Report: Colorado shooting suspect sent plans notebook to psychiatrist

reply to post by Daughter2


It's likely obvious to most, but I'll point out that, just because this person specialized in schizophrenics doesn't mean that everyone who worked with her was a schizophrenic.

I'm still holding to my belief that Holmes was a psychopath, not a schizophrenic.

reply to post by adjensen


I'm still holding on to the belief Holmes had no idea what he was doing because he was in some sort of a trance and did what he would NEVER ever consider doing let alone think about it.

reply to post by Tindalos2013

yup agreed.

Holmes sent a notebook to Fenton before the shooting rampage, his lawyers said in a motion filed Friday. The notebook included a journal of sorts and crude drawings depicting a mass gun attack, according to reports. But the timing of the package's arrival in the university mailroom is in dispute. Police seized the package Monday, but Fenton never had opened it, according to court records.

Source - Seattle Times

So my questions are these, if the doctor had not opened the package, how did the police or the doctor know the contents were from Holmes? Did it say so on the back of the package? Did the doctor recognise the handwriting on the envelope and just hand it over not knowing what was in it? Sounded like from other reports that the police opened the wrong one initially and just kept looking, therefore the doctor had not even seen the package to tell them it was there, so why did they pick that one?
This does seem like the 'too good to be true' kind of a find.
Has anyone seen any analysis of this notebook, i.e. hand writing comparisons, finger prints on all the pages, dna from the pages?? Other peoples finger prints on the pages??..... assuming of course that when they looked through it, being evidence, they were wearing gloves.

If anyone has spotted anything that can answer these questions or shed a little more light on the subject I would be very interested to hear/read it.

Originally posted by CthulhuMythos

So my questions are these, if the doctor had not opened the package, how did the police or the doctor know the contents were from Holmes?

It had his return address on it.

If you received a package from Holmes after the fact - - knowing about his apartment. Honestly - - what would you do?

These witness testimony's directly contradict the MSM's claims that there was "a lone crazed gunman". The supposed "lone gunman", was found sitting in his car, just waiting to be arrested... When the police arrested him, he TOLD THEM that his apartment was booby trapped... So he shoots a bunch of unarmed innocent people, then has a major epiphany about some police officers being hurt by the booby traps he placed?

Also the fact that he was training to be a neuroscientists brings up a bunch of red flags, since its well known that several reputable "doctors" in the U.S. have been involved in mind control/behavioral reprogramming under operations like MK Ultra, Monarch, Bluebird. The declassified documents from Bluebird even speak of experiments where they created a "Manchurian candidate", capable of receiving a phone call "trigger", that would set off their "hidden personality", and activate the killer programming.

Bluebird: SOURCE

Originally posted by 007Polytoks
These witness testimony's directly contradict the MSM's claims that there was "a lone crazed gunman".

What I have to say about this.

I raised 2 daughters. They are both in their 40s now.

When we get together reminiscing - - - its as if we lived in 3 separate universes.

Who knows - - maybe individuals do live in their own separate universes.

Anyway - - - eye witness is the worst and most unreliable when it comes to factual information.

Has anyone seen any analysis of this notebook, i.e. hand writing comparisons, finger prints on all the pages, dna from the pages?? Other peoples finger prints on the pages??..... assuming of course that when they looked through it, being evidence, they were wearing gloves.

If anyone has spotted anything that can answer these questions or shed a little more light on the subject I would be very interested to hear/read it.

I suspect this is all covered by the whole 'case is sealed' thing... We pribably won't get to see or hear anything about it until the trial... It's to try and ensure that the guy gets a fair trial... If everything is plastered everywhere then people would likely have made up their minds before the trial starts and he wouldn't get his right to an impartial jury... Seems weird when he's already confessed and what not... But, regardless.. he's still entitled to a trial by an impartial jury of his peers....

reply to post by Annee


I agree that eye witnesses are the most unreliable, but in a situation like this, its all we have.

Anyways, it doesn't detract from the validity of my point in the least. The MSM clearly has an agenda here, as they always do, and they are not taking witness testimony's into account (that go against their OS) when determining their verdict. I have heard multiple reports of "a lone crazed gun-man", where do these reports come from? I have not heard one witness speak of a "lone crazed gun-man", yet I have heard quite a few speak about the possibility of there being multiple people. In the underwear bomber case, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was spotted in the airport with a Indian fellow (on security camera), who was allowed to pass (with Umar) through the security checkpoints. This handler type of person is often spotted in "terrorist bombings", and to many times to be a simple coincidence. The idea that this guy was working alone, is highly unlikely, and not supported by any of the data we have received, except from the MSM's "private court of law", which is about as fallacious as they come.

Originally posted by 007Polytoks
reply to post by Annee

 

I agree that eye witnesses are the most unreliable, but in a situation like this, its all we have.

Anyways, it doesn't detract from the validity of my point in the least. The MSM clearly has an agenda here,

I don't believe there is any conspiracy of any kind on this subject or person.

EVERY time there is a sensational case - - - misinformation runs rampant.

Only time sorts it all out - - - and reveals the facts.

Originally posted by 007Polytoks
These witness testimony's directly contradict the MSM's claims that there was "a lone crazed gunman". The supposed "lone gunman", was found sitting in his car, just waiting to be arrested... When the police arrested him, he TOLD THEM that his apartment was booby trapped... So he shoots a bunch of unarmed innocent people, then has a major epiphany about some police officers being hurt by the booby traps he placed?

Holmes appears to be psychopathic, not psychotic, so he has a very clear understanding of consequences. I don't think that he intended to die that night, hence the surrender.

The bombs at his apartment were intended as a diversion to get the police over there, rather than at the police station just up the street from the theatre. When he saw how many cops were there, he must have surmised that they didn't go off, or maybe he just asked them. Either way, if you were in the custody of police, would you send them over to your apartment and hope that a couple of them blow themselves up? Or would you tell them about the bombs, and maybe curry a little favour from them?

Things like that, I suspect are "tells" that point to psychopathic behaviour, rather than psychosis, as his appearance in the courtroom seemed to imply.

reply to post by Annee


That belief is something that goes completely against the evidence presented.

Another point, does this even look like the same guy to you?

Before:


After:


I truly don't see how people can convince themselves that there is no conspiracy in this, when (as demonstrated), there is innumerable pieces of evidence that suggest this is a conspiracy. While I understand its pleasant to pretend like this stuff doesn't happen, the declassified documents seized from the CIA in a FOIA, clearly demonstrate that the ability to create such a "Manchurian candidate" is 100% possible, and has been done. The witness testimony's, while taken by you as a mere coincidence, wouldn't be taken as such by any clear minded criminal investigator delving into the inner working of this case. The idea that this is "just a loan gunman" doesn't jive with the evidence at all, and is actually directly contradictory to the evidence presented.

Anyways, the idea of putting this off as a "lone gunman" is largely a cop-out, instead of trying to figure out what actually happened, and looking at all the possibility's, people go with the idea that feels the most pleasant. A lone gunman is easy to explain, and makes things seem less threatening. The conspiratorial ideal is unpleasant to grasp, but is wholly accurate when put into perspective of the evidence surrounding the shooting.

reply to post by adjensen


To my knowledge he didn't tell the police about the bombs till after the shooting was done. He didn't resist arrest, and just assumed that he would be allowed to live??? All the cops had to do is say he fired on them, and put a couple rounds in his skull (as they have done many times before). Its well known in the military, and other circles where people have to kill other humans for a living, that shooting some one at close range is not an easy task the first few times. Yet Holmes did it without even a fumble, and no one even came close to disarming him. His killer instinct then simply vanished as he left the theater?? No one saw him walk out of the theater drenched in blood carrying assault rifles? He "planned months in advance", to surrender to the police so he could rot in jail for the rest of his life? Was that his master plan, to get thrown in solitary confinement?

So, the narrative that he "failed an exam", then decided to buy 20+ thousand dollars in military hardware (how did he even get the bulletproof vests), doesn't strike you as odd at all? A neuroscientist just randomly decides to buy 6,000 dollars worth of ammo in one go, and no one is even alerted?? Yet people place emails that contain certain keywords, and are put on NSA watch lists? I suppose this was like the Fort Hood shootings, where they just decided his strange behavior was "unimportant", and let him proceed on in his clearly mentally deranged actions. I honestly cant see one shred of truth in the MSM's narrative of "lone gunman", but maybe its just logic getting the best of me.

reply to post by 007Polytoks


I think the simplest answer is that he is a psychopath, so has no regard for any life but his own, and he is a coward, so once he realized that he was in danger, he gave up.

Why didn't the cops shoot him in the head when they had the chance? I suppose it depends on who the cops were that first came upon him, but I'd like to think that, in a situation where they do not find themselves at risk (Holmes having thrown down his weapons,) most police are just as interested in finding out what motivated this creep as we are. Plus, if there WAS more than one shooter, or a conspiracy or whatever, ending his life would put their own safety at risk, so there's a reason not to go mustang on him.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by 007Polytoks

 

I think the simplest answer is that he is a psychopath, so has no regard for any life but his own, and he is a coward, so once he realized that he was in danger, he gave up.

Could you please explain the difference between psychopath and psychotic?

To me it seems he is lost in a deluded world and keeps reaching out for help.

OR - - is he just mocking everyone that is not in his world?

Originally posted by 007Polytoks
reply to post by Annee

 

That belief is something that goes completely against the evidence presented.

What evidence? There is no evidence.

There is only hearsay and speculation.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by 007Polytoks

 

I think the simplest answer is that he is a psychopath, so has no regard for any life but his own, and he is a coward, so once he realized that he was in danger, he gave up.

Could you please explain the difference between psychopath and psychotic?

To me it seems he is lost in a deluded world and keeps reaching out for help.

OR - - is he just mocking everyone that is not in his world?

Sure -- a psychotic is someone who has a detached perception of reality, which may come and go. They may suffer from hallucinations and periods of catatonia, and thus, their behaviour is usually hard to hide. Psychosis is a mental illness, and in most states is a valid defense (the "not guilty by reason of insanity" plea.)

A psychopath is a person who completely lacks empathy or emotion toward other people. Serial killers are psychopaths, and Holmes seems like he's one, as well, because unlike psychotics, a psychopath is simply a "normal" person, who lacks any concern for anyone other than themselves, so they have no problem fitting in with society, making plans to do whatever it is they want to do, and so on. For that reason, psychopathy is NOT a valid insanity defense in trial -- they know full well that what they did was wrong, they just don't care.

You may find this description helpful: The Difference Between Psychopathy & Psychosis

reply to post by Annee


Where is the evidence that Holmes did the shooting?

I have witness testimony's, correlation of a training drill of exactly the same event (same as 9/11 7/7), which begs the question of foreknowledge. The body armor, which for a kid like James, is quite difficult to obtain. The fact that his description of a "lone crazed gunman" doesn't fit his actions, and the way he was before the shootings. You honestly believe people just fail a test, then go crazy, and decide to murder innocent people?? His actions in court clearly resemble some one who is being drugged, and possibly even manipulated by other means, such as electromagnetic, which have been shown to cause various effects to the human brain in high concentrations. Not to mention all of his actions directly correlate with the achievements of the CIA during the Project Bluebird experiments, which were uncovered in 15,000 declassified documents seized in an FOIA. The pictures of him before, and after are NOT THE SAME PERSON, this much is easy to tell with a quick look at the structure of his face.

I am under the impression you simply don't want to see this from anyone's perspective, but your own. The idea that this was a conspiracy is to frightening, and so, like many others, you stick your head in the sand, and hope the problem will just go away. When I see proof that James Holmes was even truly involved in this shooting, then I will be ready to consider that he might have been a "lone gunman", but till then, the evidence of a conspiracy clearly resides on the winning end of the probability chart.

reply to post by adjensen


In situations where crazed gunman plan, then execute a mass killing, how often is it that they simply throw down their arm's, and turn into a "helpless infant"? Most killings I have heard of the gunman turn the guns on themselves after, since once they realize what they have done, they either cant live with themselves, or just simply want whatever problems caused it, to end. James Holmes on the other hand, had everything going for him, a pretty girl who hung out with him, a scholarship at one of the best schools in the country, training to become a neuroscientist.


With the recent influx of "American" police murdering unarmed people, shooting them 60+ times. I find it hard to believe that these police would have taken the time to think twice before putting a bullet in James Holmes head. He just shot a theater full of innocent people, but they had major reservations about hurting him? Yet the multiple people in the past few years who have been shot (unarmed), were of no consequence to the officers involved? Sure he could have just got lucky, and got a well minded cop for once, but the odds are still against it. The odds are also highly against some one who had their mind set on murdering people, suddenly having a epiphany, and deciding to protect the police officers. It hardly seems like so many convenient "coincidences", are anything but a story being told to paint a certain picture for the public.

Originally posted by 007Polytoks
reply to post by adjensen

 

In situations where crazed gunman plan, then execute a mass killing, how often is it that they simply throw down their arm's, and turn into a "helpless infant"? Most killings I have heard of the gunman turn the guns on themselves after, since once they realize what they have done, they either cant live with themselves, or just simply want whatever problems caused it, to end.

Just because it rarely happens doesn't mean it can't. There's no way of knowing what motivated him to give up, but I still lean towards him being a coward.

James Holmes on the other hand, had everything going for him, a pretty girl who hung out with him, a scholarship at one of the best schools in the country, training to become a neuroscientist.

From the reports that I've seen, his world was crumbling around him -- he had broken up with his girl friend, had failed his exams, and was dropping out of school.

With the recent influx of "American" police murdering unarmed people, shooting them 60+ times. I find it hard to believe that these police would have taken the time to think twice before putting a bullet in James Holmes head.

That is completely anecdotal, and is the equivalent of saying "all cops will kill a suspect if given a chance", which is not true. If he presented no threat to the police that found him, as I said, it was contrary to their own safety to kill him on the spot.

reply to post by adjensen


I have seen no reports of his girlfriend dumping him, however I am doubting that failing his exams really constitutes as "his world falling down around him". His father was a reputable scientist, and I am sure he could have just helped him redo the exams quite easily. How many people have you met that decide to go on a rampage, and murder a theater full of innocent people, simply because they failed their exam? So, he dropped out of school (a school which obviously costed lots to get into), and then magically stumbled on 20+ thousand dollars to buy guns? Pray tell where he got the body armor? Was this normal, smart guy, that was trying to become a neuroscientists, connected to the Mexican cartel? Maybe he got them from the botched ATF "fast and furious" operation, in which they sold guns, knowingly, to cartel members?

Where is there a shred of evidence that this is even James Holmes that we see in the court room anyways? Have you taken the time to look at the before/after photo's of him?? Does that honestly look like the same guy to you? I can see similarity's, but its clearly not the same person. Or did he maybe get some plastic surgery before going on a massacre so he would look attractive for his cell mates? No suspicion was aroused when he started buying thousands, and thousands of dollars work of ammunition, and guns, right after quitting school?