Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by stumason
So many things are banned or looked down upon over there. Gay's, gambling, the drinking age limit, whats on TV, certain books, race, stem cell research, the list goes on.

I can do much more in the Uk than in the US, bar own a gun. I don't even want one, so that's that.

You're not being fair. Gambling is legal just about everywhere, now, and if it's not you can get to where it is without too much hassle and if that bothers you, you can always move to where it is.

Gays are a protected class of people, as we have very harsh penalties for hate crimes and violations of civil rights and virtually any crime against gays, or other minorities for that matter, by anyone straight and/or white is more than likely to fall into one of those categories.

Stem cell research is legal in the US, but currently, Federal funding is denied and many agree with that position. Liberals rarely point that out.

Personally, I don't know of any books that are banned in the US. The First Amendment is very robust.

The drinking age is 21 here and that change came about in the states with lower drinking ages when the Congress tied the drinking age to Federal highway money, as they also did with the legal blood alcohol limit.

I think you'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument that the British are more free than Americans.

Stem cell research is legal, but without federal funding, most labs are forced to abandon research, because if they receive any funding at all in the first place, they can't go into stem cells without losing it (and most of the places that would do this research well are government funded). I'm not pro-stem cell research, but just pointing it out.

I'm all for protecting the first amendment, but some of the content out there these days is too much...TV should be censored much more than it is, movies, video games, etc. Children are so impressionable, and the massive amounts of violence, drugs, and sex all around them is not a good thing. There are PG-13 movies out now that would have been rated X back in the days...

As for gambling, it's not really one of those things most people care about. It goes on everywhere, or near almost anywhere anyway...you can gamble online if you want. Alcohol...the age should be 21 with all the crazy teenagers out driving, combine that with alcohol and it's a bad combo.

For the guy who suggested anarchy, you probably don't really mean that but...of course it wouldn't work, and we would probably just kill each other off pretty quick. If you are gay and in the military, just keep it to yourself...no one wants people defending the country who are walking around with that little bounce in their step, checking out the other guys. Let the "openly gay"/"flamers" in and we will have to create a cupcake brigade in every force, and we know how succesful they would be in battle.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by Shoktek]

Ok, maybe I'm not being completely fair.

America is often perceived to be a land where one can buy a gun or drive a car at 16, but where you can't buy a beer till your 21, people go nuts because a nipple is on TV or where people seem indoctrinated by the bible to the point of psychosis.

Perception is often different to the reality, I suppose. You guys would know better than I what the reality is like in the US.

I do apologise..

Originally posted by stumason
Ok, maybe I'm not being completely fair.

America is often perceived to be a land where one can buy a gun or drive a car at 16, but where you can't buy a beer till your 21, people go nuts because a nipple is on TV or where people seem indoctrinated by the bible to the point of psychosis.

Perception is often different to the reality, I suppose. You guys would know better than I what the reality is like in the US.

I do apologise..

Unfortunately you are not so far off stumason....there is always a basis of truth behind a stereotype.

....yes America is saturated with sexual images and yet we are terrified of sexuality (actually I think its that they are more terrified of the thought that somebody else might be having a better time at it than we are ...hence the funnymentalist fear that you can somehow be recruited into becoming gay as if gay sex is so much hotter than straight sex).

....We have lunatics who think we should be allowed to have guns everywhere to prevent gun violence. The only reason I am not in favor of limiting the right to arm bears is that if guns are outlawed only the government will have guns and that scares me far more than any criminal.

.....We imagine ourselves as a sober, stoic people, kinda like modern day Romans of the early Republic (this is true, that ideal was part of our founding myths...the citizen soldier...Washington=Cincinnatius ) but alcohol and alcoholism are deeply embeded in our society and the notion that a drink is required to have fun is endemic. Membership in AA is way up, not to mention NA and all the other 12 step programs. We have become terrified of drugs yet the moment we have a health problem we reach for a drug to fix it. The dicotomy is amazing. We have taken to heart the old 60's hippie adage of better living through chemistry...just so long as you don't enjoy yourself while doing it.

.... and despite protestations to the contrary we are easily as saturated with religion as Iran or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan etc and in many cases just as fanatic. We don't need suicide bombers we use rockets to bomb our opponents back to the stone age. The only reason the hard right funnymentalists have not taken over our government and imposed a theocracy is the nature of our governmental system...its too unwieldy and complex but God knows they try, and if they actually succeeded they would be just as inflexible and intolerant as as any Taliban.

We actually have religious leaders (and political ones as well) who have proposed that to lay waste to the environment will help hasten the advent (James Watts, Reagan's first Sec, of the Interior famously said that Christ would come when the last tree was cut down.) And in regards to the environment we have many a politician (and business leaders) who know the price of everything and the value of nothing...but of course we are not alone in the world with this.

I love my country but I refuse to look at her through rose colored glasses...I prefer to see her warts and all and still love.

Back to the whole gays in the military thing for a moment...the notion that gays are incompatable with the military is absurd...the most feared fighting force in the ancient world was the Greek phlanax which was composed of paired lovers becasue of their loyality to each other. Remember Achilles and Pratolous?



[edit on 5-11-2006 by grover]

Originally posted by grover
Unfortunately you are not so far off stumason....there is always a basis of truth behind a stereotype.

More like flawed perception of a certain group of people, which becomes the "stereotype" for those who can't be bothered to interact with said group of people, maybe out of fear, or something else. Truth? No.

....yes America is saturated with sexual images and yet we are terrified of sexuality (actually I think its that they are more terrified of the thought that somebody else might be having a better time at it than we are

...hence the funnymentalist fear that you can somehow be recruited into becoming gay as if gay sex is so much hotter than straight sex).

And you don't think that all of the sex themes in the media aren't affecting children? Yea, we should all be allowed to do/act/think as we wish if it doesn't hurt someone else, and free speech, but those who are under 18 are still not considered to be legal adults/citizens, and they should therefore not be exposed to such things in the media. There are many studies showing how the media affects a child's developing brain. And how many school shootings or child murderers did we have 50 years ago even? Hardly any. Now they can practice it on a video game before going out and doing it in real life. Violence and sex. The whole thing about being "gay" can certainly recruit impressionable children into thinking they are gay, just as them being recruited into thinking violence and sex are the ultimate goals in society. There is way too much "out there" for kids to be reading about. Hormones are still surging and the brain is still changing even past the age of 21.

....We have lunatics who think we should be allowed to have guns everywhere to prevent gun violence. The only reason I am not in favor of limiting the right to arm bears is that if guns are outlawed only the government will have guns and that scares me far more than any criminal.

That's interesting, because usually the ones who break into homes and commit murders are criminals, and are not the work of anyone related to the military or government. We made sacrifices in daily life to get soldiers weapons and supplies during the world wars, and because of this, we are a strong, independent country. Because of people who took up arms and went to die at war fighting with guns. If there were a way to get rid of all guns and dangerous weapons in the world, I would fully support it, but it is impossible. The only way to combat the criminals who have guns, is to have our own guns. The strongest nations in the world (US and Russia) have had this same policy of deterrence and assured mutual destruction, and it is a bit of a barbaric mindset, but it works better than anything else at the moment...if we outlaw guns, the criminals will still commit crimes. Although we do have to make some effort to limit access by children..

.....We imagine ourselves as a sober, stoic people, kinda like modern day Romans of the early Republic (this is true, that ideal was part of our founding myths...the citizen soldier...Washington=Cincinnatius ) but alcohol and alcoholism are deeply embeded in our society and the notion that a drink is required to have fun is endemic. Membership in AA is way up, not to mention NA and all the other 12 step programs. We have become terrified of drugs yet the moment we have a health problem we reach for a drug to fix it. The dicotomy is amazing. We have taken to heart the old 60's hippie adage of better living through chemistry...just so long as you don't enjoy yourself while doing it.

Yeah...so what? Everyone wants to live longer and be happy. If they have the money and the means to do so in a free society, why do you want to stop them in their pursuit of happiness? As long as someone is having their fun at home in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else, then what business of yours is it? I don't think anyone is "terrified" of drugs anymore, that propaganda died in the 60s. Most people I know will occasionally have a couple drinks or maybe smoke a cigar, but most of them are responsible about it, and aware of their actions. The only danger here is the people who go too far and let the drug control them...and this is, once again, user error. A drunk man in a car is just as dangerous as a criminal with a gun in hand, but we won't outlaw the car...we have to track down the stupid people and lock them up, or help them change. But like you said about sex, maybe you are jealous of people having "too much fun"...we need to keep drugs out of the media and hands of children, but grown people can make their own decisions as long as they don't hurt others, imo. Same thing with guns. At least drug addiction serves as a form of population control, which you might support, judging from your critical assumptions about fellow americans.

.... and despite protestations to the contrary we are easily as saturated with religion as Iran or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan etc and in many cases just as fanatic. We don't need suicide bombers we use rockets to bomb our opponents back to the stone age. The only reason the hard right funnymentalists have not taken over our government and imposed a theocracy is the nature of our governmental system...its too unwieldy and complex but God knows they try, and if they actually succeeded they would be just as inflexible and intolerant as as any Taliban.

Religion isn't the problem. I'm not aware of any religious texts that order people to go off and kill others. I do know that there are many crazy/fanatical people in the world who will do crazy things no matter what they believe or don't believe. There are also those who recognize the power of religion, and use their position to control others, with a so-called religious message. Many people in the middle east are incredibly peaceful, loving people, and will tell you that islam does not condone violence. Many people in the west are incredibly peaceful, loving people, and will tell you that christianity does not condone violence. Once again, this is due to user error. Crazy/violent/powerful people can be dangerous with religion. Normal people, those with morals, regardless of religious affiliation, will not be fooled by these false prophets and leaders, or so-called religious wars.

We actually have religious leaders (and political ones as well) who have proposed that to lay waste to the environment will help hasten the advent (James Watts, Reagan's first Sec, of the Interior famously said that Christ would come when the last tree was cut down.) And in regards to the environment we have many a politician (and business leaders) who know the price of everything and the value of nothing...but of course we are not alone in the world with this.

Ignorant/radical/fanatical nutjobs and/or power/money hungry politicians. This occurs throughout the entire world my friend, we are no exception.

I love my country but I refuse to look at her through rose colored glasses...I prefer to see her warts and all and still love.

It seems you would like to love "your" country, but you still haven't accepted "our" country. Stop judging your fellow people, and realize that you are also imperfect, lazy, rich, lucky, and more educated than most of the world, because of the fact that you live in America. You fall into the same stereotypes which you are so determined to use when you look at other people, or when you tell people of this country. When you stop judging me, I will stop judging you...and vice versa. We all have the right to express our opinions, but we don't have the right to use stereotypes in an effort to slander others in our society. Just my opinion.

I did enlist, enlist in the sense that I have a Bachelor's Degree. I volunteered for Officer Candidate School, as an Army Infantry Officer, key word, Infantry. I was approved by the MEPS Colonel and then Disqualified by a civilian Security Officer. I was asked "how many times in the past 12 months have you drank alcohol?' I answered "Well I was a senior in college, maybe 16 times....." I was immediately disqualified. No servicemen I have talked to since the verdict has had a problem with my answer, including an Army JAG CPT.

All I want to do is serve, and right now I am in a 4 month limbo appeals process to find out if I will be allowed to perform a service that the majority of America says is necessary, but will not do anything about.

Originally posted by Baphomet79
I was asked "how many times in the past 12 months have you drank alcohol?' I answered "Well I was a senior in college, maybe 16 times....."

I never heard such a thing.

That seems like moderate drinking to me.

Try a different service.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
That seems like moderate drinking to me.

Probably too little for infantry.

Just testing the waters again. How goes it Grady? Seems like a good long topic.

On the tact of the last post, I had a friend going into defense IT contract work where he listed me as a reference. Bad move. The Colonel checking on him showed up at my house one night unannounced during a party, invited himself in and began 20 questions about my friends drinking and "socializing" patterns while a girl in my lap chugged tequila. I was completely honest, and said I'd let you talk to him about it but he's passed out upstairs.

He was hired the next day.

By the way, has Charlie Rangle's latest draft nonsense come up in this thread yet?

This really isn't the thread to discuss Charlie Rangel.

Here's a thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Welcome back, RANT.

Well I won't harp on Charlie here then, but I'll answer your original question.

I'm old, fat and lazy and the pay sucks.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Baphomet79
I was asked "how many times in the past 12 months have you drank alcohol?' I answered "Well I was a senior in college, maybe 16 times....."

I never heard such a thing.

That seems like moderate drinking to me.

Try a different service.

Moderate? Crikey, thats virtually tee-total!

Baphomet, you should apply to the British Army... Drinking is virtually mandatory!

Heck,

My Recruiter took me out drinking the night I passed the Physical.....

I don't remember the night after the ASVAB... Except the next morning I was dead I think...

Semper

Originally posted by stumason
Moderate? Crikey, thats virtually tee-total!

Baphomet, you should apply to the British Army... Drinking is virtually mandatory!

It is for the RN . why do you think the NAAFI's around the UK are literally bars.

This war is far diffrent from the war then, for one the people you fought were a military not people fighting for a religon. They were fighting for their nation just as you. Looking through history at wars fought for tribal god images I have found that these tend to be the bloody nasty and unholy.

Originally posted by stumason
Ok, maybe I'm not being completely fair.

America is often perceived to be a land where one can buy a gun or drive a car at 16, but where you can't buy a beer till your 21, people go nuts because a nipple is on TV or where people seem indoctrinated by the bible to the point of psychosis.

Perception is often different to the reality, I suppose. You guys would know better than I what the reality is like in the US.

I do apologise..

Actualy as an American that went to England for a while I do have to say that England has much more freedoms thain America does.

Actualy England just seems more tolorant thain America

Well they can afford to because they have the most surveilence cameras of any country on Earth. They see invasion of privacy as no big thing. If your not doing anything wrong why would you object to a police camera on every street corner.


Big Brother is in England.

[edit on 11/27/2006 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by bodebliss
Well they can afford to because they have the most surveilence cameras of any country on Earth. They see invasion of privacy as no big thing. If your not doing anything wrong why would you object to a police camera on every street corner.


Big Brother is in England.

[edit on 11/27/2006 by bodebliss]

Actually, very few if any are controlled by Police. Most are private CCTV for property protection and are unmonitored unless a crime has already taken place, when the Police will take the tape.

Those that are monitored, in town centres for example, are done by local council employees and not Police.

So, no, Big Brother is not in England.

Unless you mean the dreadful TV show that gave birth to human whale-pig that is Jade Goody...

I don't want to encourage this thread to go too far off topic, but relative to the points made about England and surveillance, here is a thread that does suggest that Big Brother is in England, whether or not Big Brother is corporate or governmental.

British Police May Start Monitoring Conversations On The Street!

To that, I disagree. The police can kiss my hairy, white behind before they start any "V for Vendetta" type surveillance.

Capturing my image is one thing. Recorded my conversations is an entirely different kettle of aquatic beasty.....

i have another reason why i haven't enlisted

the fact that as a senior in a public high school i'm constantly bothered by recruiters from all branches during the school day

sometimes at lunch

i'd be okay if it was just lunch

HOWEVER
i'm bothered during class

and that is why i will never join a branch of the armed forces

even if i believed in dying for my country, which i don't