All 9 people injured in Friday's shooting near the Empire State Building were wounded by Police

The police were cowboy idiots that deserve to be fired.
Sometimes the police allow people to get away, yes allow them to fully escape!!
Hard to believe?
Not if you have the publics safety in mind.
Years back in my town there was a 70 MPH limit on police cars, these officers knew that if they went over 70 that they had broken policy and would be fired.
These nyc cowboys screwed up plain and simple.
Had they have known what they were doing they would have allowed the individual to get away to a better secluded spot and then attempted to apprehend him.
Sure, the man killed one person already but there were no indications that he was looking for more victims.
Now if he was running wild shooting in every direction, then sure take the chance.
Bottom line some nyc cops screwed up and it is gonna cost the city, good thing there will be no accidental death benefits paid out.
Now the ricochet bs is a whole other story, flower pots do not cause frags, and ricochets do no go all willy nilly like many want you to believe.
I have extensive experience here.
If you fire a round at the sidewalk, it will hit and follow the path of least resistance roughly 10 to 12 inches from the ground.
There is no bouncing 7 or 10 times like they show in hollywood.

reply to post by roadgravel

It depends upon when the guy goes down.

I'm not justifying what happened. I'd like more information though.

reply to post by Hefficide


Ah! Ok, my bad. I didn't know what the other thread was about and assumed that you were stating that the LEO's performance was as good as we should expect from them.

Wonder how they stopped people in the old days before as person could easily fire 6+ shots in a few seconds.

ETS: Maybe that is part of the situation, it is easy to just fire off many rounds in a couple of seconds. Quantity over quality.

reply to post by g146541


Ynet has a video of the police taking down the shooter here.

www.ynetnews.com...

It really isn't obvious to me how all those people were injured by the police?

reply to post by AlphaHawk



I watched that video. I read the accompanying article. So who was the individual in the grey suit? Suspected gunman? Innocent bystander?

Who ever the individual was, if suspected gunman, the individual was too close to be missed by all that wild gunfire.

If innocent bystander, the individual was too close to not be seen by the policing officers.

Is there any information regarding the video that details who the individual in the grey suit was?






Article provided by peruvianmonk answers my question.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
But, I thought having more cars at a scene of a shooting would keep people safe???

These are trained police officers...and even they can't control their cars in broad daylight. Can you imagine if 5-10 people had automobiles in Aurora inside a smokey dark movie theater???

Some people want you to believe that if other people had cars , they would have taken down the driver with one clean hit and been the hero...I think this pretty much proves them wrong.

oh i can do the straw man dance also.

Nothing that happened that day "proves" anything, and all of you positing that it does are being silly and disingenuous. This doesn't "prove" gun control is good or bad. Just stop with all of your self righteous indignation.

Originally posted by sputniksteve
Nothing that happened that day "proves" anything, and all of you positing that it does are being silly and disingenuous. This doesn't "prove" gun control is good or bad. Just stop with all of your self righteous indignation.

i agree with you in several ways, but one thing is very wrong with this scenario and that is that these officers chose to shoot at the perp with innocent people behind him. that's the first thing you learn when beginning arms training is make sure of what's beyond the target. never shoot at anything you cannot destroy, including whats behind the target. they did screw that up.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
www.cnn.com...

There's your missing link.

"Collateral damage" - 9 innocent civilians injured by the police. Now, try to tell us the police are humans and not a militarized mercenary corps! Collateral damage is a MILITARY term. "Lou Palumbo - Director, Elite Group LTD., FMR. Police Officer" - on the video used the term.

Edit - 16 police rounds were shot? Geesh! 9 rounds by one cop and 7 rounds by the other cop! That's some lousy shooting!

One of those wounded, Erica Solar, was on her way to get a cup of coffee at Dunkin' Donuts when a bullet tore through the back of her leg, her brother said. The Manhattan receptionist is being treated at the city's Bellevue Hospital.

Robert Asika, a 23-year-old city tour guide, was on his way to work when he got caught in the crossfire.

"When I turned around, I saw a guy reach in his suit and he pulled out a gun," he told CNN affiliate WCBS. "I guess he shot at the police officer. And the police officer shot him. And one of them shot me in the arm, and I fell."

edit on 25/8/2012 by Trexter Ziam because: (no reason given)

Do they teach Cops to be nothing more than spray and pray n00bs?

for those unfamiliar with the term Spray and Pray

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


No doubt about it, it appears there were some mistakes made. However I hate to say it, hind sight is 20/20. Its hard to justify their actions but at the same time hard to condemn them. I would guess they thought they were doing the right thing, and who knows if they were.

I believe there is much to discuss, but all of this "This proves gun control works/doesn't work" posturing is illogical and has no business in this discussion. If you want to be emotional about the subject start a blog. (not directed at poster above me, just in general).

*edit* The same people making generalizations about gun control are the same ones assuming that every police officer is a crack shot that can shoot a penny at a 1000 yards with their pistol held sideways. You are terribly wrong, just because you have a badge and a gun you are not a pistol spinning trick shot cowboy. You think the NYPD makes concessions and mistakes in every area except fire arms training and practice? Please.


Again, I am not directing this towards you Littleblackeagle, but I don't want to be so crass as to point out who I am talking to.

Don't get me wrong. They were sloppy. I'm just saying that people panic and that's what appears to have happened here. I don't believe there was any malevolence involved. I do think there is a need for more training and a lot of changes to policy.

Personally I'd like to see more power go back to the civilian to defend themselves. After a time it became that the law favored the criminal. Everyone became sue happy and caught in and endless loop of trying to be politically correct that we lost sight of basic wrongs and rights.

how did these idiots miss 9 times?

no need to fire 16 times a 1 person.

both should be fired for being poor marksmen.

Are ATS members that suprised that the police showed little or no consideration for others. They judt opened fire and to hell with the consequences. Sounds like what the UK police would do.

They probably panicked when # popped off..

So whats with all these shootings? Demonic possession?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
For the people who say that an event like Aurora would have been prevented if there were more armed people in that theater, this just proves that they are wrong.

I disagree, both instances provided drastically different line of sight situations. One of them would have been favorable for responding fire, one wasn't.

You can't compare apples to oranges.

Considering they were on the crowded streets in New York City, you would thing they would have pulled their tasers first. How many times do you need to shoot a guy before he's left for dead? I think once someone pulls a gun on the police, the police justify using all the bullets in their chamber. Take that for pulling a gun on us.

reply to post by WeRpeons

Right. You have a gun pointed at you and you're going to pull out a taser.
Good luck with that. Do you know what the range of a taser is?

So easy to say the cops blew it. How many of you have had a gun pointed at you? Maybe you think they should have waited for him to open fire?

reply to post by Phage


I have had a gun pointed at me. More than once, and I have never lost control. I found that it actually narrowed my concentration unbelievably. What could possibly be the point of all the training provided to LEOs if we can't expect more from them in times of crisis than my teenaged niece?

Really, why go to the trouble? Just grab untrained people off the street and hand them a gun and a badge. "Don't worry about what to do if you are in a dangerous situation, just do what ever you feel. We don't expect anything else!"

I expect more. And so should you.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

How can you so readily put trained police officers and can't control their gunfire in one sentence ?? If they were trained properly this wouldn't have happened. If they were trained properly they would have worried about innocent bystanders as much as themselves.