You want proof of flying saucers? This is it!

Just because some UFOs are secret military craft does not mean that ALL are military craft.

This is even more interesting considering that the USAF admitted in public that they did detect flying saucers and they may be interplanetary craft:

USAF Admissions

The USAF went as far to issue orders for pilots to shoot down UFOs flying over the white house:

USAF Shootdown

Interesting, does the USAF issue orders to shoot down their own craft?

The radar personnel gave an account of how they tracked the UFOs to a newspaper:

Radar Man Tracks Saucers

Even Project Blue Book, a scientific study of UFOs by the US government, which was heavily biased to NOT find any UFOs, found that 22% of 3200 cases could not be explained and the more information they received about those 22% the LESS they could be explained.

Project Blue Book Special Report 14

A scientific study of UFOs released by the French in 1999 found that 5% of all UFO cases could not be explained and that the ET Hypothesis fit the unexplained cases the best:

COMETA Report

If project blue book and the Condon report supposedly showed that nearly all UFO cases are simply natural phenomena or misidentifications, then why did the CIA study them and call the UFOs, after project blue book? You would think that if ALL UFOs were secret craft, they would have enough resources and clearances to know who or what is flying them?

CIA UFO Docs

If they are ALL secret craft, why does the (or A countries military) military repeatedly fly them, recklessly I might add, over airports, near commercial airliners, in full public view when many people are watching, not just one or twice, but many many times and in other countries!!:

Commercial Airline Pilots UFOs

Even NASA astronauts radioed to Houston about Alien spacecraft:

NASA Aliens

Gordon Cooper wrote a letter to the UN stating his belief in ET-UFOs:

Gordon Cooper UFOs

Apollo 14 EVA 1: We've had visitors again:

Apollo 14 Possible UFOs

These propeller-less craft were seen before the accepted invention of the jet engine:

Historical UFOs

reply to post by HomeBrew


it is total rubbish.

in these days of 2 megapixal mobile phone cameras in every kids hands all they came up with some fuzzy nazi bell?

not a single decent photo or video....

it's a faaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!



it is all rubbish.

reply to post by samaka


Most skeptics are believers. The only difference is that they are more sensible when it comes to evaluating sightings. You on the other had want to believe so badly that you overlook anything that might disprove each sighting that looks good at first glance. Also you believe what you are told in these 'it really happened' on sided documentaries like the one in the OP.

Originally posted by flexy123
Of course this depends on other factors as well, but if a witness (or multiple even) have nothing to gain by reporting UFOs, are otherwise trusty and solid people - some should consider what they report.

In this case, we have 200 (?) or so witnesses and after the documentary i have no reason to doubt that any of those witnesses actually say the truth (at least as it appeared to them).

James McDonald had some interesting things to say regarding witness testimony when he spoke before Congress on the topic of UFOs:

I want to emphasize, as one of the very important misconceptions that has been fostered, that instead of dealing with witnesses who are primarily looking for notoriety, who want to tell a good story, who are all out to gain attention, it is generally quite the opposite. And this is true in Australia, too. People are quite unwilling to tell you about a UFO sighting, afraid acquaintances would think they nave "gone around the bend," as Australians put it. Over and over you encounter that. People are reluctant to report what they are seeing. There is a real ridicule lid that has not been contrived by any group, it just has evolved in the way the whole problem has unfolded. This is not entirely new in science. It has occurred before.

And I would emphasize to those who cite jury trial experience that the tendency for a group of witnesses to an accident to come in with quite different accounts, must not be overstressed here. Those witnesses don't come in from, say, a street corner accident and claim they saw a giraffe killed by a tiger. They talk about an accident. They are confused about details. There is legally confusing difference of timing and distance, and so on; but all are in agreement that it was an auto accident.

So also when you deal with multiple-witness cases in UFO sightings. There is an impressive core of consistency; everybody is talking about an object that has no wings, all of 10 people may say it was dome shaped or something like that, and then there are minor differences as to how big they thought it was, how far away, and so on. Those latter variations do pose a very real problem. It stands as a negative factor with respect to the anecdotal data, but it does not mean we are not dealing with real sightings of real objects.

source

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
reply to post by HomeBrew

 

it is total rubbish.

in these days of 2 megapixal mobile phone cameras in every kids hands all they came up with some fuzzy nazi bell?

not a single decent photo or video....

it's a faaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!



it is all rubbish.

2 mega pixel camera's are useless for anything more than a few feet away. To take a good non fuzzy pic of something way up in the sky would require upwards of at least 10 mega pixel.

Originally posted by deloprator20000
Just because some UFOs are secret military craft does not mean that ALL are military craft.

This is even more interesting considering that the USAF admitted in public that they did detect flying saucers and they may be interplanetary craft:

USAF Admissions

The USAF went as far to issue orders for pilots to shoot down UFOs flying over the white house:

USAF Shootdown

Interesting, does the USAF issue orders to shoot down their own craft?

The radar personnel gave an account of how they tracked the UFOs to a newspaper:

Radar Man Tracks Saucers

Even Project Blue Book, a scientific study of UFOs by the US government, which was heavily biased to NOT find any UFOs, found that 22% of 3200 cases could not be explained and the more information they received about those 22% the LESS they could be explained.

Project Blue Book Special Report 14

A scientific study of UFOs released by the French in 1999 found that 5% of all UFO cases could not be explained and that the ET Hypothesis fit the unexplained cases the best:

COMETA Report

If project blue book and the Condon report supposedly showed that nearly all UFO cases are simply natural phenomena or misidentifications, then why did the CIA study them and call the UFOs, after project blue book? You would think that if ALL UFOs were secret craft, they would have enough resources and clearances to know who or what is flying them?

CIA UFO Docs

If they are ALL secret craft, why does the (or A countries military) military repeatedly fly them, recklessly I might add, over airports, near commercial airliners, in full public view when many people are watching, not just one or twice, but many many times and in other countries!!:

Commercial Airline Pilots UFOs

Even NASA astronauts radioed to Houston about Alien spacecraft:

NASA Aliens

Gordon Cooper wrote a letter to the UN stating his belief in ET-UFOs:

Gordon Cooper UFOs

Apollo 14 EVA 1: We've had visitors again:

Apollo 14 Possible UFOs

These propeller-less craft were seen before the accepted invention of the jet engine:

Historical UFOs

edit on 11-7-2012 by deloprator20000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2012 by deloprator20000 because: (no reason given)

Some good links
Keep me amused for hours

Originally posted by VoidHawk
The Title - You want proof of flying saucers? This is it!

You wrote

Originally posted by schuyler
All it proves is a bunch of kids and a few adults saw a couple of disks 45 years ago.

I wonder if you are willfully missing my point. The real question here is, so what? When the definition of "UFO" is applied literally, few people would deny they exist. Of course they do. Very few people, especially here, deny that. The argument comes AFTER this point.

What are they? Where are they from? Who owns them? Why is the government so interested in protecting them? Are they inter-dimensional? Are they from outer space? Can they time travel? You haven't even started to answer those questions.

This film is not unique. It's not definitive. We've been there, done that many times before, often times better than this film. Compare:

This film: Some kids saw a couple of disks. They flew away. The government arrived.

Roswell: The government reported they found a disk, then they said they didn't. Eye-witnesses saw a crashed saucer and dead bodies of small humanoids. People reported examining the debris. The government arrived, cleaned it all up. They said it was a balloon. Some of the witnesses stopped talking. Some disappeared. Some suddenly got very rich. Then the government changed its story and said it was an experiment with dummies. Then they changed their story again and said it was a mogul balloon. There has also been a whole lot of energy spent trying to discredit all the witnesses.

Now I ask you, which story is more compelling? Which story is more useful in terms of the information provided? I don't doubt this story. I'm willing to accept it as 100% true as presented.

Now what? This story does not allow you to take it any further.

I want to believe, I really do but surely by now there would be something that blows the debunkers clear out of the water? Until I see that I am sceptical ( military craft yes, but visitors from another planet?- I need more proof)

reply to post by VoidHawk

Most likely military experiments, both in flight capabilities and in psywarfare ie to gauge the malleability of the populous. But ya them flying saucers I do not think they are capable of any sort of meaningful space flight, there basically just cheep toys. I would think it was certain aspects in the military trying to test out and figure out how certain things work and operate that has been drooped into there laps.

If they were from another planet or dimension, you would not see them if they did not want to be seen. And even then if you saw one your mind would not be able to comprehend or put what you are seeing into any sort of context, or it would just completely blank it out.

The flying saucers even if they actually are some off world alien craft there most likely just pods. Now this UFO is a bit different and in the vid they say they captured it both at night and day, the one at day is interesting as it seems to be nothing like a saucer, in fact it looks like its a sort of transformer/living thing.

Originally posted by schuyler
This is not "debunking" the story; it is accepting it completely. It's just that you can't go anywhere with it.

True. Unfortunately, this is what happens to literally all UFO stories. If you look at the cold facts of the matter, at a certain point there is just no more information. You hit a brick wall. From there, all you have is speculation.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird



OMG ist Mothera!! ok sorry i couldnt resist. But really its creepy, the way its seems to have wings.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by lordaqua

 

It usually takes a lot more than just witness testimony alone to convict someone. In a courtroom it is a unique situation where a decision HAS to be reached. In court a 'decision' can be made on witness testimony but that does not make the testimony 'proof' which was the original claim made by the OP.

I might be able to provide 50 people that say that Elvis had lunch at my house yesterday but that doesnt prove he did. You might want to make a decision based on what they say but thats no proof.

Witnesses does not = proof.

So while the OP may have made a decision based on witness testimony there is no actual proof like he was claiming. Which is a shame, id love to see real proof of flying saucers.

edit on 10-7-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Just to clarify I never once said that witness testimony was "proof" of anything. What I was saying is that the grim truth remains that there ARE thousand of individuals who have been imprisoned by a jury conviction based only on witness testimony. I never implied that witness testimony was proof of anything. I actually agree - people do lie, people do make mistakes, people in generally are highly fallible.

However, it's supremely unlikely for someone to be fallible about a huge metal disc floating above the ground within arms reach. I would think if there were only two witnesses they may have had some kind of shared hallucination, but absolutely not when 5 or more people from various locations see something and all give the same description. The odds become impossible for it to be something other than what it was. It's hard to deny.

Originally posted by scrtsxcgirl
I can't believe there is nothing more in the video about the little girl (Tanya) who was taking by the ambulance and never seen again???

Yes it sure does add to the *mystery* doesn't it. It's possible that the people behind the film weren't able to track down Tanya. It is also possible that they avoided to do so because her supposed disappearance added to the *mystery*. According to the Westallhighschoolufo Yahoo group she is alive and well.

In short, Tanya is alive and well and lives now in Sydney, and we are hoping to hear more about what she remembers about the flying saucer incident in the near future. Source

Originally posted by BeHonest1
I want to believe, I really do but surely by now there would be something that blows the debunkers clear out of the water? Until I see that I am sceptical ( military craft yes, but visitors from another planet?- I need more proof)

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. These type of craft - yes even the Terrestrial craft from the black gov - emit EM fields that don't allow filming with any kind of conventional electronic equipment. They can only be photographed from afar - all we end up seeing is lights and blurry images.

If you really do some looking though there are some really awesome older photos (non digital) but even though many of these photos can't be debunked to this day, many people still refuse to believe in them.

Originally posted by schuyler
Now what? This story does not allow you to take it any further.

First of all, its entertained many people as is evidenced by the number of replies and flags. True?

Second. Goto page 5, last post. dawnprince has contacted the author of the video for more information, we're still waiting on that, and who knows where it might lead. Maybe if enough info is found pressure can be applied to the authorities and they can be forced to release information. Maybe these craft were genuine antigravity devices using power sources that could free us of our dependence on toxic oil? If we all sit back with the attitude of "So what" we'll never know will we. Got to start somewhere.

You said - "Now what? This story does not allow you to take it any further." Well thats probably true for most of the threads on ATS, so should we close down ats as we cant actualy go any further?

Have to say I'm rather surprised by your response.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by samaka

 

Most skeptics are believers. The only difference is that they are more sensible when it comes to evaluating sightings. You on the other had want to believe so badly that you overlook anything that might disprove each sighting that looks good at first glance. Also you believe what you are told in these 'it really happened' on sided documentaries like the one in the OP.

See this is were you assuming that I wanted to believe something so bad that we overlook other explanations. You're categorizing and labeling as all believers must go through this thought process of believing UFOs you believe this to be so because this is YOUR thought process or belief system like most debunkers /skeptics. However I can speak for many UFO believers that have witness a UFO phenomenon firsthand when no other logical explanation is viable. You can question and judge our sanity all you want and I don't blame you, this is an extraordinary phenomenon, a reality that feels so sci-fi. But when you begin loosen your belief system, to learn to be logical, learn to be humble, you can begin stitching phenomenons together.

Not everyone here is the stereotypical hillbilly looney another category that skeptics like label us as, matter of fact most of us are just as normal as you. Your belief system doesn't want to accept that you've been lied too your whole life and right under your nose. The control system wants you to believe that going to school, getting good grades, going to college, going to graduate school, getting a job, working 9-5 is the way of life, the way to be happy and successfull in your short 75 year lifespan. Sad thing is your going to realize all this that was taught to you was not in the interest of your happiness, you'll see it as a control system and it all starts to add up.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by samaka

 

Most skeptics are believers. The only difference is that they are more sensible when it comes to evaluating sightings. You on the other had want to believe so badly that you overlook anything that might disprove each sighting that looks good at first glance. Also you believe what you are told in these 'it really happened' on sided documentaries like the one in the OP.

See this is were you assuming that I wanted to believe something so bad that we overlook other explanations. You're categorizing and labeling as all believers must go through this thought process of believing UFOs you believe this to be so because this is YOUR thought process or belief system like most debunkers /skeptics. However I can speak for many UFO believers that have witness a UFO phenomenon firsthand when no other logical explanation is viable. You can question and judge our sanity all you want and I don't blame you, this is an extraordinary phenomenon, a reality that feels so sci-fi. But when you begin loosen your belief system, to learn to be logical, learn to be humble, you can begin stitching phenomenons together.

Not everyone here is the stereotypical hillbilly looney another category that skeptics like label us as, matter of fact most of us are just as normal as you. Your belief system doesn't want to accept that you've been lied too your whole life and right under your nose. The control system wants you to believe that going to school, getting good grades, going to college, going to graduate school, getting a job, working 9-5 is the way of life, the way to be happy and successfull in your short 75 year lifespan. Sad thing is your going to realize all this that was taught to you was not in the interest of your happiness, you'll see it as a control system and it all starts to add up.

Originally posted by samaka

The control system wants you to believe that going to school, getting good grades, going to college, going to graduate school, getting a job, working 9-5 is the way of life, the way to be happy and successfull in your short 75 year lifespan. Sad thing is your going to realize all this that was taught to you was not in the interest of your happiness, you'll see it as a control system and it all starts to add up.

You don't have to be a UFO believer (whatever that means) to figure that out. It appears you atrribute a skeptical mindset (i.e a critical mindset) with a will to uphold the status quo which is completely wrong.

Thanks for letting us know.

A big ZERO to me.

Have a nice day everyone.

COme on OP... be honest when you make a title. This is about testimonies, not about "ultimate proof" of flying saucers.

Damn, I was expecting for some US Air Force document proving flying saucers, or something.