Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"And as my father hath first sent me, even so send I you."
~ Jesus Christ aka Yeshua Messiah aka Lamb of God

It was all about US, about us all, and for the sake of God the father's (first/last cause, first father of creation) glorifcation in the son, of the son in the father, and of us all in the son via the "relativity of human being" or the brotherhood of man.

His leadership, was to serve, not to be served, and he was sent, not to condemn the world, but so that through him, the world might be saved.

Therefore the reason for creation is the love of the father for the son, which includes by extension each and every one of us, no matter what our present condition, extending itself towards, not the 99 who are already righteous, but to the 1 who was lost.

It's utterly extraordinary in its implications, at all levels, and if there's a royal cosmic joke of some kind to be had, even though it involves us directly as human beings, I'll betcha it also applies everywhere else both at the same time, and that he truly comes "on the clouds of the heavens", not as a bearded man in the sky to freak everyone out, but as a spirit of God, a spirit of Love which is undying and that never changes, even though it may have been at one time "processed" you might say for our enjoyment and everlasting satisfaction, which is the wonderous, unfathomable, and eternal mystery of the triune Godhead, made manifest and made known in time and history, relative to us all.

"Love one another as I have loved you." (his only commandment)

Is that unreasonable? Coming from him it's rather unreasonably reasonable you might say, but neither can you argue against it! He always had a way of doing that, with him it was and remains always an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's what I like about him, how he's go big or go home, or in this case go big and then go home to a much bigger home built to last, and to contain everyone else in the final analysis with the hope that none are lost, however misguided, ignorant and crazy many of us still may be.

Thus while it may be said that we are all of us mentally ill to a greater or lessor degree (some of us moreso than others.. and I'm not referring to myself neccessarily and certainly not exclusively) lacking as it were in perfect mental health [quote from "The Road Less Travelled" by M. Scott Peck, M.D.] - Jesus Christ is not only the son of God, but a model of perfect mental health and well being, so he's also a type of psychological and spiritual transformative principal in his own right, inviting us into increasing degrees of wellness, wholeness, happiness and satisfaction (reintegration). And best of all, none of this is or really can be an imposition upon the mind of man (once we get to the simplicity on the far side of complexity that is).

"I came so that you would have life to the full, even to overflowing!"


Well Lord, our cups runneth over, and we don't know what to do with all that you're offering, but it sure is worthy of serious consideration and deeper contemplation..Thank you so much. In the name of you. Amen.

Cheers!

NAM

Greetings once again;

Having read nearly all of your posts, several items seem clear:

You are in search of a Gnostic understanding of Jesus.

You have uncovered a good deal of information.

Much of that information has been tainted over two millennia and you yet to understand quite how tainted it is or why.

Take, for example, Leonardo de Vinci, former Grand Master of the Prieure de Sion. Even the name of the organization he once headed has a double meaning:

Prieure = Ministry, brotherhood, monastery

Scion = Zion and, in particular, a region of Israel, Mount Zion, where Temple Solomon once stood. More importantly, however, Scion means, “descendent or heir”. This definition is extremely important to your overall quest for knowledge.

Leonardo held Christ in great contempt. He believed him to be a back-stabbing fraud, a thief of the throne of Israel, the usurper of John the Baptist, who was considered by many to be the true claim to King David’s crown, a real crown born of politics and not spirituality.

There is no possible way that I can provide all of the details to you in the context of a single post. For this reason, I again urge you to pick up a copy of, “Holy Blood, Holy Grail”.

By no means does this text provide all of the answers, but it provides a tremendous amount of clues about how corrupted the message of Christ, the past and current political system, and even why Hilary Clinton often wears a double-headed eagle pin on frequent occasion. (Although the writers, self-professed atheists, almost writhe in glee at times in their pitch to convince the reader that Jesus was a fraud.)

Before you read it, however, suppose for a moment, just for laughs, that you are the al-satan. Suppose that Christ did, in fact, marry and have offspring, children who would have been born entirely of flesh, of man and woman – not divine in origin. This would have been the norm for a man of his time, particularly for a Rabbi/Teacher, as well as a deeply human experience not to be ignored while on earth, I would think.

If you were God’s protagonist and could not attack Him directly, what would be the best way to insult the Creator than to absolutely corrupt the bloodline of Christ? And not only corrupt them, but to make them the very agents which bring about the final confrontation with God?

Your quest will not be complete without a full reading of the Book of Enoch (Genesis doesn't even make the sense without it, nor does Revelations.) Moreover, read through the 20 or so interpretations contained within this site. I PROMISE that you will not be disappointed, as it will send you off in several new quest directions: Herealittletherealittle

You call Jesus the 'master conspirator' but don't realize that the framework of his life could have all been modeled around the stars and equinoxes beforehand, in order to make it seem as though he was something special, when really he was just a regular man with extensive knowledge of a particular kind. Or it could be his life was modeled after his death, in order to make him seem special. If you can't consider this, that means you had the preconception that Jesus really was something special (in greater-than-human terms) before starting off on this witch-hunt.

I have read through the whole thread yet have no clue to what you are hinting at. If you truly want to look like you know what you're talking about, you should seriously consider paraphrasing what you mean. At this point, I'm not so sure you're not just blowing smoke up our you-know-whats.

reply to post by NaturalHealer

Thanks for your contribution, these things are very fascinating, and the Book of Enoch is something that I have yet to read and explore more fully. Regarding daVinci, I can see what you mean by our analysis of both "John the Baptist" and "The Last Supper", both of which in the final analysis, yes, do appear to hold Jesus in distain, although I must say that imbedded in these self referencial "double binds" as I call them, there's still the possibility of an even deeper meaning and significance, and the very distinct possibility of a "last laugh" which is capable of surpassing even the genius of daVinci, in the final re-frame, if you know what I mean.

As far as Jesus, post-crucifixion, leaving town with his bride-to-be, having previously preserved his purity and chastity as the Lamb of God, unto the cross, like I said before, the sign from his father in heaven (full moon lunar eclipse of the sun coinciding with passover) represents at once both the cosmological aspect of his Great Work (as the light of truth and life transcending darkness) and the authority to take up his life again, whereby a full moon represents a whole, where at his birth, there was a crescent moon under the feet of Virgo (virgin) clothed in the rising sun (woman clothed with the sun), signalling him that his Great Work is culminating at the intersection of a live lived not to the full in wholeness, but only half lived (at age 33), and yes certainly, human sexuality and sexual experience is an element of life which need not be denied, including the union of man and woman (another representation of human wholeness). However, as I also pointed out earlier, no matter the circumstances by which Jesus was concieved, the spirit is always present at conception, and Jesus also considered his true nature born of the spirit and even reborn from above, whereby what is born of flesh is flesh but of the spirit, spirit. Thus, any effort to trace his bloodline, preserve it, or corrupt it, is a fools errand, which would divorce those who would presume that this endows them with the "right to rule" from the true and deeper spiritual significance of his authentic self and true personhood and his God-sent Great Work of the Ages, and as we know the cataclysm of sin arises through the sins of the father (earthly father)..

There may indeed be a satanic anti-Christ conspiracy involving the tracing of these bloodlines to Jesus' family, that's entirely possible, as a way to mock him in his human experience beyond the cross, but as may be inferred by the deeper meaning and significance of the life and work of Jesus Christ, such a conspiracy, especially once made known to one and all, would be and is a fools errand indeed whereby God the first father of all creation, through the true and authentic spiritual personhood of the son, chose what was base and things despised to bring those very things, to nought (to nothingness).

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:"
1 Corinthians 1:26-28

"Love one another as I have loved you." (his only commandment)

Is that unreasonable? Coming from him it's rather unreasonably reasonable you might say, but neither can you argue against it! He always had a way of doing that, with him it was and remains always an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's what I like about him, how he's go big or go home, or in this case go big and then go home to a much bigger home built to last, and to contain everyone else in the final analysis with the hope that none are lost, however misguided, ignorant and crazy many of us still may be.

Thus while it may be said that we are all of us mentally ill to a greater or lessor degree (some of us moreso than others.. and I'm not referring to myself neccessarily and certainly not exclusively) lacking as it were in perfect mental health [quote from "The Road Less Travelled" by M. Scott Peck, M.D.] - Jesus Christ is not only the son of God, but a model of perfect mental health and well being, so he's also a type of psychological and spiritual transformative principal in his own right, inviting us into increasing degrees of wellness, wholeness, happiness and satisfaction (reintegration). And best of all, none of this is or really can be an imposition upon the mind of man (once we get to the simplicity on the far side of complexity that is).

"I came so that you would have life to the full, even to overflowing!"

"My yoke is easy, and my burden, is light."

What a marvel, for those given to have the understanding and comprehension.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

It does not appear to me, in reading Jesus's words, teachings, and in examining and contemplating this Great Work of his, that he was an imposter who somehow replaced the REAL guy who was supposed to be doing everything he did and fulfilled in himself (see entire Biblical prophetic framework for more on this idea), and through all his words and actions.

There's a saying I've heard that one's character speaks so loudly, that you cannot hear what they are saying. In Jesus and the apocrypha (meant in the positive sense: to both hide and reveal, not in the modern negative sense as meaning "untrue") of the Gospels, it would seem that both what he said and the character which informed his words and actions, speaks so loudly and clearly, that many simply cannot understand him, which is a rather strange and unusual paradox, not without it's own potential for deep irony and mirthful humor, if not now, then at some future epiphany or eventual realization/recognition.

Edit to add: Instead of denying Jesus' divinity, and attempting to reduce him, in stature, if only to make ourselves feel more comfortable about it all, why not look instead at what the implications are for us, as his younger brothers, and fellow human beings, whereby the divine principal of God's Love, is, quite obviously, to reach down, and raise up what is lower, to increasingly higher heights, so that we might have the opportunity to "move up" and get to be with him where he is? (see your avatar)

Personally, at least for me, I have no problem submitting myself in all humility before the greater glory of God by recognizing in the person of Jesus Christ, the balancing of the other side of a >= sign!

P.S. Re: smoke

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
At this point, I'm not so sure you're not just blowing smoke up our you-know-whats.

While that hasn't been my intention by any means, no, I am prepared to admit that I'm a hopelessly addicted smoker (smoking gun?), something that I still need to deal with as part of my own spiritual journey.

Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I never stated he was an imposter, I never implied that. I'm not downgrading Jesus at all, I'm just upgrading everyone else, if they choose to upgrade.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The student cannot, and need not be, as great as the master, who was/is clearly the ultimate optimizer of our human potential, which he focused on the poor, the downtrodden, the outcast, and the sinner, to raise up what was lowly, to increasingly higher heights.

Also, you said:

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You call Jesus the 'master conspirator' but don't realize that the framework of his life could have all been modeled around the stars and equinoxes beforehand, in order to make it seem as though he was something special, when really he was just a regular man with extensive knowledge of a particular kind.

Well I don't see how, as a baby (or an unborn infant in the womb) he could have conspired to draw the Magi by a sign (two signs, the other nine months prior), nor cause Herod, as a result of this occurance, to have 300 children slain (knowledge of which would have also weighed rather heavily on Jesus growing up, helping to still further form that circle of thorns around his sacred heart).

And by "master conspirator" we're really referring not as much to Jesus or his co-conspirator and forerunner, John the Baptist, but to God the heavenly father as the first/last cause (first father of creation) in this whole affair.

If you do not yet "get it" or can't understand it, perhaps if I might recommend something, a re-reading of the Gospels before revisiting what we've covered here in this thread, might shed more light on the mystery we've brought to light here, which I'll admit is rather hard to grasp or fathom, and which is surely to bring either tears or a smile or both upon recognition of the truth at the heart of the matter.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That still leaves the possibility that his life was altered after his death by men with a certain agenda. I'm not saying one way or the other, but since you are, you have the preconception that he was more than just a man without proof.

If there is 100% reliable proof that Jesus was more than just a man, I have not seen it, which is why I remain skeptical.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Those early writers of the Gospels had second hand oral history to go by, and reports, a smattering of historical records, along with the prophetic framework of the OT, nothing more. What they had was hindsight and their own understanding and experience. They did not posses or appear to possess, the astonomical wizardly of the Magi, who were likely from Persia (Zorastrian) yet sharing information with Daniel's descendants ("we've come to pay homage to the King of the Jews"), nor our modern day super high-precision astonomical models, which have now been employed to verify the Gospel account. What more do you want? Furthermore, is it clear from our analysis of the Gospels, that Jesus himself (and his cousin John) was operating within both the OT prophetic framework AND additional knowledge (of the Magi) such that 33 years after his birth, his Great Work culminated to the HOUR with a lunar eclipse of the sun, now verified by astronomical modelling while working in conjunction with the Gospel acounts in search of the real star of Bethlehem, which I used to think was only an allegory, the three kings from the East perhaps pointing to the three streams of Buddism (Lao Tzu, Confucius and Buddha being the "three kings from the Orient") at Jesus' appropriation of those teachings causing his "epiphany" (re birth or enlightenment), but it turns out I was wrong, with the more literal interpretation of the Star and the Magi being correct, a search for which also revealed, aside from the perfect conjunction of Jupiter and Venus nine months prior, the lunar exclipse of the sun 33 years later coinciding with the passover festival, and the darkening of the sky reported to have occured when he was on the cross.

But what's more, when we take this new framework and re-read the Gospels (the accounts of which do vary to a degree sure, as they would be expected to, given their origins) with a new inquisitive eye, we can see into the psychology and motivations of Jesus, and the degree to which he was rather "ahead of the curve" in whose equisit timing and fullfillment of prophecy, to a t (quite literally) may be seen, again, the absolute perfection of a self referencial occurance in perfect alignment with the same divine order, but at all levels, while simultaneously resolving the age-old problem of human sin/evil.

Also, never did I say that he was not a man, only that the implications of this is that man, through an eternal (and anticipated!) cosmic evolutionary process, was made, by design, to contain nothing less than the spirit of the living God, fully embodied in the person of the son, Jesus Christ.

It's what it state about US, you and I, which makes it even MORE extraordinary still, if that weren't enough as far as Good News goes..

Don't worry, I too am utterly gobsmacked by this revelation, but it's not unlike an experience I myself once had where I felt that I had an encounter with the living God, which caused me to burst out laughing in inexplicable humor, with tears both of sorrow and happiness while exclaiming "how did you know?!" He knows everything, from end to end, down the smallest detail. It's hard to explain, but this thread explains it in a way capable of making sense, to a degree, even though it's sort of in the realm of what might be called ultra or supra-rationalism.

The Demand for a Sign

16 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.

2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.[a] 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.

The Yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”

8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus Predicts His Death
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.

~ Mathew 16

Again, please review this video series very carefully. What you've asked for is there.

The Real Star of Bethlehem


All the best,

NAM

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm not downgrading Jesus at all, I'm just upgrading everyone else, if they choose to upgrade.

I don't know about upgrading everyone else but I think I can lift 28,767 up.

The OP claims that Jesus' birth was framed in the sky and linked the video series "The Real Star of Bethlehem". After watching it a simple thought came to mind. How many people were born that day? In the vid they place the birth of Jesus during 1-2AD.

World population and birth rate for that era has been placed at 150 million and 70 (averaged) per 1,000 people respectively. Let's do the math:

150,000,000/1000 = 150,000
150,000*70 = 10,500,000
10,500,000/365 = 28,767

So, 28,767 people may have been born on the same day as Jesus. Why would the signs in the sky mean that that one person was special but not the rest? I would apply Occam's razor and say that the signs meant nothing. Kinda puts a dent in the OP.

I would also like to point out my interpretation of the painting of John the Baptist. What I get from it is that John is pointing out that he is the guy that can get you into heaven. I remember someone posting that Jesus had John the Baptist killed so he could take over his followers. Maybe that is the secret message in that painting. JtB was legit and Jesus was an impostor.

To be honest I don't put much stock in the secret messages in paintings but that is what came to mind.

One would have to actually read the Gospels to understand the larger frame of reference being discussed here.

Funny how fast someone would throw Jesus under the bus and take on John as their savior!

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I have read them.

You seem to be going out of your way to paint one of 28k thousand people born under the same signs as something different.

reply to post by daskakik

I realize you didn't mean that you abide by any of this, of course. Funny how you said you watched the video, yet presume that it was only about the birth star.. hmph.

I knew this part of the thread was coming.. I prophecied it in the OP.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

No, I watched it all, but don't believe it to be accurate. The guy in the video even claims that it is a working hypothesis, that the actual date is uncertain. Still doesn't mean that 28K people were not born under the same celestial conditions.

This is ATS someone will usually point out flaws in just about every OP. Didn't need a crystal ball for that.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I wouldn't say you 'prophesied' it exactly, it's pretty likely to happen on a forum where so many different people browse daily.

reply to post by daskakik

This thread isn't just about that one aspect, the rest of which provides a larger frame of reference by which to consider the person and M.O. of Jesus, and how indeed those signs referenced him even at a particular location, within a certain framework of prophecy and of Jewish and Biblical history.

Edit to add: I'm not sure about your math, but you do make a point about more than one being born under the same sign in the same general locale, which was how Herod tried to kill the young Jesus the Magi referenced as "the King of the Jews", by ordering the slaughter of all boys (which totalled 300) from the same agegroup in the region of Bethlehem of Judea, although Joseph was given it to him in a dream to flee from the area, the result of which Jesus was spared, so the rest of them to whom it was determined that this principal applied, were all killed off, something that I've already indicated would have effected Jesus deeply once he found out about it.

16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the Wise-men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learned of the Wise-men.

17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying,

18 A voice was heard in Ramah, Weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she would not be comforted, because they are not.

~ Mathew 2:16-18

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I wouldn't say you 'prophesied' it exactly, it's pretty likely to happen on a forum where so many different people browse daily.

Just kidding around, it's the timing of it that's interesting to me, that's all, and the tone of the responses, yours included.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik

 

This thread isn't just about that one aspect

But that is one aspect that you place a lot of emphasis on. Probably because it is backed up by science. The rest is just second hand stories which have probably been put through a wash a couple of times.

I'm not sure about your math, but you do make a point about more than one being born under the same sign in the same general locale, which was how Herod tried to kill the young Jesus the Magi referenced as "the King of the Jews", by ordering the slaughter of all boys (which totalled 300) from the same agegroup in the region of Bethlehem of Judea, although Joseph was given it to him in a dream to flee from the area, the result of which Jesus was spared, so the rest of them to whom it was determined that this principal applied, were all killed off, something that I've already indicated would have effected Jesus deeply once he found out about it.

The math is plain as day 28K+ worldwide. It doesn't matter how certain people of that area interpreted the signs in the sky, the fact remains that that many people were born during the cosmic alignment. The video claims that retro motion made it look like the star had stopped over the home where Jesus was. I think that is the stretchiest part of the series.

reply to post by daskakik


Interesting, my interpretation was that he was pointing to his chest and to the sky to say that we are in heaven now basically, but your interpretation has opened up a whole new train of thought.

What if John the Baptist was Jesus' father? What if the holy grail is not Jesus' children, but who his father is? That would imply that Jesus' true father was not 'god', but John, and that would bring the whole faith crumbling.

This would also explain the positioning of his hands. We read things from left to right, with his left hand he is saying 'I Am' and with his right, he is pointing to god.

Jesus is supposedly the son of god, so according to my interpretation of the painting, John is 'god', or Jesus' true father.

Also, the face of John looks remarkably similar to the face of Mona Lisa. The smile even looks similar.

I may be clutching at straws here, but I see a connection.