All in the Name of $$$ Oxycontin Makers Pushing for FDA to Ok Use for SIX YEAR OLDS

reply to post by Advantage


I hope your little girl is ok. Again, I need to state there are times when drugs like these are necessary. The prevailing idea behind the trials, imho, is trying to make oxycontin a pain killer like tylenol - one that any doctor can prescribe for any number of reasons, not just like those in your case. Imagine going into your pediatrician and saying, my girl has a sprained ankle and can't sleep due to the pain - and being prescribed a drug that is number one on the death charts for pharmaceuticals. This is what they are trying to do.

CJ

reply to post by Advantage


Dam, I'm sorry to hear about all of that. It is so hard when it is your kids. I don't know if you've read the stories about my 4 year old, but we went through a lot for his first 2 years of life too. It has changed my life, that is for sure. We even had a John Q moment at one point with me forcing a doctor to send a fax for a transfer while the nurses were on the phone with the cops to come get me. It was pretty bad, but he is all better and a perfect 4 almost 5 year old now!

I hope your child is doing better these days.

There are always exceptions. I have a friend that has been battling cancer since he turned 26 years old, and he tries not to take too many painkillers, but after struggling for almost 5 years with this stuff, he can now eat Oxys like candy. A couple of months ago he took 17 of them over about a 90 minute period, just to get the pain down enough to drive himself to the hospital, and when he got there they rolled him in for emergency bladder surgery. Without the oxys he might have just passed out from the pain and died from septic shock. (or called an ambulance, but he wasn't thinking that clearly)

There are always exceptions, but here in Florida I've seen the damage first hand, and it is gruesome. The dirty pain clinics we had, would have people lined up outside the building, and down the street, standing in line for hours, just to go in and see a dirty doc, get a copy of a fake MRI, and get a prescription for 180 Oxys, 180 Vicodins, some Zanex, and some Ibuprofen to make it look legit. There were armed guards at the door, they were taking cash only payments, and there were literally garbage bags full of cash in the back rooms, because they were making money faster than the banks would accept it! People with legitimate needs don't drive 6 states away, and stand in line for 4 hours in the Florida sun. It is getting better now, but it was an epic disaster for a little while, and you better believe these folks would have loved to use their kids as additional drug mules.

If a kid is dying of cancer then he needs pain relief. I hate these kinds of threads because very few realize there are people in chronic pain that need opiates to have any quality of life.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
If a kid is dying of cancer then he needs pain relief. I hate these kinds of threads because very few realize there are people in chronic pain that need opiates to have any quality of life.

Uh, my kid was diagnosed with cancer at age three. Over 20 surgeries. Again, as stated several times, there are times when heavy pain killers are needed. This is an attempt to get oxycontin into everyday life. Doctors as of right now can prescribe oxycontin for the example you just gave. The company is only doing trials so they can keep a monopoly on the drug itself.

CJ

Originally posted by RealSpoke
If a kid is dying of cancer then he needs pain relief. I hate these kinds of threads because very few realize there are people in chronic pain that need opiates to have any quality of life.

For every one of those with a real life chronic need, there are 4 to 7 abusers that take the drugs either recreationally, or as part of an addiction from a previous need that has subsequently passed.

I could turn your statement around on you and say I hate these kinds of threads, because very few realize just how rampant the abuse and accidental overdose problem is. I see it every day, and it is disturbing. It is so much larger than you realize it is, and the accidental deaths are just so simple it is mind-boggling. People just go home, take their prescriptions, go to bed, and they never wake up again. It is heart-wrenching! You should read some of the accounts of mothers and fathers and wives of the people that are dying from these drugs. And it isn't just addicts, it is often regular people.

These drugs kill more people than Heroin, Cocaine, Crack, and all other illicit drugs combined.

These threads always crack me up, so many ignorant people on here.

First of all, if the government was trying to increase sales of Oxycontin, they would actually LET doctors prescribe it. As it sits right now, it's EXTREMELY difficult to get a script for Oxy. If there was some conspiracy to grow Purdue's profits, then why has the government cracked down in an ENORMOUS way on doctors that prescribe Oxy? Not only doctors that are prescribing it illegally, but most doctors are TERRIFIED to prescribe Oxy for anything other than people on their death bed.

Second of all, Purdue themselves are actually helping to STOP Oxy abuse. The most common way for people to use OC80s was to crush them up and snort them. Purdue changed their formula to the new OPs, which you cannot snort without going through a very lengthy and difficult process. They are similar to the texture of a skittle, you can't crush them into powder, which means no snorting, and REALLY hard to shoot up with.

So the government cracks down on doctors, cracks down on people using, and cracks down on people selling. All in a VERY big way, that's so extreme as to stop people who actually NEED this drug to stop from living their lives in extreme pain from getting it. In addition, Purdue reformulates their pills as to make it nearly impossible to snort or inject, thus stopping most routes of abuse. Yet you people are under the assumption that the government and Purdue are in collusion together to distribute this drug as widely as possible? It's just not true, sorry.

This whole Oxy thing will soon calm down. Why? As I stated earlier, the most commonly abused oxycodone containing meds used to be Oxycontin, which stands for OXYcodoneCONTINuous release. You eat an Oxycontin you don't get the full strength of the drug, it is metered out and slowly released over a 8-12 hour period depending on how your body metabolizes it. When you crush it up and snort it, you get it all at a once, thus the abuse.

When the government started its crackdown, prices rose and supply dwindled. On the other hand, with the reformulation of OC with the OP formula, demand and price (talking street level here, not legal demand) shot way down. The price of Oxycontin in many areas was cut it half, or lower. Illegal Oxy users DON'T want the reformulated Oxycontin, it's hard to abuse.

What they DO want, now, is Roxicodone. It's immediate release instead of continuous release. It can be crushed easily into a powder that can be snorted or injected. Roxis are what's in demand now for abusers, not Purdue manufactured Oxycontin. Most people that were using high doses of Oxy via snorting or shooting crushed Oxycontin moved onto Heroin, because it's cheaper and stronger, and in many places easier to get.

Roxi, btw, is manufactured by Xanodyne Pharmaceuticals, not Purdue.

You people try to blame the government, when THEY are making it EXTREMELY hard to get. You are blaming Purdue, who makes a product that the majority of synthetic opiate users don't even use anymore!! It's beyond ridiculous.

Originally posted by James1982
These threads always crack me up, so many ignorant people on here.

First of all, if the government was trying to increase sales of Oxycontin, they would actually LET doctors prescribe it. As it sits right now, it's EXTREMELY difficult to get a script for Oxy. If there was some conspiracy to grow Purdue's profits, then why has the government cracked down in an ENORMOUS way on doctors that prescribe Oxy? Not only doctors that are prescribing it illegally, but most doctors are TERRIFIED to prescribe Oxy for anything other than people on their death bed.

Second of all, Purdue themselves are actually helping to STOP Oxy abuse. The most common way for people to use OC80s was to crush them up and snort them. Purdue changed their formula to the new OPs, which you cannot snort without going through a very lengthy and difficult process. They are similar to the texture of a skittle, you can't crush them into powder, which means no snorting, and REALLY hard to shoot up with.

So the government cracks down on doctors, cracks down on people using, and cracks down on people selling. All in a VERY big way, that's so extreme as to stop people who actually NEED this drug to stop from living their lives in extreme pain from getting it. In addition, Purdue reformulates their pills as to make it nearly impossible to snort or inject, thus stopping most routes of abuse. Yet you people are under the assumption that the government and Purdue are in collusion together to distribute this drug as widely as possible? It's just not true, sorry.

This whole Oxy thing will soon calm down. Why? As I stated earlier, the most commonly abused oxycodone containing meds used to be Oxycontin, which stands for OXYcodoneCONTINuous release. You eat an Oxycontin you don't get the full strength of the drug, it is metered out and slowly released over a 8-12 hour period depending on how your body metabolizes it. When you crush it up and snort it, you get it all at a once, thus the abuse.

When the government started its crackdown, prices rose and supply dwindled. On the other hand, with the reformulation of OC with the OP formula, demand and price (talking street level here, not legal demand) shot way down. The price of Oxycontin in many areas was cut it half, or lower. Illegal Oxy users DON'T want the reformulated Oxycontin, it's hard to abuse.

What they DO want, now, is Roxicodone. It's immediate release instead of continuous release. It can be crushed easily into a powder that can be snorted or injected. Roxis are what's in demand now for abusers, not Purdue manufactured Oxycontin. Most people that were using high doses of Oxy via snorting or shooting crushed Oxycontin moved onto Heroin, because it's cheaper and stronger, and in many places easier to get.

Roxi, btw, is manufactured by Xanodyne Pharmaceuticals, not Purdue.

You people try to blame the government, when THEY are making it EXTREMELY hard to get. You are blaming Purdue, who makes a product that the majority of synthetic opiate users don't even use anymore!! It's beyond ridiculous.

Wisdom. You, sir, are the man! Awesome breakdown.

reply to post by James1982


Getting the FDA to approve the most addictive and dangerous pharmaceutical on the planet to children is a tough pill to swallow, pardon the pun. In your mind, only those who smoke or inject get addicted? The fact that the current form of the drug is used to make people into junkies should make you think harder than the response you posted. So you are all in favor of the use of oxycontin for 6 year olds with aches and pains and see no downside?

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

OxyContin Oral Side Effects

Nausea, vomiting, constipation, lightheadedness, dizziness, or drowsiness may occur. Some of these side effects may decrease after you have been using this medication for a while. If any of these effects persist or worsen, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly. To prevent constipation, eat a diet adequate in fiber, drink plenty of water, and exercise. Ask your pharmacist for help in selecting a laxative (such as a stimulant type with stool softener). To reduce the risk of dizziness and lightheadedness, get up slowly when rising from a sitting or lying position. You may notice an empty tablet shell in your stool. This is harmless because your body has already absorbed the medicine. Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects. Tell your doctor immediately if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: mental/mood changes (such as agitation, confusion, hallucinations), severe stomach/abdominal pain, difficulty urinating. Seek immediate medical attention if any of these rare but serious side effects occur: fainting, seizure, slow/shallow breathing, unusual drowsiness/difficulty waking up. A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, seek immediate medical attention if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing. This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

OxyContin Oral Warnings
See also Precautions section. Oxycodone has a high risk for abuse and severe, possibly fatal, breathing problems. The risk for harm is higher if you take the wrong dose/strength, or if you take it along with other drugs that might also affect breathing or how oxycodone works. Tell your doctor or pharmacist of all medications that you use, especially of drugs that can affect how oxycodone works (see also Drug Interactions section). Be sure you know how to take oxycodone and what other drugs you should avoid taking with it. Get immediate medical help if you notice unusual slow/shallow breathing. The higher strengths of this drug (more than 40 milligrams per tablet) should be used only if you have been regularly taking moderate to large amounts of narcotic pain medication. These strengths may cause overdose (even death) if taken by a person who has not been regularly taking narcotic medication. This medication should be used only for ongoing pain that requires strong narcotic pain medication at all times for an extended period. It should not be used for quick relief (for use as needed) of sudden, short-term or "breakthrough" pain. Do not break, crush, chew, or dissolve this medication. Taking broken, crushed, chewed, or dissolved sustained-action oxycodone could cause a fatal overdose. Keep this medicine in a safe place to prevent theft, misuse, or abuse. If a child accidentally swallows this drug, get emergency medical help right away.

And now they want to just GIVE this to kids....? (for the right amount of $$$ ofc)

What the hell....

oxycotin? thats kid stuff. Adults use heroin

Just had to comment on this because I see it over and over again.

Just like Big Banks on Wall Street, or the Big Corps in our Government, or Big Pharma etc

What your saying is that it is the job of these entities to make a profit off of others no matter who it may harm, and it is the responsibility of everyone else to protect themselves from these entities? Correct? Say no to a Nanny state protecting us from them right? They should be free to do as they please regardless of whom it may harm?

Do you think the same thing when it comes to having a defensive military against those countries that may wish to take advantage of us? If so, or not, why or why not? Is having a military to protect us from countries that wish to take advantage of us, asking for help from the Nanny State?

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Just so everyone knows, if the doctor prescribes oxycodone to you or your child, you are under no obligation to actually have it filled or take the pills. People act like these drug companies own them because they don't have enough sense to just say "no". I couldn't care less if anyone is addicted to anything, I have no business keeping them from their stuff. I just know I would ask the doctor for something not in the opiate category. Why is only worrying about yourself so difficult? Why is thinking for yourself so much more difficult?

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by James1982

 

Getting the FDA to approve the most addictive and dangerous pharmaceutical on the planet to children is a tough pill to swallow, pardon the pun. In your mind, only those who smoke or inject get addicted? The fact that the current form of the drug is used to make people into junkies should make you think harder than the response you posted. So you are all in favor of the use of oxycontin for 6 year olds with aches and pains and see no downside?

CJ

If a 6 year old is in extreme pain, they should have relief just like any other person. The discretion of the doctor, and more importantly the parents comes into play here. Literature on Oxycodone is easily available online, if your child's doctor is planning to prescribe them Oxycodone, it's your job to look it up and see if you want to take that chance.

They WILL NOT be giving 6 year old Oxy for "aches and pains" They don't give it to an adult for such things. You go to the doctor and say you have an aching back, or what have you, they will either tell you to exercise, take ibuprofen, or if you keep pushing and pushing will take an MRI, if they find something serious like a ruptured disk or something they will most likely give you Tylenol 3 (Acetamenophen with Codeine) or Vicodin. If you have major surgery they might give you 5mg IR oxycodone (not oxycontin) and percocet, but unlike what most people think, they do NOT hand this stuff out like candy.

If you are in serious enough pain to actually need higher dose or longer term opiates, most doctors won't deal with you. They will send you to a pain management clinic who will take care of your dosing of higher strength opiates. They do pill counts, where they call you in randomly and frequently to count your pills, to make sure you aren't taking more than you should, or selling them.

Several years ago in Florida, like someone else mentioned, it was like the wild west of pills. Not anymore. And everywhere else in the country doctors hold strong opiates stuffed so far up their butts it causes more pain to get them prescribed than you have in the first place. (figuratively speaking)

Every doctor knows opiates are addictive, every doctor will tell you they are addictive, ever pieces of literature you read on them will tell you they are addictive. There is NO excuse for being ignorant to the fact that, if you take them for a long period of time, or take them not as prescribed, you will become addicted. No excuse.

It's YOUR personal responsibility to decide whether or not you will chance an addiction to relieve yourself on the pain you are enduring. Opiates happen to be the best painkillers nature (or man) can conjure up (short of straight up numbing the area causing pain) Along with this great good comes great evil, the chance for addiction. Oxycontin isn't, by any means, the only opiate painkiller out there. There is Vicodin, Percocet, Roxicodone, Oxycontin, Morphine, Codeine, Methadone, Fentynal, Hydromorphone, Oxymorphone, the list is frikin endless. The one thing they have in common, other than their great use for pain relief, is their addictive properties.

So I will say again, it's YOUR responsibility to decide whether or not to take opiate pain killers. You know the risks, there is no excuse for not knowing. If you are in severe pain, and will be in severe pain for the rest of your life, living life on opiates isn't a big deal. You are going to have to use them forever anyway.

If you have surgery, and are only going to be in pain for a short while, make the choice. Do I want to chance this? Is it worth it riding out the pain without opiates? Can I get by using Tylenol, Asprin, and Ibuprofen? It's up to YOU, so don't blame other people for your mistakes.

I focused my previous post on the illegal and abuse aspect, because that is where the majority of fatalities from Oxy comes from. Opiates have a very legitimate use, but it comes with a strong responsibility, and that responsibility is YOURS, so take your life into your own hands and stop blaming other people for your choices (not talking to YOU specifically, just the metaphorical "you" as in the people who what I'm saying would apply to)

reply to post by jacobe001


Apples and oranges.

The difference is, if a foreign military is invading us, I can't simply say "no, I don't want to be invaded, sorry to waste your time, head on back home now"

If I get prescribed opiates and I don't want them, then I don't take them, it's simple. As I said before there is no excuse for not knowing the dangers of these drugs. Many people use them as directed for their specific purpose then stop when they don't need them anymore. Many people are going to be in severe pain for the rest of their lives and are going to need them for the rest of their lives so it doesn't matter if they are addicted (unless overzealous self righteous people try to stop them from getting their meds)

reply to post by Romekje


Well, yes. If a kid swallows a high dose of opiates they are in danger. If anyone without a tolerance takes high doses of opiates they are in danger. Same goes for alcohol, Ibuprofen, Tylenol, pretty much ANY drug whether it be prescription or over the counter.

A kid isn't going to go to the doctor for a scrapped knee and get a script for 120 80mg oxycontins. Never, ever going to happen.

A kid suffering from severe and chronic pain, might get prescribed an opiate (scores of different opiates from different manufacturers are available and prescribed) at a very very low dose to control this pain. Once the kid is is no longer in pain, they won't get it anymore. If it's a life-long issue, what do you want? Someone to live their life in a pain? Nothing yet manufactured or grown compares to opiates when it comes to controlling pain. You are basically saying those in severe pain should just live their lives in such a condition without relief because some idiots act stupid and OD?

Should I not be allowed to drink because some people can't handle alcohol, and either become alcoholics and die of liver failure or alcohol poisoning?

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
oxycotin? thats kid stuff. Adults use heroin

I think you got it backwards. Oxy kills more people.

reply to post by James1982


Nobody is stopping the docs from prescribing Oxy, and nobody is stopping the pharmacies from dispensing it. They are just requiring the docs to have a legitimate reason to prescribe it, and that reason should be backed up by the patient's history. It isn't hard to get if you have a relationship with a doctor and a need for the drug.

As far as the formula change, I don't think it is that big of a deterrent. People buy cases of cold medicine just to be able to get enough to make a little bit of meth. The Oxy is still a very profitable drug on the street. So is Vicodin, Percocet, and all the others. You are right that Roxi is a great one though! There is also a push to make a stronger version of Oxy and Roxi too. It may be coming very soon.

reply to post by James1982


Perhaps I am being flippant with my characterization, but I would go so far as to say if big pharma could lobby hard enough, they would be happy to have drugs like this be available for less serious issues. I guess I am getting a little lost in my own thread. The fact is, Perdue downplayed the effects of the drug and got sued and lost from the outset. They tried to make it seem less adddicting, even going so far as to alter the time/perscription dosages. They now are running trials on kids for one reason and one reason only - to make more money. I am saddened to say I believe that helping people is not their primary goal. It is big boats, trips to Bali, and fast cars.

CJ

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by James1982

 

Nobody is stopping the docs from prescribing Oxy, and nobody is stopping the pharmacies from dispensing it. They are just requiring the docs to have a legitimate reason to prescribe it, and that reason should be backed up by the patient's history. It isn't hard to get if you have a relationship with a doctor and a need for the drug.

As far as the formula change, I don't think it is that big of a deterrent. People buy cases of cold medicine just to be able to get enough to make a little bit of meth. The Oxy is still a very profitable drug on the street. So is Vicodin, Percocet, and all the others. You are right that Roxi is a great one though! There is also a push to make a stronger version of Oxy and Roxi too. It may be coming very soon.

edit on 2-7-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

They are pushing very hard on doctors to not prescribe them. To many doctors it's just more of a hassle to deal with pain patients because they don't want anyone breathing down their neck.

I know 3 people who have been on rather high doses of opiates for long periods of time (4 years, 10+ years, and a little over 5 years, respectively) One of their doctors was moving out of state, so they could no longer see them. This person is not a pill seeker, not a druggie, they have very serious spinal issues to the point of being disabled because of it. They are in constant, severe pain. Because they were on opiates for such a long period of time they have a tolerance, which is very normal, and has nothing to do with abuse.

This person has tried to get a new doctor now that their old one is moving out of town, and even knowing the long medical history of this person, out of many, many doctors, not a single one will give this person their current dosage of medication. This person is a fairly close family member and I know, even at their current medication level they are still in extreme pain and have days they can't get out of bed.

Going to a new doctor that would cut their medication in half would not only cause them to get sick, but also put them into a level of pain where they would be worthless at taking care of their own affairs, basically requiring them to have a live-in nurse because they would nearly be bed-ridden. I offer help when I can, but I need to support myself and can't spend all day with them to help them out.

Because of the extreme pressure put on doctors to not prescribe opiates, or high doses of opiates, there are tons of people like this family member, who may be unable to care for themselves because of the extreme pain they live with day to day, if their medication is taken away. It just seems awful to me, and this is why I have such a strong opinion on the matter. I refuse to make some people suffer because other people can't be responsible. I find it, and anyone that supports such action disgusting.

As far as pharmacies, some actually refuse to sell such things because they are scared of robberies as well as government. There have been plenty of pharmacies that have been raiding, for doing nothing other than filling prescriptions they have been given. Not to mention the stigma patients deal with, having pharmacists looking down their noses at them like they are big druggies.

And yes there is still a thriving pill market on the "street" (I use that term loosely) but I think the days of explosive amounts of new users and abusers are behind us. All it takes is a look around various forums that cover this specific subject and people from around the country report drastic lowering of prices for OC due to lack of demand, many people switching to heroin, or moving to other opiates than OC. Just like the huge explosion of crack that settled down after awhile, I think the same will happen with the OC craze. Yes crack is still around, but nothing like it used to be.

This whole thing boils down to personal responsibility, yet people want to subject others to living a life of pain and misery because of the actions of other people, as I said I refuse to accept such absurdity.

This doctor flooded the streets of Pittsburgh suburbia for a few years. One man one pain clinic could cause soooo much damage Pittsburgh Dr. Feelgood

Percocet and Oxycontin are virtually the same thing. Pecocet has tylenol in it and Oxy is straight Oxycodone on time release. In my area its Percocet instant release 30mg tabs plus every other milligram. Vicodin every milligram,

I know of people that are chronic pain sufferers and some have cancer that sale their prescriptions to make ends meet. Its highly lucritive and they need the extra cash. Its sad it is like that.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


I'm not going to deny their motivation is profit, the same could be said for the vast majority of companies out there. But at the same time they offer a very useful service of providing relief to many people every day. That's how the market works, someone's work is motivated by money, and they make money because their product is useful. Can't say I have a huge problem with that concept, as it applies to this specific circumstance.

As far as them getting these drugs prescribed to children for minor issues, I don't see it ever happening. It would make far more sense, if their goal was increased sales, to push for the drugs to be used on adults for more benign issues. Adults generally have much more money, and more instances of minor aches and pains than children do. I don't see why they would give children heavy duty drugs for minor issues, but not adults.

Hell I know a cancer patient that was given nothing more than 5mg oxycodone. A cancer patient. I find it really hard to believe they'll be giving children strong opiates for a scraped knee or sprained ankle when many adult people in serious, long lasting pain, can't get much for their ailments.