The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

GREAT posts from DT 101 & cuckoold. Im having issues trying to be coherent on my android too, I promise a reply worthy of the excellent posts above when I have the chance to sit down at the laptop and give them the attention they most definitely deserve!! Thank you both.

Originally posted by DarkTemplar101
...It amazes me how many people I ask about this subject either laugh or give me the third eye, not that I mind but simply because it dis-interests them THAT MUCH. The agencies have secretly controlled everything for years and to other agencies who are not involved or do not have clearance it has become sort of a learned behavior to just go along with everything and never ask questions. There simply must be a reason for this giant smoke screen, and I think it goes much deeper than we think...

...There is definitely something the agencies (I like to refrain from the phrase: "government") are benefiting from keeping a tight lid on everything, and I think this has something to do with the higher beings (or higher intelligence if you will) agenda. Their ultimate plan or objective may fail if there ever was full disclosure.

At any rate I appreciate not only for your time reading but also feedback.

I, too, find the theory of an "outside intelligence" manipulating humankind a front-runner of an explanation. It's not that I think we humans are incapable of royally mucking things up; war, inequality, etc. but, rather, that there seems to be a power structure forming that is impervious to time and it doesn't seem to matter which nations fall and which succeed for a time.

The intel agencies--no matter the nation--are the spooks that haunt our collective house. The foot soldiers of the darkness that creeps and creeps and creeps. It seems--looking around--that the darkness has crept to everyone's doorstep.

Originally posted by cuckooold
There has been a little nagging voice...at the power of this website at promoting and reinforcing lot of UFO mythology, information, and disinformation...Dr Kit Green's involvement with ATS 'should' be read as highly suspicious if previous engagements are anything to go on, and it would not be unreasonable to question what is ATS (and GLP), and just how sophisticated are these players, and the machinery (Vallee's control mechanisms) they are at the helm of, or is just a feedback loop designed to stoke individual and collective paranoias? Could ARPANET be another extension of MK-ULTRA?...

...but there's a UFO related 'meme' I wish to discuss further, and before my browser crashes, so excuse me while I change mind control/tracking devices. There's a persistently recurring idea/meme that just about anyone interested in UFOology will encounter, and to my own small mind, far more compelling than the polluted waters of Roswell.

Grab your seat belts, as this ride will never be a smooth one, and better minds than my own have been ruined here.

Man, that whole post deserves to be read again.

I've come to believe that many of the "disinformationists" don't officially know very much themselves. They were probably chosen because of their esoteric leanings and--like all blood-signed-on-the-dotted-line foot soldiers...they do as they are told.

Evidence does seem to suggest, however, that some of these folk do believe they've experienced contact with a higher intelligence. Col. John B. Alexander's explorations in various forms of shamanism are pretty interesting. Especially in light of the way he makes fun of "conspiracy theorists" and then turns around and immerses himself into a vast number of far-out subjects. Funny, really.

Digging deeper into Kit Green's activities than we can sometimes go here, also reveals more about the man than he would probably like anyone to know. There are some emails out there somewhere that personally elucidated much for me. A laugh-out-loud comedy of errors by the gang that couldn't shoot straight. That's not to say that Kit isn't an impressive cat in many ways, because he is. But digging into the murkier aspects of our puzzle does reveal--to me--some serious ethical issues that seem to escape those who consider themselves of the "brotherhood."

Can't wait for your next installment, cuckooold.

I meant to talk about this yesterday but time eluded me, and that is the enigma of Paul Bennewitz and the Dulce phenomena, whatever that may be.

I've heard that Bennewitz was a loose cannon raving to everyone and their dog about an impending alien invasion, and I've also heard that Bennewitz was a man of few words, who would not speculate without ample proof. Which Bennewitz is the real one (and are there other incarnations)? I tend to believe he was a man of science, who got too close to a viper's nest of whatever bizarre intelligence is between Kirtland AFB, Mr Richard (Strawberry Ice Cream/SERPO) Doty, and Dulce. Paul Bennewitz, man of science who produced finely calibrated scientific instruments via a small company he founded, Thunder Scientific (still existing today), and he sold these instruments to the military. As far as I can imagine, if he was to come across an unknown phenomena he would apply scientific methods and analysis - in order to advance any sort of opinion on this crazed mythology, one must make a few assumptions of what to believe.

OK, so Bennewitz witnessed UFOs; were they 'ours', 'ET', or inter-dimensional entities? If these craft were top secret military craft, why the sustained attacks on his mental health? By all accounts Paul Bennewitz was a patriot and he believed the US was being invaded by aliens. I lean towards the belief that if told he had witnessed highly classified info, he would know to keep his mouth shut (after all, he was a WW2 veteran).

By accounts Bennewitz believed he was intercepting alien communications, and he thought he could translate them. It's been suggested these were a tool of deception to lead Bennewitz to believe he was communicating with and witnessing UFOs , to cover the classified projects he stumbled over. I don't buy it - now there are many layers of deception and obfuscation, but it's not as fouled as the waters of Roswell. There are some well written accounts I have read, with varying conclusions, but people should make their own minds up. Something smells funny here.

Paul Bennewitz believed there was an alien base in Dulce, perhaps the belief led by the appearance of Myrna Hansen (and who was she really?), alleged abductee. Reports of a base in Dulce are hard to swallow, but who knows for sure? Vallee says, "Where does their garbage go?", and he's correct, but regardless, there's some high strangeness between Doty, Moore, Hansen, Bennewitz, and the potential alien/human base supposedly near Archuleta Mesa. Bennewitz spoke of aliens travelling through walls to give him injections - this reeks of MK ULTRA, but I still think Bennewitz was onto something, but this something is met, magnified, and converted to BS via the highly effective manure generator, RIchard Doty.

If any of what Bennewitz saw or believed is true, this is quite a significant thing, with ramifications for everything that has succeeded it. Even J. Allen Hynek was implicated, delivering the (probably compromised) computer which Bennewitz supposedly could talk to the 'aliens' through.

There are some fascinating threads on ATS about Bennewitz, and other interesting ingredients are the cattle mutilations, on the home turf of Gabe Valdez (another one of the good guys I think), plus lots of UFO sitings. Mr Valdez made contradictory statements regarding his own beliefs about this phenomena, but I am of the belief that Gabe Valdez was a cautious man, thrown in the deep end, needing to negotiate a landscape that was highly political as well as extremely strange. I've heard Valdez quoted that the mutilations were done by humans (to look as if done by UFOs), as well as hearing that later on Valdez had some belief that there may have been a base under Dulce.

So where does this leave us? Absolutely no closer to anything resembling the truth (if there's such a thing in a post-modern world), but I think this is like a hologram or fractal; if one can somehow reassemble the Dulce-Bennewitz-Mutilation enigma into something cogent, it should be possible to understand the much larger picture with at least a semi-valid hypothesis (and hopefully not end up with reptilians of which I am highly skeptical).

We may never do so, but far better to go down fighting and use the information we have, however deviant it may be, rather than throwing up our hands, and making blanket statements like 'All UFOs are military', or some such nonsense. The mystery must be embraced, and I believe it was Vallee who suggested that perhaps understanding is beyond the scope of the human brain, and other methodologies like shamanism (at least accessing the non rational parts of the mind) should be investigated.

Another shard of the holographic whole worth investigating is that of Skinwalker Ranch. Also, the experiments of Dr Richard Straussman with the Tryptamines should not be dismissed (and why many using these substances see Greys, Grasshopper beings, and other Insectoid creatures).

reply to post by cuckooold

Hmmm…Bennewitz.

The most telling question I can think of to start sorting it out is: What do we make of Richard Doty's involvement?

Of course it's possible that Doty was assigned to give Mr. Bennewitz a world-class mind-effing in the interest of covering up the true nature of the gubmints knowledge of--and possible collaboration with--alien visitors.

It seems more likely, however, imo, that Greg Bishop got closer on this one with his Project Beta: The Story of Paul Bennewitz, National Security, and the Creation of a Modern UFO Myth


As we know. Doty's involvement with the genesis and multiple variations of the "core" story are longstanding and not debatable at this point. It should also be considered that John Lear really promoted the whole Dulce business as well...long after Bennewitz was neutralized. That in itself makes it extremely suspect. Kind of hard to believe anyone would want to hush up true alien stuff and yet keep drawing attention to that section of the country where Bennewitz claimed direct observation.

Btw, that's the first I remember hearing of Dr. Hynek's involvement in this issue. How solid is the evidence for that? If accurate, it could be a game changer in a variety of ways.

Again: Thanks for taking the time to add so much info to this thread.

reply to post by The GUT


I've come across Project Beta before, perhaps on threads here or google books. I don't think I have read the complete text.

From Miragemen, regarding Hynek and Bennewitz

books.google.com.au... ZnsAIT7IXGw1dyOr4SskzwvY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_gHNUcI8iKmIB5OHgbgP&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA

and a fair bit more here, referencing Miragemen, and also mentioning the duping of Linda Moulton-Howe.

visupview.blogspot.com.au...

Having Hynek pop up in this snake pit is akin to seeing your kindly Uncle exiting a bordello of ill repute. It kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth!

Originally posted by The GUT
I, too, find the theory of an "outside intelligence" manipulating humankind a front-runner of an explanation. It's not that I think we humans are incapable of royally mucking things up; war, inequality, etc. but, rather, that there seems to be a power structure forming that is impervious to time and it doesn't seem to matter which nations fall and which succeed for a time.

While there's no doubt of intelligence agency involvement and intelligence agency primacy, it's important to note that given some particular set of circumstances, rational actors (or predictably irrational actors with the same background and assumptions) will react in a small number of easily classified patterns... for particular kinds of circumstances. And, in aggregate, groups of individuals will act more predictably than solitary ones (just as a single gas molecule cannot have its path predicted, while a mol of gas can be modeled without taking into account single molecules).

In other words, similar patterns of behavior can be explained either by a continuation of the same organization with the same people, or by a continuation of the same circumstances and the same goals. Spooks will act like spooks with enough experience, regardless of training and regardless of origin. Probably, MIBs will act like MIBs regardless of training or origin (and this is borne out by 'encounters' that were later explained away as encounters with very awkward human beings from a wide variety of organizations, including civilian amateur UFO investigation groups. I think Vallee mentioned this, but it might have been Keel)

Can one provoke an MIB encounter...

Originally posted by geist0108
Can one provoke an MIB encounter...

You are thinking of a trap maybe?

That would be cool. However, we're not generally talking here about what most might consider the MIB of the Albert K. Bender type if that's what you mean.

In the sense that we are talking about MIB(OPs) in this thread then, yeah, I'm convinced so...but it might not turn out all that well.

Well, the interesting bit about this is that we're talking about psyops techniques documented in the public domain. I guess if you wanted to run into intelligence operatives performing psyops in the UFO community, your best bet would be to run counter-psyops of your own.

Originally posted by OkabeRintaro
Well, the interesting bit about this is that we're talking about psyops techniques documented in the public domain. I guess if you wanted to run into intelligence operatives performing psyops in the UFO community, your best bet would be to run counter-psyops of your own.

Boy oh boy I like the sound of that. They have sharp little infected teeth though. Tar-babies. Something along the lines that Doc Jock (Vallee) postulated--and was apparently implemented by some element--in regards manipulating the "control system" but back at 'em....

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Hi The Gut,

Just thought I'd let you know that I've (finally) turned to focusing on researching and writing a thread which touches on The Aviary...

...I've started getting stuck into the more interesting research involved in trying to understand various issues which involve looking at several of the people involved in The Aviary. I'll probably be bothering you shortly to compare notes.

From initial explorations in the last few weeks of a few issues that I've noted over the years, I'm fairly sure that I'll shortly have some material that you and some other members of ATS will find interesting

I hope so. I'm so looking forward to it. Sorry if I butchered your quote in any way that takes away from your intent. While I'm purposely replying to your post here and certainly have a message to relay to you, Isaac, the gist of this post, as will become apparent below, is meant for an entirely different audience.

Having said that: I do owe you an apology that you probably aren't aware of, and if I'm ever able to get a particular message to you it will become clear why.

Every time I try and address, by private communication, the most, imo, meaningful points as relates this thread--either to you or other receptive researchers of note that I've been in contact with--they bloody disappear. I get all of yours and the other's emails it seems. Everyone gets some of mine. But I'll be danged if the meaty ones never seem to arrive to my intended recipients.

Doesn't matter which of the various email accounts I use--or other forms of messaging ahem--they get swallowed by the ghost in the machine. Even from my outbox, it seems, and very definitely from my word processing documents. I just had one disappear in front of my very eyes. Coincidence? Maybe…but it only happens in regards some of the issues raised here and even, apparently, after trying again tonight to contact you and after taking such a long break from the subject. I find it increasingly hard to swallow, even though I'm willing to do so if the evidence supports error in my conclusions.

I'll rewrite it over the next day or two, but I truly wonder if you will receive it? Why address that here? Could be a significant clue when one thinks about it. This thread is what might be considered a sleeper if my theory is correct. Let the reader understand. Cat slips unexpectedly out of bag, can't kill it in front of everyone. Hasn't been just email shenanigans either, but I'll address that in more detail privately for your opinion.

Now, to address the spookies who seem to have access to my email and such. Only one of two scenarios make sense to me:

1.) Either you want me to continue this line of thought for some memetic and diabolical purpose that you have in mind as evidenced by REALLY, and totally, ticking me off tonight.

OR

2.) Your psychological assessment of me was prepared by bleeping idiots and you've only managed to make me mad again rather than lay down, shut up, and whimper like I did before.

Yeah, you knocked me down. For a minute. But in the words of one of our great philosophers: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." In the somewhat paraphrased words of another great, albeit "lisping" philosopher, "Honey Badger Don't Give a Hoot."

It's on now, dudes, for realz. Waste me or taste me.

reply to post by The GUT


What's that line

#*%*& the torpedoes and full steam ahead?

Thanks for your excellent commentary. More power to you.

Let no weapon formed against you prosper in any way in any regards in any context for any reason to any negative result.

Blessings,

Originally posted by The GUT
I'm purposely replying to your post here and certainly have a message to relay to you, Isaac,

I look forward to hearing from you. I think you have my email address (just my username at gmail.com) and, for that matter, the temporary Australian fax number that I have set up.

After writing my post that you quote above, I reached out to a few people and finally obtained some documentation I'd been after for a couple of years relating to some of the cast of the Aviary. Nothing Earth-shattering, but I found it quite interesting and it opens up further lines of inquiry. When I get a bit of time, I'll try to get permission to share that documentation (which is easier said than done...) and look into the issues arising from the documentation.

Every time I try and address, by private communication, the most, imo, meaningful points as relates this thread--either to you or other receptive researchers of note that I've been in contact with--they bloody disappear. I get all of yours and the other's emails it seems. Everyone gets some of mine. But I'll be danged if the meaty ones never seem to arrive to my intended recipients.

I usually draft my longer posts in Microsoft Word and save them to my hard-drive as I write them, so that I have my own copy. I think that it's not THAT uncommon for technical problems to cause material submitted on website (whether ATS, Gmail or elsewhere) to be lost, so I like to have a copy available for easy resubmission.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
After writing my post that you quote above, I reached out to a few people and finally obtained some documentation I'd been after for a couple of years relating to some of the cast of the Aviary. Nothing Earth-shattering, but I found it quite interesting and it opens up further lines of inquiry. When I get a bit of time, I'll try to get permission to share that documentation (which is easier said than done...) and look into the issues arising from the documentation.

You're killing me with anticipation, but I totally understand.

I usually draft my longer posts in Microsoft Word and save them to my hard-drive as I write them, so that I have my own copy. I think that it's not THAT uncommon for technical problems to cause material submitted on website (whether ATS, Gmail or elsewhere) to be lost, so I like to have a copy available for easy resubmission.

Yeah, I admit to some paranoia, but at this point I don't feel it misguided. If one is singled out for unwanted attention then I think some "paranoia" is fairly handy albeit double-edged. Meaning that it has its strengths and weaknesses in that you may see some spooks who aren't there, but you don't miss the spooks that are there. It's exactly the case that I did finally make it as a document--on a Mac program that is basically an MS Word Lite--and that document was gone after it had been saved. I go back looking for it occasionally hoping to find it and have a good chuckle at myself.

Having said that, I'm willing to concede a bad case of Tinfoilnitus if the evidence turns in that direction. I'm also willing to concede that the "troll who raises from the dead' is much more computer saavy than I in the realm of computer security and I did clicky on one of his links in a private email conversation off-site and as such he alone may be the culprit if my system has been compromised. Then again, said troll, "the Scamper" as I affectionately call him, does have a sordid history with some of the folks and organizations mentioned in this thread.

However, I should note that I don't concede any tinfoilamania as regards the gist of this thread: It's hard to get around the evidentiary items that suggest that some of the cast of characters mentioned here have certainly muddied the waters of ufology for years. And seeing as how the subject has such huge implications for mankind...I find it hard to justify any reason for them doing so.

Regardless of the validity of any of my assertions and/or suspicions listed above, I thank you, Sir, for your kind and most welcome willingness to be of service to me and all those who approach you in trying to unravel the ufological enigma.

Originally posted by The GUT
You're killing me with anticipation, but I totally understand.

I'll send you an email today...

reply to post by The GUT

4.) They are tied to the hip with intelligence factions and their prime directive(s) include ufological deception.

This is the only conclusion that makes sense to me. That said, I still think it's more a case of truth sprinkled with lies, than lies sprinkled with truth.

Having been around at the time, I do recall a period in the 80's when the idea of disclosure was MUCH more than a rumor. In fact, I'd wager that the UFO CoverUp Live specials were the first mainstream attempt by such factions to see just how much the public would absorb and believe regarding the subject. While the specials were the most visible efforts, there were others as well...movies that put a different spin on aliens, for example.

The problem though, is separating the wheat from the chaff......

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
I'll send you an email today...

I think I closed all of the accounts I had made for the specific purpose of discussing these issues once I felt they were compromised. I'll create another one and get it to you. Thanks!!

Originally posted by The GUT
[ think I closed all of the accounts I had made for the specific purpose of discussing these issues once I felt they were compromised. I'll create another one and get it to you. Thanks!!

Okay.

Have you been in touch with Kit Green?

I haven't wanted to bother him until I've done some more homework - but I keep getting tempted to see if he will answer a few questions (e.g. in relation to a thread I've been planning about a searchable archive of CIA documents about UFOs akin to the thread I posted about an archive of the FBI's UFO documents)...

reply to post by Gazrok
Yeah, it's hard to get around #4. And I concede that the theory that our birds might be a part of official disclosure has to remain on the table to some degree.

If that were the case, however, then we might be looking at a "disclosure" that some form of the inter-extra-ultra-dimensional hypothesis is what is being hidden. Col. Alexander in various writings--most notably his most recent book--strongly suggests he leans that way.

Still and all, I believe that the weight of all the information, taken as a whole, more closely adheres to the thesis I presented here.

I sincerely than you for weighing in, and contrary to my strong suspicions and assertions, I do my best to keep an open mind and am willing to reconsider any of my theories in light of new information.