Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by DeusExonly somone who's served has any decent notions about war, and they should be only ones to make a final decision about if war is made.

Except you forget that those who haven't been to war will be more likely to look to avoid it for their country.

The army ensures liberty, not peaceniks. I leave Oct 28th for Basic.

Only the truth can ensure liberty.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by Jamuhn]

Wouldn't say that. I'd say that former service personnel have an idea of what it takes to go to war, and what doesn't. I'd say having been there makes them less likely to declare war for stupid reasons because they know the cost, and more likely to go to war when needed, instead of curling up in a fetal ball around their bongs.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
I'd say having been there makes them less likely to declare war for stupid reasons because they know the cost, and more likely to go to war when needed, instead of curling up in a fetal ball around their bongs.

Army is the last place you go if you want to develop morals. The army will only not attack somewhere if they will lose or if the benefits outweight the cost. That's the extent of their morals.

As well, equating drug addiction with opposition to war doesn't much sense especially to an American considering that our war-monger president is a former drug addict.

You seem to be confusing hubris with knowledge. And sadly you seem to be paying for it with a disdain for non-combatants.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by Jamuhn]

If you don't have something to say that contributes to the thread topic, why don't you go over to Chit Chat and discuss your views of those who have the courage to make the world safe place to be an annoyance.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If you don't have something to say that contributes to the thread topic, why don't you go over to Chit Chat and discuss your views of those who have the courage to make the world safe place to be an annoyance.

What an asinine statement, you know I am perfectly on topic. You just can't handle what I am saying. I don't have any problem with soldiers, but I do have a problem with unnecessary wars and people who disrespect those that are not in the military.

Get over yourself.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by Jamuhn]

Because I don't support what is being done with the soldiers. I support the soldiers and the army, but I simply cannot, up to this point, support the people that tell them where to go and who to fight.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by Omniscient]

I don't dislike those not in the military, just the peaceniks who would disassemble the military or prevent them from what needs doing. The blood-for-oil, whining masses who demand the impossible. The Starbucks-smashing, rock-throwing, placcard waving types who make out every military man and woman to be a bloodthirsty babykiller.

And there are a LOT of them.

As for truth versus force of arms, you need both. But truth isn't going to fight the Nazis, or Islamic fundementalism, or keep others from invading your soil.

DE

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Get over yourself.

You've told why you don't serve. The topic is, Why Haven't You Enlisted? It is not, What do you think of those who do?

Please stay on topic and stop annoying the membership.

[edit on 2006/10/14 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by DeusEx
I don't dislike those not in the military, just the peaceniks who would disassemble the military or prevent them from what needs doing. The blood-for-oil, whining masses who demand the impossible. The Starbucks-smashing, rock-throwing, placcard waving types who make out every military man and woman to be a bloodthirsty babykiller.

And there are a LOT of them.

As for truth versus force of arms, you need both. But truth isn't going to fight the Nazis, or Islamic fundementalism, or keep others from invading your soil.

DE

Pure FUD!! We need to be mean and nasty because those people over there, whom we can see and haven't done anything to us, are mean and nasty and you better be afraid because they will come over here and kill you!! Maybe that frieghtens some people, but others are smart enough to know that since violence leads to more violence, any military used for anything other than defensive purposes only invites more violence.

BTW - most of the "peaceniks" that you dislike, have it very true in their minds as it is in your. The military is baby killers, they are killers and not one of them should be ashamed of it. They were trained by their country to be killers. The problem is when "our killers" are not used against "their killers", but rather "their people". I doubt many people have a huge problem with GI Joe killing GI Hammed - but when GI Joe goes around and starts to kill civilians and unarmed people, firing on reporters and sending 10 rounds into a mad they dragged from his house most of humanity will say you've gone too far, which should be obvious don't you think?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The topic is, Why Haven't You Enlisted? It is not, What do you think of those who do?

The two are inextricably linked, it doesn't take a philosopher to figure that one out.

Please stay on topic and stop annoying the membership.

How about you stop annoying me and take yourself to BTS.

This is my discussion.

That's why I'm here.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The topic is, Why Haven't You Enlisted? It is not, What do you think of those who do?

The two are inextricably linked, it doesn't take a philosopher to figure that one out.

Grady's point is valid. You ARE off topic.

well,2 years from now i'll be enlisting in the marines (if for some reason we dont have to enstate a draft by then). I'm 19 now,will be 20 in feb. For the record,9/11 has no say in why i choose to join. I have a family history of bein in the military,and i've wanted it since i was a kid. I was all for afghanistan,but when we changed gears and went to that "other" place i was left scratching my head.

I do not support the war,but i have lost friends there,and have friends there. People give me crap for wanting to enlist while things are so bad in iraq. I always joke and say " ok,i'll wait till things calm down first" . I look at like this: I will get sent wherever it is uncle sam sees fit for me to go.Whether i agree or not is a mute at that point. All that matters is surviving,and doing my best help ensure the survival of the men in my squad.

So i for one am enlisting. A little off topic but the new documentary "the war tapes" and "gunner palace" are great views into what's it's like being there.

Congrats, Spanish.

Gunner's Palace was certainly enjoyable. You might consider reading Generation Kill by Evan Wright, or watching Ears, Open. Eyeballs, Click.

You get it. I think you get what I was trying to say, way back in the thread.

DE

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
well,2 years from now i'll be enlisting in the marines....

Read this before you join the Marines. You won't regret it. If your mean the US Marines, that is. It's still a good read though.

First to Fight

Thank you DE and Grady. I'll check out those books next time i have some spare cash. (whenver that is). Btw,when i said marines i did mean the USMC

Well for one I don't think you can call it a war don't you need an enemy to have a war? All the States are doing is telling half lies and invading countries. If there was real threat to North America ( U.S. and Canada) I would enlist. But to go half way around the world for no reason just to bully an area of the world I totally disagree with. I believe in defending my country or countries ( U.S and Canada) but only if there was a real threat.

One other thing, I support our troops 100% and pray for there safety every day.
Don't blame them for being there, they have a hard enough job without there own people critising them..

Sorry if I got a bit off topic.

Originally posted by DeusEx
I don't dislike those not in the military, just the peaceniks who would disassemble the military or prevent them from what needs doing.

But you are essentially saying that if you don't join the military, you don't have a valid say in the world.

As for truth versus force of arms, you need both. But truth isn't going to fight the Nazis, or Islamic fundementalism, or keep others from invading your soil.

But truth will always be truth, you cannot corrupt that. The army has all to often been used for nefarious means and the reasons for fighting been all too vague.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn

But you are essentially saying that if you don't join the military, you don't have a valid say in the world.

Heinlein's thoughts, but as far as the decision to go to war goes...well, Gotta agree with him. As far as I'm concerned, those blood-for-oil types don't display a lick of sense anyways. I've gotten to be a bit old-fashioned. If you aren't willing to serve your country beyond casting a vote, well...I don't know. There's more ways to serve your country than the army- EMTs, Coast Guard, police, firefighters, salvation army, etc. Enlistment just happens to be open to just about anyone. If you can clerk, if you can cook, if you can play in a brass band or predict the weather, you can help your countrymen.

But truth will always be truth, you cannot corrupt that. The army has all to often been used for nefarious means and the reasons for fighting been all too vague.

Well, how about we give this a try: We give a a man the truth, and we give a psychopath a gun. We lock them in a room, and see who follows who. Truth is nice, but without force of arms it's pretty useless.

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by Jamuhn

But you are essentially saying that if you don't join the military, you don't have a valid say in the world.

If you can clerk, if you can cook, if you can play in a brass band or predict the weather, you can help your countrymen.

But the cook or the brass band player doesn't know more about war than the international diplomat.

But truth will always be truth, you cannot corrupt that. The army has all to often been used for nefarious means and the reasons for fighting been all too vague.

Well, how about we give this a try: We give a a man the truth, and we give a psychopath a gun. We lock them in a room, and see who follows who. Truth is nice, but without force of arms it's pretty useless.

I hope you are not saying you would rather be on the side of the psychpath. That's why many people don't join the army, especially now, because they don't want to be on that side, even if they have to die at the hands of such a pyschopath.