Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

What tone? I don't have a tone, I'm just saying why I disagree with your view of Jesus. Sorry if I somehow rubbed you the wrong way.

You called this a "witch-hunt" but the only "witch" is the willful ignorance and pride of man, relative to whom Jesus was crucified, to glorfy the truth, and to invite us all to recognize in him and in his Great Work a principal that altogether transcends that ugly nature, and in the process liberate us from it's grasp and bring us, with him, into a domain of eternal life and absolute liberation whereby "our liberation is God's compulsion" (C.S. Lewis).

As to John the Baptist, I'll stick with the idea that he was working WITH Jesus, that they were, at least, second cousins, and that he was functioning both as an initiator, in the spirit of Elijah, and as forerunner for the Great Work to be, which he possessed the foreknoweldge of, that Jesus was in preparation to return as the Lamb of God who was sent to take away the sins of the world ie to function as world savior.

Also, any effort to demonize Jesus is the most disgraceful and pathetic of endavours (and I'm not neccessarily referring to you by that) which is almost on par with blaspheming against the holy spirit of God.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


was john the Baptist mainly responsible for bringing the word of god and jesus to the people ( sparking and creating and carrying the religion of christianity into existence and stability?

if so,,,, the way he is depicted in the wilderness image of him pointing to the ground and to the side and the other painting as well,,,, could show that he was the remaining link of jesus' message and intellect/ vision ( after jesus died) so if christianity were to survive it was his heavy burden,, and he had the strength ( and perhaps guidance) to do it..,, jesus was the brains ,,,, john was the remaining muscle,, which hammered the message into the remaining living brains and muscle of humanity?

reply to post by ImaFungi

John died before Jesus went to the cross.

But we could sure use his muscle these days, to prepare room in people's hearts for the love of God made manifest through Jesus Christ as an invitation to recieve the transcendant and freely drink from springs of living water (absent duality).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


ok so john is only related to the story of christianity by being the author of his book ( of john) and a buddy of jesus?

reply to post by ImaFungi

That's a different John. Please take the time to read the Gospels and the rest of the NT to get the whole picture.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Well, the tone you give off is that of someone who had the preconception that Jesus was 'the truth, the life, and the way' with no other alternative theory being worth consideration.

Didn't you say you needed to have an open mind in order to understand? If you can't accept anything other than Jesus as a possibility, that means you started this whole investigation off with a closed mind.

From what I can tell, you use a lot of big words and long-winded posts to say a whole lot of nothing. No offense intended, that's just what it seems like to me. For some reason you can't tell anyone what you mean in plain words, why? Wouldn't it be beneficial to all if you tell us what this huge conspiracy is that you claim is so wondrous?

This thread and the things we've explored in it, would not be complete, imho, without the parable of the Prodigal Son, so for those who will, and who are given to have an open-minded and open-hearted understanding and comprehension, I would like to offer it here, for you consideration and contemplation, may it's deeper meaning and significance open itself up to you.

The Parable of the Lost Sheep
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

The Parable of the Lost Coin
8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

~ Luke 15

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No I have discovered that about Jesus. I used to be a staunch advocate for the types of things you describe ie: of Jesus being just another guy, if that. I am a scientifically minded person, and used to be a bit of a rebel. I've searched high and low for an explanation of the meaning and purpose of life by any and every other means, but I made another inquiry, and launched another investigation, yes, with an open mind, and in the proces discovered in Jesus that indeed he is the way, the truth and the life and the reality, but even still it didn't sit right with me, this idea of an exclusive, particularized Jesus, so I kept investigating, and the more I looked the more I discovered, often to my utter dismay, that not only is there a real Jesus there, but more than that, a man of truth and honestly, and a fated calling and destiny which leaves no room to simply say that he's just another enlightened teacher. Through my investigation I discovered in Jesus the son of God, and yet one who invites us to follow him and to grow into him, through him, not over him or around him, but in him, and through him. I'm a fairly smart cookie, with a touch of genius I guess you could say, but in this man and his teachings I've come to reocgnize an unparalleled genius which cannot be denied, except maybe out of pride or the idea that I know better. I am willing to admit that I was wrong, and that indeed Jesus is the true vine, the good shepherd, the gateway, the door, the light of life, etc etc,. At the same time, it's something that draws us both in and upwardly, he doesn't leave us orphaned or stranded in our ignorance and stupidity. His is the invitation of all ages, and it takes courage and vision to recognize him, and what it is he's offering us all.

I've offered the information and even repeated it, over and again. For those who will, it's there and they'll discover it, but for others, because of their own preconceptions or blind spot, they won't, at least not yet, but in time, since it's the very thing we are all seeking I am convinced that we'll all find it eventually, to our dismary and often to tears both of sorrow and regret, and of laughter and celebration and everlasting joy and happiness and satisfaction, and we'll turn to the past page of the Bible and understand what is meant when it says that the spirit and the bride say "come freely and freely drink the living water" which is the flow of eternal life, and a process of continual reintegration as an evolutionary principal of growth and well being.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

That's a different John. Please take the time to read the Gospels and the rest of the NT to get the whole picture.

can you just quickly and simply if you dont mind tell me what role john the Baptist played?

im guessing the john who wrote john was one of jesus' disciples?

reply to post by ImaFungi

John the Baptist was Jesus' cousin, where his Mother Elizabeth was the cousin of Jesus' mother Mary. He was almost like an older brother to Jesus in some ways and they both shared a powerful spirit of prophecy, which linked them together very closely. Jesus later said that John was the reincarnation of the spirit of Elijah, which is interesting, because many centuries prior, a prophet called Elijah, and his initiate Elisha, had an interaction at the very same place where John eventually baptised Jesus, at the Jordan River, where Elijah asked Elisha what Elisha wanted, to which Elisha said he would like to have a double-portion of the spirit, but that promise went unfulfilled as Elijah was wisked away (in some form or another).

John was almost certinaly of the Essenian sect of Judiasm which was very orthodox (strict) and ascetic (pure, with lots of fasting, no alchohol, etc), and intriguingly, his ministry was performed in the wilderness, meaning apart from the Temple, which had become corrupted by Roman Imperialism and a very formalized religious doctrine of highly detailed legalism (where Jesus and John were people of the heart and soul).

John's ministry involved water baptism at the Jordan River, which is symbolic of full emersion into the spirit (zero point field?), and even a foreshadowing of death and resurrection (where sin is left in the watery grave, the baptisee coming up out of the water, of forgiveness, into a new life). John's baptism was one of repentance of the heart and the remission of sin, a foreshadowing of Jesus' Great Work ie: symbolic of death of the sinful nature, and resurrection of a new creation and a new life.

As discussed earlier in this thread, John possessed foreknowledge of Jesus' coming, and was in effect paving the way with his ministry. Before Jesus arrived, John referenced him in terms of his perfect righteousness, that Jesus was so good, and so much better than John, that John would not be fit to undo his sandle strap. Jesus referred to John however as the best of the best of all people born of women, whereby Jesus considered himself, his true and authentic self born of the spirit and from heaven (born again, from above).

When Jesus came onto the scene, John said "look, here comes the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" so John obviously knew beforehand, just who and what Jesus was all about, and what his mission and purpose was and was to be.

When Jesus had been around for a while, John said of himself and his ministry that he needed to grow smaller so that Jesus and Jesus' ministry could grow larger.

John spoke out against the King Herod, who stole and married his brother's wife (a grave sin and a violation of the law) and was imprisoned in Herod's dungeon, where, after a time, he was beheaded over a type of "bet" of sorts whereby the King promised some little harlot named Salome up to half his kindgom for a mere dance, and she asked, as part of a conspiracy with Herod's wife Herodias, when the dance was completed, for the head of John the Baptist on a platter, which the King then ordered (probably with both reluctance and relief).

Upon getting the news of John's death, Jesus turned to face Jerusalem, more aware than ever of his fated calling and destiny.

The two of them probably calluded even to the degree that they both knew in advance what would be John's fate in Herod's dungeon.

When Jesus came to John who was baptising, and asked to be baptised, John said that it was he who needed baptism from Jesus, to which Jesus replied "let's do what is right anyway" and at the moment of Jesus' baptism, John had a vision of a white dove-like spirit coming down from heaven and settling on Jesus, along with the words heard "this is my son in whom I am well pleased".

When in prison John asked for a report about Jesus, just to make sure that everything was working out according to the prophecy, and Jesus sent back word to John that miracles were happening and that the Good News of the Kingdom of Heaven was being preached to the poor.

John the Baptist is known as the forerunner to Jesus' ministry, and as I've outlined, helped to generate the spirit of prophecy as a future domain within and through which Jesus performed his Great Work.

Again, to get all this, you need to read the Gospels, which isn't hard to do.. but I hope that helps, at least in part.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


would you take it as blasphemy,,, if i said i believe its a fact that you are as much Jesus the son of god as jesus was?

reply to post by ImaFungi

No, just ill informed, because I bring forward what I see and have learned from Jesus, where the student cannot and need not be as great as, the teacher/master.

As I said before, Jesus is like the X-factor on the other side of the >= sign, of a balanced equation relative to us all within the framework of what I like to call "the relativity of human being" aka the brotherhood of man.

We can be and become like him, even evermoreso like him, without every surpassing his magnificence and beauty, and that's the beauty of it, you see?

We can explore his love for all eternity, and never quite get to the end of it!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


also im sorry but i refuse to read the gospels.,.,., Ive read and intuited a lot of jesus' morals and teachings from various sources,, Ive read revelations and book of enoch out of interest,.,. but daily I read from gods living word.. inner and outer nature...

reply to post by ImaFungi

I hereby humbly ask that you read them just once. I haven't read them that much but I am continually amazed at how much I remember and what impact they've had on me. If you like me and what I have to say, please read them just one time, for me. Thanks.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

No, just ill informed, because I bring forward what I see and have learned from Jesus, where the student cannot and need not be as great as, the teacher/master.

As I said before, Jesus is like the X-factor on the other side of the >= sign, of a balanced equation.

We can be and become like him, even evermoreso like him, without every surpassing his magnificence and beauty, and that's the beauty of it, you see?

We can explore his love for all eternity, and never quite get to the end of it!

edit on 12-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: slight edit

hmm,,, Im not necessarily saying you can be actually him,, like i cant be michael jordan ( probably cant play basketball as good as him,,, and probably difficult (( but possible)) to stretch your mind to think and see as jesus did) but im saying you are actually gods son,,, just as much as gods son as jesus,,, which makes all men brothers,, we are having this experience of life and ourselves as jesus did as einstein did as jordan did,,, when you close your eyes you lay in the hands of god,, you always have,,, he admires you as much as you admire him,,

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

I hereby humbly ask that you read them just once. I haven't read them that much but I am continually amazed at how much I remember and what impact they've had on me. If you like me and what I have to say, please read them just one time, for me. Thanks.

I dont want to read them because they are associated with christianity,,, which is something i do not believe in and do not want to be associated with.,., because christianity is not the work of jesus or god,,,,, it is an idle distraction of the great work,,,, it is a good effort,, but not the best effort,, im an all or nothing kind of person,, no reason doing something half assed,,, and that doesnt mean try harder to convert people,,,,, there is a way and a will,, and a time when humanity will rejoice as a united force created by a single source,,,, christianity in the eyes of many none believers ( not of god per say) but of Christianity,,, has given god a bad name....,., people who dont believe in god often do not believe in god because of all the inconsistencies and ignorance in the bible,,, the lack of trust in man and his knowledge,,, and the brutal past of crusaders.....

reply to post by ImaFungi

Fair enough, but if you knew what I was like BEFORE, how selfish I used to be, and filled with pride and ignorance (knowitall) then you'd know why I credit Jesus with my, um.. Jesus-ness..

I like no I LOVE what he represents as a transformative, evolutionary principal of Godliness via his radical, transformative forgiveness and remission of sin which breaks the back of sin and the desire to sin.

This thread in fact, in and of itself has worked WONDERS for me in a very big way, getting to share this info and Good News, it's what I was meant to do and now that I'm realizing that goal, now I can REALLY get moving in terms of the business of living my life to the full, even to overflowing, but in a good way, for our mutual benefit, and not just my own selfishness, lust and greed.

It's made me a better man, so I thank you all for reading and for your participation. I love you all, even though some of you peeve me off a bit sometimes..!

Best Regards, and God Bless,

NAM aka Bob

reply to post by ImaFungi

God damn the "Churchianity" of human ignorance and intollerance, hatred and wickedness, for turning people away from the revelation of Jesus Christ son of God and Lamb of God.

The Prodigal Son

When we consider the larger (that's an understatement), cosmological context and framework within which we are emersed, and, that the creation is GOOD (made by reason, of love), including that of the human being as child of God made in the image of God (se phi ratio son of God earlier), for those who can see it and recognize the full signifiance and implications of what we've been discussing here, it becomes rather obvious that this Earth of ours, with the human family included, is not unlike the lost coin, the lost sheep, or the lost son who, in the fullness of time and history, is NOT orphaned or separated from God, but found at last - and that Jesus really was God "in the flesh", first sent by the first father of all creation, to retrieve us, with the hope that none will be lost, and everyone found and reunited at last within one heavenly household, set free and liberated under Grace, to freely play and co-create under the stars of a "free-dome". This is the living water, which is the flow of life that is freely available to all who thirst, that they might be satisfied.

The spirit and the bride say "freely come, all who thirst and drink freely of the living water of eternal life". Amen.

It's an inheritance that we did not work for, prepared for us from before the very foundation of the world.

The question that then arises is - who among us will have the courage to recieve it, and to take their place at the reception table headed by the spirit and the bride, which is the comingled spirit of the living God and spirit of man freely shared in koinonia.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Fair enough, but if you knew what I was like BEFORE, how selfish I used to be, and filled with pride and ignorance (knowitall) then you'd know why I credit Jesus with my, um.. Jesus-ness..

I like no I LOVE what he represents as a transformative, evolutionary principal of Godliness via his radical, transformative forgiveness and remission of sin which breaks the back of sin and the desire to sin.

This thread in fact, in and of itself has worked WONDERS for me in a very big way, getting to share this info and Good News, it's what I was meant to do and now that I'm realizing that goal, now I can REALLY get moving in terms of the business of living my life to the full, even to overflowing, but in a good way, for our mutual benefit, and not just my own selfishness, lust and greed.

It's made me a better man, so I thank you all for reading and for your participation. I love you all, even though some of you peeve me off a bit sometimes..!

Best Regards, and God Bless,

NAM aka Bob

edit on 12-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: edited

ok and whether it was jesus' words or nicezhes that changed you as a person,,, whether it was nature,, or your personal thought and epiphanies,,, nothing can truly change you ( your perception of your self and reality) without you ( your perception of your self and reality) making and doing the changing,,..,., if jesus was never taught the language he used to convey his messages ....... that language was created by man,,,, its a lot of complex pieces of reality that go into anything occurring,,, but since the first humans,,, there have been good humans,, who have done heroic acts to save a friend,,, who have loved a women enough to spend the rest of their lives with her, and to reproduce a new unique child made of both of them.,.,,. its not going anywhere,.,.,, its only because of technology that the time is ripe for big scale big picture change,, or only now because that technology exists that big scale big picture change is so much more easily possible,,.,.,.
there have been peaceful cultures and villages that have lived human lives for thousands of years,,, there are many places like this now,,,.. it is so hard for us to eliminate all accidents,, or passions that come with actions in time,,.,.,. we can make every human oath to never kill a man,, but you find another man sleeping with your wife and your emotions may get the best of you,,