Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Why didn't Britain declare a war on terror?

I think you'll find that the British SAS has been actively involved in operations against terrorist cells across the globe for many years.

I really don't have an answer your questions. Had the British asked the US for help, I think something might have been done.

The US administration quietly left a legal loophole open for nearly 20 years that allowed the US based NORAID group to fund the IRA, despite protestations by several British Governments. Bill Clinton closed it.

I don't know anyone on this side of the Atlantic who even knows what's going on with Northern Ireland, either why they want their independence or why Britain won't let them have it.

The "official" story is that Catholic minority in Northern Ireland wanted a reunion with the South and for the Protestants to be driven out. The actual truth is that the IRA were terrorists, drug runners, arms dealers and acted as local mafia as well. Just to let you know, the IRA had links with Libya, the PLO, the forerunner to AQ (the Mujahadeen) and various other European terrorist organisations, such as Black September, ETA and the Bader Meinhoff Gang.

As it it is, the IRA has never presented a global threat.

The Islamic terrorists have struck the US, Britain, Spain, Maylasia, India, Pakistan, and others I can't remember now and it won't stop until the threat is eliminated.

Just to let you know, the IRA struck in England, Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Germany and Gibraltar. They tried to assinate the British Prime Minister by lobbing mortars into Downing Street, and they also tried to assasinate the entire British Government by blowing up a hotel during a party conference.

Anyway, enough of this. Lets get back to your original thread

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why didn't Britain declare a war on terror?

14TH intelligence company, SAS, SBS, british army take your pick of the services, they all fought the IRA in NI.

I really don't have an answer your questions. Had the British asked the US for help, I think something might have been done.

The US supplied the IRA with money, weapons and men.

either why they want their independence or why Britain won't let them have it.

The IRA is a terrorist cell that complains at being the minority in NI and the majority wants to stay. The UK has nothing to do with it.
[quote[
As it it is, the IRA has never presented a global threat.

The IRA is global.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why didn't Britain declare a war on terror?

I really don't have an answer your questions. Had the British asked the US for help, I think something might have been done.

I don't know anyone on this side of the Atlantic who even knows what's going on with Northern Ireland, either why they want their independence or why Britain won't let them have it.

As it it is, the IRA has never presented a global threat.

that has to be one of the most uneducated posts ive seen throughout my 3 years of ATS. this is the only time ive felt insulted on ATS.

seeings i had a family member killed by the IRA, i am going to waste time responding to this.

Many European countries helped the UK deal with the IRA, France, Germany, Spain and even Israel helped to stop the IRA from recieving arms and training from Europe and the middle east. they even do now when it comes to the RIRA and the CIRA.

As for the remark about asking for help, if i recall, the UK protested many times to main figures of US administrations having tea and dinners with leading Sinn Fein politicans. It took us a while to get the FBI to step in and prevent the IRA from getting arms from the states.

many Americans did know what was going on Northern Ireland, your money was filling the pockets and buy the weapons for the IRA, its funny how quickly Americans forget their support for terrorism after 9/11.

I think its hilarious that we hear the US media complaining about the UK not dealing with domestic islamic terrorism even though the US had no problem in allowing Irish-American politicans to support the IRA. its about as hilarious as American members on ATS saying to us Brits on 7/7 "now you know what its like"

The war on terrorism has been going on for decades in Europe, which you Americans seem not to understand. Terrorism did not start on 9/11

i REALLY do hope this is the last time a UK member has to explain American support for the IRA....

The war on terrorism has been going on for decades in Europe, which you Americans seem not to understand. Terrorism did not start on 9/11

Indeed, to which many a Yank does not seem to realise, nor learn from, the methods we employed to rid ourselves of such vermin.

I said it months ago and I'll say it again. It's a criminal act that should be dealt with as any other. Blowing up other countries and slaughtering their countrymen is hardly likely going to make a would-be terrorist lay down his arms.

i REALLY do hope this is the last time a UK member has to explain American support for the IRA....

I doubt it. I've said it myself far too many times to care about. But, worth a try, I suppose.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Excuse me, but there are plenty of ways for pacifists to serve.

And well I know that. As I said before, I don't believe in war. Serving in a war at all violates my ethics, I refuse to support war. There are other better ways to deal with problems. But in my lifetime, 51 yrs., I've never seen any war that the U.S. has been in that is justified. No, there are other ways that I serve my country.

You did not say anything about the Amish and Quakers, do you really consider them to be spineless?

Originally posted by forestlady

But in my lifetime, 51 yrs., I've never seen any war that the U.S. has been in that is justified. No, there are other ways that I serve my country.

Well since you were there during the Kosovo war in 1999... do you support that war?

[edit on 13-9-2006 by deltaboy]

Originally posted by infinite

i REALLY do hope this is the last time a UK member has to explain American support for the IRA....

It won't be. Quite simply they did not and still do not care. The lack of knowledge on this matter is incredible given the casualties and damage the IRA caused.

And its not just the IRA. Mention ETA and they think you're asking them when they will be somewhere. Most of the posters on here think that Black September is a CD by Linkin Park and the Bader Meinhoff Gang is from Grand Theft Auto. They think the Tamil Tigers are a baseball team and that ANC was a type of truck They've ohnly heard of the PLO and Hezbollah becasue it suits the stereotype of "crazy muslims".

I know I'm being stereotypical there but its true. You only have to read the boards to see it. Its very very sad

Terrorism did NOT start on 9/11. The USA's luck just finally ran out on that date. The rest of us had been living with it for years

Because I have a brain!

I would just like to post to echo neformore, Infinate's and Devil Wasp's statments about the IRA.

I have had friends killed and had to live under constant threat from the IRA whilst me and my family were stationed in Northern Ireland.

To here America bang on about states sponsering terrorism yet they helped finance the IRA makes me sick. To hear our U.K govenment treat us like terrorism is new is just as sick!

Infinate, this will not be the last time an American suggests this. Infact Brits with short memories are now forgetting about the IRA and as the population ages away from that time more will forget.

Grady, what do you reckon to neformore, Devil wasp's and infinate's replies? I really can't understand how you can have such a rose tinted view of your govenment....?? maybe the pain of war keeps you from seeing the truth?

Politicians tell the army where to go, Politicians are now influenced by corperations, massive corperations are only interested in financial and economical gain so therefore the army 'can' be used as a toy for business:-

Corperation - 'Mr. Politician, tell your generals to prepare for war in Iraq so we can harvest the oil fields'

Politicians - 'Yes boss, GENERALS, amass the army Iraq are a gobal threat (armyless by the way) and have weapons that can kill Americans!'

Generals - 'Yes boss, SOLIDERS we are off to Iraq to save America, your country loves you as does god. God is on your side. Remember ask no questions, just follow orders'

Soldiers - 'Yes boss, proud to serve our country and keep America safe'

Shadow - 'Corperations, Politician, Generals and soldiers are all playing their part, each rung on the ladder has no ideas whats going on above them'

??????? - 'good, their enemy is also under our control, 2 sides controlled by one power, the end game is near'



[edit on 14-9-2006 by 7th_Chakra]

This is not a discussion of the IRA and I'm going to have to tell you one more time that I have never understood the problems in Northern Ireland, nor do I know anyone who does. This situation might be different in areas of the country, such as New York and Massacheusettes, that have high populations of Irish.

As to the US sponsering the IRA, I have no knowledge of that either. If this response does not satisfy you, then that is beyond my control. British internal affairs have never interested me, so maybe that is why I don't know these things, but it's the truth.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
As to the US sponsering the IRA, I have no knowledge of that either. If this response does not satisfy you, then that is beyond my control. British internal affairs have never interested me, so maybe that is why I don't know these things, but it's the truth.

All you need to know is the U.S aided a terrorist organisation in killing innocents. If this response does not satisfy you it is beyond my control, but it is the truth.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by 7th_Chakra]

Then why don't you open a thread and offer some proof to this accusation? I'm sure it would generate much interest and yield many points.

This war is unjust, immoral and illegal. I would not enlist to fight and I would be a conscientious objector to a draft.
Forcing liberty onto others is not liberty.


[edit on 14/9/06 by shanti23]

Sounds like a point thread to me. I couldn't be serious if I started this thread, I know that. I will always and forever fight for my country. But, this is not a war. This is a corporate sponsered reach for power, in my opinion. Unfortunately, that is the reason I will not join the service. Don't get me wrong, if the enemy was on our US soil, I would fight even if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my own Governments fault. I salute all service men and woman, because I believe most go into this with intentions of strong morals, and unswerving loyalty to there/our country. But, this is no war. It's ridiculous and embarrassing.

Originally posted by DbleTrble
Don't get me wrong, if the enemy was on our US soil, I would fight even if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my own Governments fault.

So, where is New York and Washington, DC?

If you wait to fight the enemy here, you will have already lost.

We heard all these excuses during Vietnam.

Then when they did hit us in New York and again in New York and again in DC, we still here the same excuse.

I'll be brave when they're in my backyard, but not until then.

Yeah, right.


[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
So, where is New York and Washington, DC?

If you wait to fight the enemy here, you will have already lost.

We heard all these excuses during Vietnam.

Then when they did hit us in New York and again in New York and again in DC, we still here the same excuse.

I'll be brave when they're in my backyard, but not until then.

Yeah, right.

Ummm, you don't know me, and I take offense of your lack of respect. I won't whip back, but I'm I must admit, the temptation is there. No sir. This is not a war, and we shouldn't be there!!! Tell me why we should be there? I would love to see you debunk the Govt. coverup of these supposed terrorists. Then maybe you might have a valid point.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by DbleTrble]

Duty calls. It is not for every man to judge every decision that leaders must make. The brave answer when their time comes and they contribute to the greater good. Fighting terrorists in Iraq is a far cry better than sitting on one's thumb while waiting for the next attack here. The truth is that you only believe what you choose to believe, rather than face the harsher reality.

PS

There's no need to quote the entire post above you.

[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

I didn't join because quite frankly I wouldn't be able to afford to for my family to live in California on a military wage. And I disagree, it is for every man to judge the decisions of our leaders, we live in one of the few countries in the world where citizens can openly complain and criticize the decisions of our leaders without any fear of retribution. Annoying sometimes, yes, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Plue we're not all "sitting on our thumbs" ... there are jobs here in the states that must be done regardless of what happens in the world.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Duty calls. It is not for every man to judge every decision that leaders must make. The brave answer when their time comes and they contribute to the greater good. Fighting terrorists in Iraq is a far cry better than sitting on one's thumb while waiting for the next attack here. The truth is that you only believe what you choose to believe, rather than face the harsher reality.

PS

There's no need to quote the entire post above you.

[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

There have always been arrangements for those whose service would create family hardship.

Holding our leaders responsible for their actions and refusing to serve because of those decisions are two completely different things. They don't call it service for nothing.

[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If you wait to fight the enemy here, you will have already lost.

We heard all these excuses during Vietnam.

Gee, I didn't know the Viet Cong sailed under the Golden Gate Bridge in 1975. My history lessons must have been seriously lacking.

That argument was bankrupt in 1966. It was bankrupt in 1973 and it is still bankrupt now.

What did US involvement in SVN achieve? It guaranteed communist hegemony over all of Indochina. When there had been a democratically-elected government in Cambodia prior to US involvement. What was the sum total of the US' acheivement in Cambodia? It gave recognition to a coup-installed regime that promplty lost a war it declared.

Why are the terrorists in Iraq? Because you are there.

There were exactly two terrorists in Iraq on the day of the invasion. Abu Nidal himself and one of the Black September hijackers. What did they have to do with September 11?

Those who do not take note of their history are doomed to repeat it.