Mass shooting in Aurora, CO (At Batman Film Premiere)

Originally posted by roadgravel
Give so little info coming from the officials, I wonder why we would have this info on his using Vicodin.

To make people think crazy drug addict shooting people...guns and drugs...

Way too many unanswered questions at this point. I hope during the trial, the entire trial, like Monday, they allow live cameras in the courtroom. It probably won't answer my questions, but it may come close, who knows.

reply to post by IamMe14


I can't find an arial view of were the gasmask was in relation to the car. In the photo showing just the gas mask, you're right, it can't be near the car.

I suppose that only leaves a couple of possibilities which are difficult to verify unless we have all the evidence/ scene photos that the police are holding. If they ever do!

Hello all, It's been a lovely day today here in the uk warm and clear blue sky's i've been at the beach all day and have missed alot and about ten pages, could somebody be so kind as to fill me in on any new developments

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm lost on the Vicodin angle. I've been following this thread intermittenly, but I've missed something.

Who says he was using Vicodin, and what does it have to do with the shooting?

I can see how it might account for his behavior at the arraignment, but it is completely irrelevant for the 4 months of planning, booby-trapping, and carrying out of the shooting. Vicodin might make you crash your car, lose your keys, drown, even overdose and not wakeup, but it doesn't make you psychotic for 4 straight months.

What did I miss?

Supposedly he told the police he took 100mg vicodin. I'm doubting the dosage, unless he took10- 20 pills because vicodin come in

5/500 which is 5 mg vicodin and 500 tylenol or
7.5/750 which is 7.5mg vicodin and 750 tylenol or
10/660 which is 10mg vicodin and 660 tylenol

So either he bumped his dose because he's an addict, or he lied to police, or I have no dang clue.

Originally posted by skitzspiricy

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm lost on the Vicodin angle. I've been following this thread intermittenly, but I've missed something.

Who says he was using Vicodin, and what does it have to do with the shooting?

I can see how it might account for his behavior at the arraignment, but it is completely irrelevant for the 4 months of planning, booby-trapping, and carrying out of the shooting. Vicodin might make you crash your car, lose your keys, drown, even overdose and not wakeup, but it doesn't make you psychotic for 4 straight months.

What did I miss?

Allegedly he stated when he was arrested, that he had taken 100mg of Vicodin.

Gone form the net for a few days and wow, the page thread goes from 50 something to 178. To everyone I was having a discussion with on Friday, so sorry. I can't seem to catch up with so many posts.

As for the vicodin. Many people get a bit confused. Vicodin is a combination of hydrocodone and tylenol. You see doses of 5/500 for example with the 5 being 5 mg of hydrocodone and 500 being 500mg of tylenol. He probably was a bit confused as to what was what.

I recall reading somewhere where the North HOllywood shootout criminals took pain meds before the robbery with the idea it would help them resist pain if they were shot. Perhaps Holmes saw this on discovery channel and tried to emulate them.

I would like to see a link to where it says anything about James taken vicodin. as I recall it was a cop that had reportedly taken a lot of vicodin and they thought that is who they were looking for at first

Originally posted by NAMTERCES

Originally posted by heycitizen
reply to post by samcrow

 

Useful insight. I took an abrupt downturn in my studies too, but it was when I was 16 and discovering boobs and beer. From what it sounds like, he really wanted into that program and internship, probably had to push himself to get there. Then he gets there and instantly becomes an "undistinguished" spaz? I don't think a neuroscience internship is going to have a lot of beer and boobs distractions. So what the hell happened there? The work of both his mentor and the professor might hold clues.

This is different from the changes a teenager undergoes. In this case, remember he was a top student, and he enters this PhD program where he'll find there are lots of other "top students" from around the nation and even the world. Suddenly, he's not so special anymore. He's no longer the top student. There are smarter people than him. For the first time in his life, he meets really smart guys, who outshine him in many ways. A typical response to this is for the student to shift gears, and find other interests where he can be special again. So, attention shifts away from his school work, maybe to other things like OWS or online chat rooms, or video games at the local pub, girls, or something. If he fails at all these other things in getting back that attention to himself of being special, then he'll conjure up some fantasy world where he's once again the star of the show.

Its good to fail as a teenager, a couple of times, because then one learns to cope early with adjustments to one's status in society. But, when someone has been very successful for most of their early years, and a failure hits later in life, it's just harder to cope, harder to adjust to the new reality, that everyone you meet is not "beneath" you in some way.

All these people he shot were lesser than him, in his mind, that's why he shot them. It was a way to re-establish his superiority. After all, a world in which there are people better than him couldn't exist, and if it seemed to exist, all must be illusion, and therefore it's ok to shoot at the moving bodies, that aren't really real anyway.

I don't disagree that the transition into highly competitive programs can be difficult, but what you're describing isn't particularly common or believable in this situation. My experience has been that these 'special' students typically embrace the environment that a program like UC-Denver's would provide. Now they're FINALLY into a situation where people 'get' them and they have people around them with which they can interact on a level not common previously. I think it's also difficult to say that this is the case given that Holmes was one of only six students in the program to receive an NIH grant. In other words, he was still 'special.'

Of course, he may have been an atypical student. I don't know that and neither does anybody else here. That answer lies with his faculty advisers, and they're oddly quiet (also suspect, and not particularly good advertisement for their program). However, based on my own personal and professional experience and the information at hand, I would be exceedingly surprised if this was a sudden, simple break in self-esteem.

reply to post by subject x


I've seen crazy stuff happen in person, nothing this crazy, but still pretty crazy. And yes, sometimes reality does look stranger than fiction. Sometimes something is so real that it looks "fake", because your mind can't imagine it being real and can't process it.

What stands out to me as appearing odd in this situation, more than anything, are the eye witness interviews. I don't want to keep repeating myself and citing the same examples over and over. Just dig back a few pages and it's all there. The eye witness stuff just does not add up.

One of them is an actor. OK fine, he's an actor, people are actors for a living. I know a few actors, but, I am in New York City. OK, so he's an actor in… Aurora, CO. Ok, I'll eat that. So, not only is one of the most most widely used eye witnesses an actor, he's also using multiple names on television. And now it's days later and he's on Bill O'Reilly claiming to have "testified in court". And using a fake name, though at least he seems to be sticking with "Corbin Dates" for now. Whatever.

Then the young parents with the newborn. It's a full day after the shooting. They are still in their tear gassed clothing. The mother claims to have shrapnel IN HER LEG. And they are giving tv interview after tv interview. Again, days later they also appear on cable news for more, without the baby. Would you travel and/or let your baby out of your site after something like that?

You bring a newborn to a midnight action movie.
You and your family get exposed to poison gas.
Your baby almost gets shot.
You take a shrapnel hit to the leg.
You just cheated death by the skin of your teeth.

What do you do?

A dozen tv interviews!

Peeeee-yewwwww. Stinks.

reply to post by happyhomemaker29


If he took a large dose of vicodin, he wouldn't have even been able to get all that gear on, let alone get in and out of the theatre and make all those shots. He might as well have said bath salts, and said he planned on eating what he killed.

We can eliminate the Vicodin angle right away. Even if he actually said that, he was just making excuses, it would be irrelevant to his actions.

So he was adopted.

his mother revealed she feared he had been disturbed for years and was concerned about his social isolation.

Arlene Holmes, who lives in San Diego, California and was only made aware of the shootings when a reporter called her for a comment, is said to have urged her son to seek counselling.

reportedly used police evidence bags as hand puppets after his arrest




Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... xzz21ZW6OjMe

www.washingtonpost.com...

Now you have to wonder who the biological parents were and if there was a history of mental illness, which we wont ever know.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Originally posted by skitzspiricy

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm lost on the Vicodin angle. I've been following this thread intermittenly, but I've missed something.

Who says he was using Vicodin, and what does it have to do with the shooting?

I can see how it might account for his behavior at the arraignment, but it is completely irrelevant for the 4 months of planning, booby-trapping, and carrying out of the shooting. Vicodin might make you crash your car, lose your keys, drown, even overdose and not wakeup, but it doesn't make you psychotic for 4 straight months.

What did I miss?

Allegedly he stated when he was arrested, that he had taken 100mg of Vicodin.

Not sure how true it is.

Also if it is true and he has been taking it for a long time, he would be tolerant to all the effects you just stated. When you start becoming tolerant and dependent, you need larger and larger doses.

edit on 24-7-2012 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)

My reply to your post. i added an edit.

Prescription medication addiction is very common.

Originally posted by heycitizen
reply to post by NAMTERCES

 

I get all that, but no one has ever said that he was a bad student, just that he was a bad intern, at Salk specifically.

I don't know about him being a bad student. But, I'm willing to bet that he was not the top student there. While, his previous prof said he was the "top of the top" at University of California Riverside. So, he would have very high expectations about his own abilities "relative" to others he was likely to meet.

All anyone knows is that he abruptly "quit the program" at Denver. There is no mention of his grades or performance there. His records there are sealed.

Considering the time taken to plan and acquire the weapons, he must have shifted his attention to other things, and away from his studies, sometime before he quit. Also, considering the fact that he didn't aim his hostilities at the school, he didn't blame the school for the change in himself. So, it is less likely that he had some disagreement with his Professor, for example, and more likely that the new people he met changed his own image of himself. Since he's not competing with the Professors for status, the change in image must come from interacting with other students. He quit because this was not the environment for him. He could not star here. That doesn't mean that he could not make it, by working hard etc.., just that he wouldn't be the number one guy in his year. That's a big change to go from being the top of the top to being just average. He might have accepted that if he'd got into MIT or Harvard, but at Univ of Colorado he expected to do better.

Of course, this is my speculation. It could also be something in the wider environment, i.e. the community in which he lived, that changed his view of himself. This is a combination of Man + Environment, the environment set him off. He had a predisposition to be transformed into the monster, but needed that catalyst. In a different environment, he might have been just fine.

Two main things remain unclear for me:
1. Body Gear near car outside of theatre 9:
-Did he remove the gear himself after leaving theatre 9? Or,
-Did the police remove the gear from him after apprehending him? Or,
-Did he show up at the station with all of the gear still on?
-IF he showed up at the station with all of the gear on, then there is a second set on site outside of the theatre. If this is the case then was there a second person dressed in similar fashion and removed items to blend in with victims and/or flee? Unless part of the gear was left on scene and the rest he was still wearing at the station.

2. Gas mask outside of theatre 8:
-If he made his way through theatre 8 from 9 and then exited 8, then that may be why the gas mask is so far away. What theatre did he exit? From what I remember it was 9 but then someone posted somewhere about him trying to get into 8?
-Could the gas mask be left from one of the police officers wearing one? I assume not if they have a yellow evidence tag next to it.
-Was there another gas mask near the car outside of theatre 9 or just that one near 8?
-If he exited theatre 9 and that gas mask outside of 8 is not a cops and there is not another one near the car, then either he walked all the way down, removed the mask, and walked all the way back or there was someone else.

Note there are probably not just cameras on the building, but also on the parking lot lights facing the building - so there may be a lot on those tapes that would bring to light what happened outside after the shooting and if there's more than one accomplice. Though that does not help us at this point unless someone leaks those.

Originally posted by NAMTERCESHe quit because this was not the environment for him. He could not star here. That doesn't mean that he could not make it, by working hard etc.., just that he wouldn't be the number one guy in his year. That's a big change to go from being the top of the top to being just average. He might have accepted that if he'd got into MIT or Harvard, but at Univ of Colorado he expected to do better.

You're making an awful lot of subjective, assumptive statements and presenting them as fact, and I sincerely doubt your credentials and/or authority to speak on the mechanics of a PhD program. UC-Denver is a top neuroscience school. Anybody in that field knows that. It is, in fact, up there with your 'big name' schools. The fact is that you simply don't know why he quit.

Originally posted by heycitizen
reply to post by 08051962

 

I've been scratching my head about the gas exposure the whole time. At minimum, you'd need to disrobe, throw away your clothes, and take one serious shower. But not one person did, not even the people with infants.

Then you have the eye witness videos. Half of them are very clearly fake, and contain weird repetitions of details like "one person". I think in one of the many Chris Ramos videos he actually says "I swear, there was just one guy". Like um, ok buddy, you're not on trial, no need to swear. Then he looks straight into the camera and gives a public service announcement.

Almost every interview video mentions tear gas, choking, etc. Yet nobody is being treated and they are all walking around in gassed up clothes? The Legarrato girl with the newborn is claiming to have shrapnel IN HER LEG during the interview, yet instead of going home, to a hospital, or to bed, she's doing tv. I don't care how much of an attention whore you are, if you have a soul, you go somewhere quiet and safe and take care of your baby. Hell, you don't even take your baby to a midnight action movie.

Stinks to high hell.

Again they were held there not being allowed to go home and shower. I think the baby was taken to hospital and was treated for the inhalation of whatever it was, pepper spray or tear gas..

There was one witness they said the bullets that went through the walls of theatre 9 into theatre 8 , they could see smoke coming through. On topic of theatre 8, I could have sworn I heard one was shot and killed in number 8 from a bullet that penetrated. Then I heard 10 bodies still left in number 9 for a day or so until removed. Plus two died in hospital, making it 12 dead. If 10 are left in number 9, two DOA, there's an extra one that doesn't add up, but I don't have every detail. Does anybody know about this?

I'm throwing in the towel on this one. Changed my mind. I'm convinced the whole thing is real. I'm done speculating.

From what I heard re his studies, he had failed on big exam, then withdrew as opposed to the school expelling him.
Now if a student who always excelled is suddenly not meeting his usual expectations, it's usually a sign something is wrong. He's depressed or on drugs. I think the former seems most likely.

I'm working on the timeline but there are two things I want to quickly note.

1. At 3:06 min the officer says "we have a party in the car shot", then gives off what I assume is the license plate and says Kia, white Kia.

So it wasn't mention of a "bomb unit" as someone said earlier. They clearly say "party in the car shot"

2. 4:35 min officer says to setup a perimeter.

I was wrong earlier, I thought this happened closer to 10min in.

Originally posted by starviego
A former classmate from the University of Colorado suggested another cause for the killings, describing Holmes as someone who had lost touch with reality after becoming 'obsessed' with video games.
The classmate told the Daily Mail: 'James was obsessed with computer games and was always playing role-playing games.
'I can’t remember which one but it was something like World of Warcraft, one of those where you compete against people on the internet.
'He did not have much of a life apart from that and doing his work. James seemed like he wanted to be in the game and be one of the characters.

I have to admit, I have never been into these games. So maybe I just don't understand all the hype.

I don't generally think that people are so influenced by media either. For instance, the idea that Manson caused the Columbine massacre was retarded.

However, when I was working in an office I had three colleagues who played World Of Warcraft, just them, no one else. And all three of them were conspiracy theorists.

I don't mean the kind of conspiracy theorist who looks at evidence and forms opinions that might raise unanswered questions, I mean the kind of conspiracy theorist who goes into a ranting incomprehensible ramble about everything from Mossad to the NWO, the Royals being lizard people to the existence of FEMA camps, tying it all together. These three people could point me to a hundred YouTube videos making wild claims about all kinds of nonsense, and they would take that as evidence.

One of the guys actually scared me with how unreasonable he was, you couldn't debate with him, if you did you were "brainwashed". He could rant for three hours about this crap too, and it got to the point where a senior member of staff had to have a discussion with him about his future at the company.

Like I said, I don't believe all the rubbish about media being an influence when it comes to killing, but I have only known three people who play World Of Warcraft and all three have been slightly unhinged from reality.

It should also be pointed out that all three worked night shifts too, and all three would have been sleep deprived on regular occasions.

IMO, when you combine sleep deprivation and some violent imagery and fantasy, there is a higher probability of being affected by that media. That's the only way I can explain away my own experiences.

I actually didn't think about the link until you mentioned it in your post.

I also think the police need to be looking at his mental state, the influence media has had on his life and his sleeping patterns. If he was working alone, I have a feeling they'll discover that he wasn't sleeping well, and spending a lot of his time playing such games.

Originally posted by samcrow
[You're making an awful lot of subjective, assumptive statements and presenting them as fact, and I sincerely doubt your credentials and/or authority to speak on the mechanics of a PhD program.

Yes, they are subjective and assumptive. Lacking detailed knowledge we have to fall back on our imagination.

However, I wasn't referring to the mechanics of a PhD program as such, just to the change of status of an individual in a new environment. It could be carpentry, at an apprentice shop, but the idea is the same, the focus is on the student himself, and the change he sees.

UC-Denver is a top neuroscience school. Anybody in that field knows that. It is, in fact, up there with your 'big name' schools.

Ok, you win. I'm not in the field, and I didn't know that.

The fact is that you simply don't know why he quit.

edit on 24-7-2012 by samcrow because: (no reason given)

No, he might have run out of money. As I understand it, he'd won this scholarship for one year, I'm not sure how he was planning to fund the other years. Maybe he couldn't get funding to continue, so had to quit. Then, he got depressed, that he was too poor to study there, and finally got angry, that life is unfair, and decided to rage against society.

I have toyed with many theories on how this all happened, from spirit possession to CIA mind control, to loss of self-esteem, to money problems.

I don't have enough facts.

But, I know one thing. Something changed. He was not always this way.