Mass shooting in Aurora, CO (At Batman Film Premiere)

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ZiggyMojo

 

I explained the possibility of how the conversation with the Police Dept may have come up with the idea and Holmes perhaps thought his life was in danger had he returned or Police might had put the idea in his head.
Holmes may have realised AFTER THE FACT he was now dealing with a very dangerous person/s.

I would'nt know the damn difference between a blank and a real bullet or what both sounds like. This guy was too much in to his studies to probably know the difference either.

Did he acquire those arms or were they purchased in his name? Any video tape inside the gun shop - thats if thats where they were purchased ?

edit on 24-7-2012 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

He may not know the difference from the sound or look of a blank to live ammunition, but I assure you he would know the difference when he fired a shotgun at someone five feet away and it took them off their feet or at the very least left a mangled gaping wound in their torso, or completely destroyed an extremity. The pistol may be harder to differentiate in the dark, but the rifle and shotgun would leave noticeable damage.

You may not take the RPG threat very seriously, but the CIA certainly does:

emilevanveen.com...
In MMORPG, the position of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) regarding the potential use of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games by terrorists is mentioned several times. In researching the book, Emile van Veen came across several documents that show how seriously the CIA is taking this threat.

The most significant is the CIA Data Mining Report of February 15, 2008. Through this report, the Director of National Intelligence informed Congress about the existence of the so-called Reynard Project, which is aimed at studying terrorist dynamics in virtual worlds and large-scale online games. ...

-------------

More evidence of his true interests:

www.express.co.uk...
Research assistant Billy Kromka said yesterday: “Sometimes when he was supposed to be reading a paper or something like that, I would see him playing online role-playing video games, like World of Warcraft and League of Legends.”

reply to post by pasiphae


I wouldn't take reports like that at face value. There aere plenty of dispondant kids that don't like being spoken to like an idiot by some guy that thinks they know everything about computers, or had bad breath or any number of things. I know in some jobs plenty of grown ups doing the same thing, one guy saying he was ''oddly stubborn'' doesn't mean anything, the guy also seemed extremely shy. Another thing to bear in mind is the possibility of hight functioning autism, this brings it's own flavor of stubborn.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

The gas mask still will not seal automatically unless he does that process.

Yes, but he could have done it outside. I scuba dive, and clearing a mask is similar in nature, but I can do it before I ever jump in the water and its just as effective.

Originally posted by ZiggyMojo

This I'd believe a little more. I still think its a stretch though. There is a huge difference between firing a gun in game and then feeling the real power of a firing weapon in real life. Enough of a difference that FPS gamers who had never fired a real weapon before were taken to a range to do so, and many of them nearly wet their pants it was so different.

Oh yeah, believe me I know I have racked up literally hundreds of hours playing World of Warcraft and Battlefield (pretty much all of them).

FPS was only a suggestion on my part, it fits much better than an MMORPG being an influence.

As an aside, I fired my first gun many years before playing FPS's. Maybe that's part of what makes the difference

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat

Originally posted by pasiphae
i'm not understanding the vicodin dosage. it comes in 500mg tabs. a regular strength tablet is 5/500. then there is vicodin hp which is 10/660. you're not to exceed 4000mg of acetaminophen in a day (the acetaminophen content is the second number). vicodin is a combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone.

so i'm not understanding where this 100mg dosage came from. it doesn't make sense. i don't think it even comes in 100mg tablets.

There are tablets that contain 5mg, 7.5 or 10 mg of hydrocodone, so if he took 20 x 5mg that would be a hundred right? Anecdotal stuff on the web suggests that addicts take more than this in a day.

Having said that, did Holmes say that he took that amount or did police presume he did?

i see what you are saying. it still doesn't make sense to say he took 100mg of vicodin because that doesn't mean the same thing as taking 100mg of hyrdocodone. i'm thinking the report might be wrong. edit to add: taking enough vicodin for to get to 100mg of hydrocodone would fry your liver pretty quick.

reply to post by Kryties


I agree with those statements. Also sounds like we play similar games. Not much into the MMO's anymore as they have all been pretty poor lately but I do love a good FPS.

Originally posted by starviego
You may not take the RPG threat very seriously, but the CIA certainly does:

emilevanveen.com...
In MMORPG, the position of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) regarding the potential use of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games by terrorists is mentioned several times. In researching the book, Emile van Veen came across several documents that show how seriously the CIA is taking this threat.

The most significant is the CIA Data Mining Report of February 15, 2008. Through this report, the Director of National Intelligence informed Congress about the existence of the so-called Reynard Project, which is aimed at studying terrorist dynamics in virtual worlds and large-scale online games. ...

You have never played an MMORPG have you? If you had, you would know why we are saying it can't be that.

Maybe, just MAYBE, "terrorists" could converse and kill dragons together in an MMORPG but none of them present scenarios that come even close to a real life terrorist attack.

Unless you are suggesting that the "terrorists" morph to Moonkin form and fire off a few magical bolts from their hands all the while watching their health and topping up with an instant heal now and then? You can't be serious.

I'm still stuck on this magic gas mask that was on the shooter's face at the time of arrest AND on the ground 150 feet away from his car hours after his arrest. I've gone through every possible scenario to explain this and I can only come up with one answer - there was an accomplice who was also in a gas mask and ditched it near theater 8.

I then have tried to figure out why the accomplice would toss it there but at this point i'm just speculating and there are way too many possible answers to that.

But IMO, the gas mask changes this from a conspiracy theory... To a conspiracy. There is another person involved that is being protected and I'm confident this is the truth. There was evidence of a second person left outside the theater, imagine what a look through both theaters 8 and 9 might reveal.

Just to follow up: Mother Disputes Quote

Originally posted by LadySkadi

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by LadySkadi

Read more: www.abc15.com...

That's close enough for me... she thought he could do something like that and it indicates a past history of some sort of "issue"

edit on 23-7-2012 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

They asked if she was the mother of Holmes. She answered they had the right person.

Fair enough. Her comment can be read either way, I suppose. We will just have to wait and see how it all plays out, I think that we can both agree that no one has all the details and what details we do have (especially those printed in the beginning) could easily be incorrect, supposition and/or misleading. I do believe that we will see a history of mental/social/emotional issue of some sort come out though... but to what degree his mother or those around him knew of it, remains to be seen.

Originally posted by starviego
You may not take the RPG threat very seriously, but the CIA certainly does:

emilevanveen.com...
In MMORPG, the position of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) regarding the potential use of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games by terrorists is mentioned several times. In researching the book, Emile van Veen came across several documents that show how seriously the CIA is taking this threat.

The most significant is the CIA Data Mining Report of February 15, 2008. Through this report, the Director of National Intelligence informed Congress about the existence of the so-called Reynard Project, which is aimed at studying terrorist dynamics in virtual worlds and large-scale online games. ...

-------------

More evidence of his true interests:

www.express.co.uk...
Research assistant Billy Kromka said yesterday: “Sometimes when he was supposed to be reading a paper or something like that, I would see him playing online role-playing video games, like World of Warcraft and League of Legends.”

edit on 24-7-2012 by starviego because: (no reason given)

I can see where the CIA would be be researching MMORPG's more from a terrorist's organizational standpoint, but playing out scenarios of real life attacks just isn't that viable.

For the second part about his "true" interests. I play games, I love them and I will admit to playing them at times when I probably shouldn't. Games are one of my 'true' interests, and so are watches and their movements. I look at watches and think about building them or tools to do so almost nonstop. Sounds weird, but I'm passionate and they are my hobby. I also daydream about games on occasion. There are times where I'm writing lines of code and wishing I was capping the flag in an adrenaline pumping game of Tribes: Ascend, or scaling a building in something like Assasin's Creed. Lets face it, life can be dull sometimes and video games and hobbies are a way to escape the doldrums. I think it actually speaks more to the type of student he was and the intelligence he posessed. He was breezing through school, and was an excellent student. Not to bark up my own tree, but I have been there. He was probably bored and had realized what REALITY really was and looked to games to give himself some enjoyment. I think he was plenty intelligent enough to differentiate between a game and reality..

Its just the same as someone becoming enveloped in a book or movie, because it allows them to escape into a different world for a bit. Books, in my opinion could be even more harmful to the psyche of an individual considering your brain is responsible for creating the images and reality you are reading about.

This guy to me seems like the case of a guy who knew too much for his own good. His field of study was neuroscience.. He probably had a pretty advanced understanding of how our brain works and how it perceives many things. I'm interested to hear if he has any religious alignment, or what his beliefs are. Not because I admire this Holmes character, but because it may give us some insight into how this guy "ticked" or what caused him to go off. Having such an understanding of the brain and its chemicals could totally change your perception of life itself. It also would have made him a perfect candidate for something like MK-Ultra.. Or if you really want to talk conspiracy.. Perhaps he was a target because of what he knows.

PS because it made me laugh... If the guy was able to recognize the difference between World of Warcraft and League of Legends, he is the biggest hypocrite ever. If he knew the names of both of those games and could differentiate between the two he probably played them or at least played just as many games as Holmes... I just think it's funny that the guy was pointing that out but in doing so he showed that he was probably "guilty" of playing the same games.

Here is 2 1/2 hours of raw Aurora police and fire audio. The shooting starts at 28 minutes in. There is CLEARLY talk of a second suspect, even them chasing him on foot (!), wearing a blue and white shirt and red backpack. @38 mins in.

There is also talk of a body in a car an hour in and a bunch of other weird stuff.

Police and fire are separated btwn left and right channels.

www.qsl.net...

Originally posted by heycitizen
Here is 2 1/2 hours of raw Aurora police and fire audio. The shooting starts at 28 minutes in. There is CLEARLY talk of a second suspect, even them chasing him on foot (!), wearing a blue and white shirt and red backpack. There is also talk of a body in a car and a bunch of other weird stuff.

Police and fire are separated btwn left and right channels.

www.qsl.net...

Yes and the body in the car was in a white Kia. A few minutes later it turns into a suspect in a white car. Holmes' passenger windows were busted when they towed it, but I havent heard the media address whether or not it was already like that or it happened while at the theater.

I'm pretty sure an officer saying there is a body and then later victim in a car is reliable. This isn't an untrained civilian in a stressful situation, this is a trained observer doing his job. How could he have been mistaken?

reply to post by heycitizen


They weren't " sticking around" for interviews, the witnesses were all rounded up right after the massacre and taken by police on a bus to a local high school. Gateway school I think. They weren't permitted to leave the parking lot. Cars were abandoned to pick up the next day. Some must have got away and went home but most rounded up . A perimeter was set up to catch the suspect.

As for the baby, just because you or I might not do this with our baby, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does happen.

reply to post by IamMe14


I haven't listened to the whole thing yet. What do you think of the description of the person with the backpack?

Originally posted by violet
reply to post by heycitizen

 

They weren't " sticking around" for interviews, the witnesses were all rounded up right after the massacre and taken by police on a bus to a local high school. Gateway school I think. They weren't permitted to leave the parking lot. Cars were abandoned to pick up the next day. Some must have got away and went home but most rounded up . A perimeter was set up to catch the suspect.

As for the baby, just because you or I might not do this with our baby, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does happen.

It took at least 10 min before officers started talking about a perimeter, in that time tons of people could have left the scene. The priority was the numerous victims with lack of ambulances, the officers had to take people to the hospital in patrol cars. It wasn't immediately that the witnesses were taken to the high school.

I watched a video from NBC where the cop, not sure if it was chief Oates without the hat,
Regarding apprehending Holmes.
Said officers went to back lot and Holmes was standing there, looked like a cop dressed all in black in his full gear but a keen eyed officer noticed his attire was suspicious and approached him. So there it is again , he was wearing the gear when found.
Videos in this
Link

reply to post by violet


This is good to know, thanks. Helps make a little more sense of all the weird photos. I still find their on camera demeanor odd, but knowing they aren't at the scene of the crime removes a little of the "WTF" I had in my mind. A little.

Originally posted by heycitizenReally? I read it more as a very abrupt negative turn in an otherwise outstanding academic career. Honors, grants, camp counselor, "breezing through high school and college", doctoral studies in a demanding program. It all only seems to go wrong with that internship at Salk, which I find pretty interesting. The old videos of him do not paint a negative picture at all. I see a somewhat shy young science enthusiast who was genuinely into what he was doing.

The only red flag I see there is Salk. There are several quotes in that article from people who knew him. The ONLY negative one is from the Salk professor.

Here's my two cents, as a college prof, the product of a PhD program, and someone intimately familiar with PhD admission and retention.

1) You don't get into any accredited PhD program, let alone one like UC-Denver, without an excellent academic and, perhaps more importantly, glowing recommendations from your undergraduate faculty. In academia, you don't write recommendation letters unless you really mean what you say because it's a very close-knit (dare I say incestuous?) community. You lie in a letter that results in a poor student getting in and falling apart and your word is useless from that point forward. PhD programs often hinge their total funding and standing at their respective universities on graduate student retention. Drop outs look bad, especially at upper tier programs like UC-Denver. Therefore, I have to sincerely question the veracity of the claims made by the individual from the Salk Institute. You don't get admitted to UC-Denver's program if you're 'undistinguished.'

2) There is, however, some merit in viewing this as a student who was struggling and felt like his back was against a wall. If Holmes was failing out of the program, his chances of getting into another PhD program would've been very slim (track record of failure) and thus his future prospects would've been dramatically limited. That said, I am suspicious of the terminology being used by the UC faculty. It has been repeatedly said that Holmes was WITHDRAWING (voluntary) not that Holmes had been REMOVED or SUSPENDED (involuntary), the latter of which would've been the course of action pursued had he really been struggling academically. He may have been struggling, which is common among all students in grad programs, but I find it hard to believe that a program like UC-Denver's, which admits 10-15 students per year out of hundreds or, more likely, thousands of applicants, wouldn't do everything in their power to ensure Mr. Holmes stayed in school. One hard semester and a subsequent implosion doesn't compute in my experience, especially given the professional necessity for Holmes to finish, both on his part and the part of the university.

Originally posted by heycitizen
reply to post by IamMe14

 

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet. What do you think of the description of the person with the backpack?

Unfortunately I couldn't really make a solid determination on it. It could have been a suspect fleeing the scene, but it just as easily could have been a witness walking away and at this point they were trying to detain everyone for questioning.

The person in the white and blue plaid shirt appeared to have been named a suspect by a witness, so that person interested me the most. White/blue plaid looks nothing like a SWAT outfit, not even a random witness could confuse that.