specifically, the work is overcoming friction in the bearings, overcoming air resistance, and probably the most work of all is lifting the magnet on top when the cam hits it.

Originally posted by dashen
This one seems to be producing an excess of energy, enough to power some LEDs

So does a hydroelectric dam.

But you have to add energy to the water to get it to pass through the dam again.

Look at this video at 4:30, when they apply over 8000 watts to the magnet:



Now the question is, how long can you run LEDs from a bunch of magnets that have been charged with 8000 watts of power, before you have to re-apply the 8000 watts of power again to remagnetize the magnets?

And will the power you get out to power the LEDs be more or less than the power you put in to keep remagnetizing the magnets?

Do try this at home.

While I am one of the biggest promoters ( unofficially ) of Magnetism, electromagnets and natural magnets as our next evolutionary technological innovation, This is nothing more than a very well thought out magnetic sculpture.

reason I say such, is as fast and well moving the magnetic engine seems to be, once you apply a fraction of that machines weight to it, you must then apply more magnets to compensate for the weight difference, and then you need more power, thus turning this machine into a electromagnetic engine and then you are left with needing power to charge the electromagnets, most current example of this device today as electromagnets is a hydro generator, normally located in DAMs, or Rivers.

The issue all have been searching to fix / solve with magnets is the power source, once you have a infinite power source, the magnetic's abilities are limitless.

So just to clarify, this video is awesome for magnetic demonstration showing the uses and abilities of properly placed magnets with proper force applied.

But remember, when magnets meet resistance, they require more strength, thus meaning bigger magnet, so that's why we have magnetic trains, but not magnetic cars yet, Like we need heavier cars and trucks gliding across a cushion of air on our streets, drivers in Maryland are most likely the worst in the USA compared to a recent AAA study. ( ok so it's DC, followed by places in md. )

Honestly, I don't think we are ready to handle much more technological advancements, we can't even treat the ones we have with respect.

New things get produced, and 80% of the world looks at it going Oh geez that's cool, Imma do this with it, and this and then maybe try this, and yes this is how innovation is started, but also how people get hurt and die, but darwin had a point right.

I did want to point out to anyone wondering why he had that piece of plastic rotating along side of it, it was applying the bar magnet at the top in periodic intervals as so not to attract the spinning magnets as some had to be positioned in such a way that if the bar magnet at the top was left down it would stop the whole thing, I just thought that was a clever addition from a engineering standpoint. Bravo.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


He modifies the device, so that it does the work of raising the bar itself, and still has enough power to spin.

It doesn't work. It will never work. Try as you may.

Magnetic energy DOES DO actual physical work and powerful magnets arranged like the video shows DO amount to a funtioning motor that CAN turn a generator creating usable electricity for free. Yes this can and does work.

Here's a question: If we can build these contraptions that can convert energy from manual labor into electricity, and engineer them so precisely as to eliminate almost ALL resistance, why doesnt a government, or business employ people to power these type of machines, and store and sell/give the energy that's "produced?" Job creation. Energy creation. Once you got a large scale generator going, it's easier to up shift gears and get more bang for th buck, right? (Easy fall into slavery, like those ship rowers in chains on the movies, I suppose, but let's assume that's not gonna happen.) get a big wheel spinning fast, and just keep it going with a large work crew, ike on those boats, to maximize energy "harvested." (beware of corporate vampires!) It'd be mundane, but if I could support my fam, or make power (for fun, visualize Goku) I probably would.

Side note, you guys seen the cow tread mill? Produces energy cheaply, if I remember reading it correctly. 'twas a few years ago, prob in popsci mag.

Originally posted by japhrimu
Here's a question: If we can build these contraptions that can convert energy from manual labor into electricity, and engineer them so precisely as to eliminate almost ALL resistance, why doesnt a government, or business employ people to power these type of machines, and store and sell/give the energy that's "produced?" Job creation. Energy creation. Once you got a large scale generator going, it's easier to up shift gears and get more bang for th buck, right? (Easy fall into slavery, like those ship rowers in chains on the movies, I suppose, but let's assume that's not gonna happen.) get a big wheel spinning fast, and just keep it going with a large work crew, ike on those boats, to maximize energy "harvested." (beware of corporate vampires!)

It'd be mundane, but if I could support my fam, or make power (for fun, visualize Goku) I probably would.

Side note, you guys seen the cow tread mill? Produces energy cheaply, if I remember reading it correctly. 'twas a few years ago, prob in popsci mag.

These technologies are suppressed because they're a threat to the trillions made by the fossil fuel industry. That's the one and only reason.

It's funny how people repeat the same old words read in their 40 science books, yet have never actually done the physical experiments to actually confirm what they just accept and then regurgitate out to others as if the gospel. Do magnets really store that charge that they are polarized with? NO. People talking about magnets like they are some kind of battery that stores energy have no clue what a magnet really is.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by dashen

 

How do you not see him moving the magnet up and down? For every bit of energy you get on the repel side of the magnet you lose on the attract side. He is counteracting this by moving the magnet when the energy would be lost.

Free energy devices of this nature can never work for this very reason. Assuming zero friction you can get a wheel to spin forever, but it would have 0 energy output. That means it will spin forever as long as no work is being done. The second you attempt to use the energy for work, the wheel would stop. It. Can't. Work. How are people so easilly fooled? The method used here is so obvious as well.

No load, except friction, and the life is long. But with no load attached there is no purpose for it to exist. Put on a load and the gauss fields will deplete quickly. The magnetic field is likened to the voltage in a charged battery. You can't see either but is potential energy.

Yes they really are like a battery. I've been working in electronics since 1971 quite deeply.

reply to post by Freezer

Do magnets really store that charge that they are polarized with? NO. People talking about magnets like they are some kind of battery that stores energy have no clue what a magnet really is.

This is the funniest post I have read today.

Were you intentionally trying to be funny?

The physics governing magnetic flux is so well documented that it is considered to be the most well understood of the five forces of atomic theory.

Yes, a magnet stores energy like a battery.

reply to post by Freezer


a question for you :

how much energy ` input ` is required to charge a magnet

how much energy ` output ` can that same magnet deliver