Why Haven't You Enlisted?

Originally posted by pfcret
If you do not like the USofA nor appreciate the freedoms we enjoy you can always move somewhere else. You do have your rights, but remember I have mine also.

Yes you do pfcret. That is all I was trying to point out. Sheesh, think I will go down to the VFW for a $1 beer!

I can remember going feet dry from Iraq #1 and getting a warm Miller from the Flight Attendant. Kissed the ground when I got off the plane at Reagan National. But skirmish wise that was nothing compared to what Grandpa ( ball turret gunner - B24 ) PTO and my Dad, Phu Cat and Bien Hoa. Both were shot down.

From pbyrescue

02 AUGUST 1945 - Lieutenant Frank P. Hayes, pilot of "Playmate Six One", departed Morotai at 0455 in search of a missing B-24 crew that was reported down in the vicinity of 00�30'N, 126�00'E. Lieutenant Hayes arrived at the search area at 0725. After searching for approximately two hours without success, Lieutenant Hayes contacted "Playmate 62" and they started for home base together. At 1301 they were contacted by "Varmint" who had located several rafts at 170� true bearing from Cape Flesko. At 1515 Lt Hayes located the rafts 20 miles ESE of the location given. The rafts' actual position was 00�04'S, 124�41'E. A single one man raft and five one man rafts tied together. Lieutenant Hayes landed his rescue ship at 1540 in heavy swells and effected the rescue of one man from his raft. He then taxied 2 miles NNE, through heavy seas to the group of five one man rafts and picked up seven men. At 1630 he taxied North to find smoother water for take-off. At 1800 Lieutenant Hayes made four unsuccessful take-off attempts. His rescue ship was overloaded with water from taxiing, and the sea was just too rough. His crew was frantically bailing water, but large waves crashing over the ship made the effort futile. At 1850 he made one final attempt and finally the Catalina became airborne, the navigator's window broken by waves during the run. The radar, radios, and instruments were damaged by water and were of no use on the return to base. Lieutenant Hayes landed at Morotai at 2145.

Rescued B-24 crew from the 307th Bomb Group, 372nd Bomb Squadron: (P) 1Lt Eugene W. Traendly, 0-130716, (CP) 2Lt Erwin I. Eckstein, 0-2027706, (B) 2Lt Frederick F. Taucher, 0-787360, (E) S/Sgt Harry J. Dugan, 33730231, (Asst. E) S/Sgt Dempsey D. Bankus, 37730231, (Photo) S/Sgt Chester M. Stanhope, 6936821, (Nose gunner) S/Sgt Warren D. Zimmerman, 33707929, (Tail gunner) S/Sgt Joe Daly, 39580975

AIRCRAFT: OA-10A
USAAF SERNO: 44-34043
CALLSIGN: "PLAYMATE Six One"
CREW: (Pilot) 2Lt Frank P. Hayes, (Co-Pilot) 2Lt Richard E. Costine, (Navigator) 2Lt Gregersen, (Engineer) Sgt Hubbard, (Radio Operator) Sgt Miller, (Radar Operator) Sgt Hagen, (Surgical Technician) Sgt Meek

Dad was shot down in an F-100. Golden BB. When he ejected the plane was upside down. Lucky break one. Then under canopy Gen John R. Dean 1st Calvary div. happend to be flying by, saw the shoot down and picked him up and deposited him at special forces camp Tay Ninh.

Grandpa lives in Bossier City LA near Barksdale, dad in Niceville FL near Eglin. Its fun when we can all meet and walk into the VFW post together. ESPECIALY the one in Bossier. Woohoooooo.

Meant absolutly no disrespect what so ever private first class.

Although................If you retired a pfc. How many times did you get busted in rank?? ( kidding )

PARASITES, that is really being nice, Grady. There are a bunch of them in the world. There beleive that everybody owes them. One of these days they may wake up.

To JUST A PILOT, I do agree with what you say. Pardon the misunderstanding on my part. The old timers, WW2, Korea did really have a rough time just as well as the vets from Iraq, Afghanistan. Only the ones who have had their butts in the grass will understand. So go to the VFW and have a cold one. I retired with more than that , but pfc will do the job. No insult taken.

Originally posted by devilwasp
the point im trying to get is do you call people who support the ,troops mabye not the reason but the troops, parasites?

I call them self deceived. You can not support the troops and not support the mission.

Regard the following:



**Please do not Copy and Paste Entire Articles**

[edit on 25-10-2004 by TrickmastertricK]

I actually didn't copy and paste an article. It came to me as an email. Had I known that it was an article, I would have posted it as such.

[edit on 04/10/25 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


I call them self deceived. You can not suppor the troops and not support the mission.

self decivied eh . what if it is YOU that is self decievied have you thought about this or have you not.
firstly how can i not hope all our soldiers get out of this mess alive and say they done a good job and say the reason they went in was a lie?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I call them self deceived. You can not suppor the troops and not support the mission.

If this is the case then I can no longer support the troops in the capacity I was supporting them, because I cannot in good conscience support the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan knowing the deception involved to initiate these missions. If that is the will of those serving so be it.

There ARE parasites out there - FOR and AGAINST the war.

The vast majority of people however sincerely beleive what they say and feel.....Even the ones who get right up my nose with some of thier outrageous comments and insults.

There are times when I have my doubts about this war, until I choose to ignore the seemingly apparent private and commercial agendas of those directing our troops into (yeah some of them might have good reasons, but personal and commercial self interest can sure as hell be an incentive to do it).

My own personal support of the bulk of all the coalition troops is unequivical (bar those disgracing the uniform even by professional western military standards). My own support for the war that, even if by a happy coincidence to the political and commercial grounds for it, is an eventual improvement for the state of the common Iraqis and the reduction of terrorist campaigns of groups and leadership like AQ and JI to a point where it can be called criminal behaviour and not a war.

But I will never accept the the machinations of politicians and business men to get what they want at the expense of your kids and my freinds, while wrapping it in the flag.

I'm an old cynic at 36, who stopped beleiving that our political leaders do the right thing for the right reason. When it happens it is usually other factors that bring it about, and any benificial outcome for the majority of us is usually purely happy chance.

I guess my point is I am for the war, but I am not going to blame or take out my frustration on people who are not, because quite frankly, I can see why they might think that way. It is our political leaders and thier blatant and clumsily crafted lies that are to blame for this divide, not most of the people out there opposed to the war.

This board btw is not representative of the vast majority of people out there who just want to get on with life if possible. We are for the most part, just the most vocal of the extreme, even little ol middle of the road making sense of it me.

Originally posted by devilwasp
self decivied eh . what if it is YOU that is self decievied have you thought about this or have you not.
firstly how can i not hope all our soldiers get out of this mess alive and say they done a good job and say the reason they went in was a lie?

You know what, devilwasp. You live in Scotland. I don't give a flying cow chip what you think or do regarding your freedom. That's between you and your countrymen. Frankly, I think you reflect badly upon my ancestors.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by devilwasp
self decivied eh . what if it is YOU that is self decievied have you thought about this or have you not.
firstly how can i not hope all our soldiers get out of this mess alive and say they done a good job and say the reason they went in was a lie?

You know what, devilwasp. You live in Scotland. I don't give a flying cow chip what you think or do regarding your freedom. That's between you and your countrymen. Frankly, I think you reflect badly upon my ancestors.

you know what, gradyphilpott? scotland is an american ally. i think YOU reflect badly on your ancestors. go watch braveheart again. see who the scotts were mooning? that's right. the fascist roman republic imperialists. you are so caught up in the american flag, you forget what it stands for.
in NORTH KOREA, it is your DUTY to direct all efforts towards the will of THE GLORIOUS LEADER. this is EXACTLY the doctrine you are trying to push on people, here. this isn't communist, totalitarian north korea, it is corporate fascist imperialism, which is nearly indistinguishable, except that north korean brainwashing is so good, it actually makes the drones happy to serve. the glorious leader, burning bush, needs mensa programmers like you to persuade fence-sitters that they have no freedom, it is their DUTY to bend to the will of THE GLORIOUS LEADER.
the leader, as described in your heart wrenching email from overseas, has no effect on people like me, except to make us extremely sad and angry that such an honourable young man is being led to the slaughter through DECEPTION and LIES.
in korea, they teach the children in school, and they line the streets with propoganda that says, 'america is responsible for ALL our problems'. in america they teach in schools and in newspapers and sattelite broadcasts, 'the axis of evil is responsible for all your insecurity and fear'.
our schools are brainwashing institutions as much as theirs are. pearl harbour was a lie. they knew it was coming, yet let it happen. the japanese offered surrender BEFORE the nukes were dropped, but it was not accepted by the states. the truth is, they(the illuminati) wanted to SHOCK the mass consciousness SO badly, that they could have the whole world living in FEAR. it is through FEAR that people are easily manipulated.
there are no sides. there are only those who KNOW, and those who FOLLOW. those who KNOW use there advantage to maintain their advantage, and keep those who follow, ignorant. they are the bloodlines of bankers and royalty. these are just pretty legal names for MAFIA.
this homey don't play that, and i will use all my spare time to educate people as to the real nature of society(while furthering my own education, as well).

BTW, the underdogs don't always lose, oh mighty financial/military/industrial/pharmeceutical/media/gestahpo. it is long overdue time to bite the owner, fellow underdogs!

Originally posted by billybob
you know what, gradyphilpott? scotland is an american ally. i think YOU reflect badly on your ancestors. go watch braveheart again.

billybob, I don't care what you think or what your friends in yestermorrow think either. When you stop living in some fantasy world, maybe I'll start caring.

The Underdogs are also not necessarily the heros...despite the fact that might make you feel better about the situation.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by koji_K
So it was a military defeat, not just a change of opinion at home (what I call democracy in action and what some others would call damn hippie commies ruining the country.) Anyway, that's what we were taught, and to date I've seen no compelling evidence to the contrary.

This is total crap and is more indicative of your teacher's position than of the facts. I won't go into the whole subject, but the politics of the war, such as bombing the North or not, the so-called "Ho Chih Minh trail," the issues of incursions into Loas and Cambodia, which were both havens for the communists, were all influenced by public opinion and moreso, the war by fifth columnists carried out in the streets and on the college campuses of America.

When I left in 1969, there was no question in the minds of any serviceman as to who was winning the war and you can ask any veteran from that era. The politically driven Vietnamization of the war led to the protracted demise of South Vietnam.


[edit on 04/10/25 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady,

I will not lie, my teacher was an active member of a political party and like all things, I took his teachings (not that they were particularily profound) with a grain of salt. I even remember the day he taught us about Vietnam in class we had another teacher sit in to "observe"... presumably to make sure the days lesson wasn't 100% politically oriented.

But I am curious, if you admit that (and correct me if I am wrong, and you are not) it was a strategic nessecity to bomb places like laos and cambodia, to prevent the flow of arms, wouldn't the natural conclusion be to take out the arms eventually at the source? I mean they were coming into laos and cambodia and vietnam from somewhere... would you go as far to say that we should have escalated to the point of directly engaging china and perhaps russia, or am I misunderstanding you?


-koji K.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by koji_K]

[edit on 26-10-2004 by koji_K]

If I can answer as well.....those nations did not have the bomb. It was one thing for Soviet and Chinese advisors (I'm not sure about that one) to get killed in those SE Asian nations....some of them were not officially there, but it wouldve been a totally different thing to escalate a war like Vietnam into Armagedon......besides being politically un acceptable.

If I remember rightly, at one point the administration were even calling off B-52 raids in the North and strikes on Haiphong Harbour out of fear they might kill soviet merchant sailors or drop bombs on the wrong side of the boarder in China.

Grady will correct me if I am wrong I guess.

Originally posted by craigandrew
The Underdogs are also not necessarily the heros...despite the fact that might make you feel better about the situation.

heroes? i never said anything about heroes. or that anything is going to make me feel better. i mean, all things considered, i feel pretty good. i know that i am doing my part to save lives by raising the voice of dissent against the corruption that is the global corporation. i don't live in a fantasy world. the owners are hiding in plain sight, and almost anyone here can name names, and connections.
names like rothschild, windsor, carnegie, krupp, and connections like the CFR and the trilateral commission, and the commitee of three hundred, the IMF.
but, whatever, we're not interested in the truth. we just want to kick some ass, and feel good about being a team player. yeeeeeehaaaa!

Okay...then how about the underdog does not always necessarily win or deserve to.....if they did (win that is) you'd be running the country wouldnt you?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
billybob, I don't care what you think or what your friends in yestermorrow think either. When you stop living in some fantasy world, maybe I'll start caring.

with virtual reality(currently indistinguishable from real reality), we can retrieve all possible pasts and all possible futures, so we are living all times simultaneously.

you are living in the industrial age. this is the information(overload) age.
anthropomorphic physical man has disappeared into the aether of information. you are nothing. the president is nothing. 90% of the population are mere representations of cliches and archetypes. the android meme feeds the anthropomorhic physical man his history, and man thinks it is current, because we are walking backward into the future. we see everything through the rear view mirror. the android meme is the mirror. to not be a victim of this, one must first realise the patterns.

does ATS know any borders? no? then it is already a one world civilian population. the world is wired.
information overload forces people into pure pattern recognition.
my burgeoning population of freinds in yestermorrow care about you, grady. we care about everybody.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by devilwasp
the point im trying to get is do you call people who support the ,troops mabye not the reason but the troops, parasites?

I call them self deceived. You can not support the troops and not support the mission.
[edit on 04/10/25 by GradyPhilpott]

The mission was accomplished in May, 2003 when Iraq was secured and Saddam kicked out of office.

Or was that really the mission? Because now we find out that there are plans to keep troops there indefinitely, which leads to the heart of the real mission:

The publicly state reasons for invading Iraq are through-and-through lies that have morphed several times. The citizens of the US are being lied to, and the troops are being lied to.

If you support the troops, you can't send them into a war based on lies.

Trying to make people feel guilty, 'you don't support the troops if you don't support the war' is classic propaganda working as a gross appeal to emotion. You'd have to be a monkey not to see right through it.

If you claim to support the troops in a war you can't justify, then you're not supporting the troops, you're supporting stupidity. I can't justify the war, and I support the troops, so I say get those guys and gals out of there, immediately.

As far as enlisting, there are innumerable ways you can benefit America without enlisting:

Paramedic
Police Officer
Fireman
Teacher
Coach
Boy Scout / Girl Scout leader
Community Watch
Salvation Army volunteer

If you enlist, realize that you have to do so for the combat, not the college. You will sign a contract stating that you follow the orders of the President and the officers above you for the term of your enlistment. Individual choice is not an option. You are not guaranteed and in fact most likely will not be fighting for America, but American interests. You are a government assett and you are not free to speak your mind. If you are injured permanantly, you will recieve substandard care for your condition upon discharge.

Anyone telling you otherwise is lying through their teeth. If the above is acceptable to you, go for it. Otherwise, don't enlist. It's for people who are adventurous, feel immortal, and are better using their bodies than their brains, aka young people. The military won't help you accomplish many things that you can't do on your own, like, college, travel, pay, education in general, fitness, except:

The chance to play with cool weapons.
Life experience of the military.
Opportunity to kill people legally.
Exposure to combat.

Originally posted by craigandrew
Okay...then how about the underdog does not always necessarily win or deserve to.....if they did (win that is) you'd be running the country wouldnt you?

i am running the country. and so should you be. it is a 'democracy'. that means the 'government' works FOR the people, and not the people work for the benefit of a handful of ultrarich legacy criminal families. that's called 'fascism'.

the underdog i'm refering to, is anyone who's not invited to bohemian grove. that's 99% of the population, and i assume, includes you. do you want to pay compound interest on your death guage, oops, i mean mortgage. do you think it's okay to extinguish indegenous peoples and clearcut their rainforest homes, so that mcdonald's can grow cheap beef, while GM, and other industrial giants, move to third world countries to take advantage of the dirt cheap labour, leaving the american generations that helped build them, destitute? do you think it's okay that the 'federal reserve' is a private bank, and americans have no 'freedom' to print their own money?
do you not see who the underdog is? it's all of us. we are at the bottom of a mass pile up of artificial systems and legal mumblification that run our lives. corporations MUST DIE!

Thank you for the laugh Billybob. I needed it.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


billybob, I don't care what you think or what your friends in yestermorrow think either. When you stop living in some fantasy world, maybe I'll start caring.

and who said it was a fantasy land ? you did so it is only fair for us to call your land a fantasy of white uniforms and the great military being used for good, i respect the military they put up with sh*t i could not handle, but they are many times lied to and mislead and used to someone elses gain.
BUT the fact is they take this crap they try hard to keep thier troops in the good light and not be used by someone else AS WELL as defeding the country.
also i refelct badly at least i have an open mind mabye not totaly open but still ajar. can i ask what anscestor was yours? scottish , irish ,welsh or english?
frankly i believe you are what many americans strive not to be. i respect americans not full on respect ,but they do deserve respect.