All in the Name of $$$ Oxycontin Makers Pushing for FDA to Ok Use for SIX YEAR OLDS

reply to post by getreadyalready


And with those, the battle is only the physical implications. We are now talking about children who have developed defense mechanisms, and are creating an internal identity. So not only will there be withdrawl symptoms initally but I'm sure years of therapy afterward to heal the emotional scars.

Sweet, now junkie parents will be able to get thier kids aprescription just to get a fix. Hopefully someone at the FDA has some common sense and decides this is absolutely ridiculous. I have my doubts though, if it lines their pockets with money they'll probbaly see it through. Sad.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


I live in Florida, and first hand know what you are talking about. I am bound by the ATS rules, and not talk about my personal experience with this dangerous drug.
I can say this tho. 90% of all people I know are some how connected with that drug. Lots of pill mills down here. Yet many of them are getting shut down, and they are really cracking down.

But if you have Cash money, you can get them out of most pharmacies. Which is what the drug dealers are able to put down the money to get them out for those who can't afford their own meds, and have to split it with the person who put out the money..
Money man, money.

reply to post by getreadyalready


As a kid growing up with constant ear infections I could have used some real pain relief. All I remember is laying on the floor for days hoping I would die so the pain would stop. I don't get why everyone is so excited over this issue, aren't children entitled to real pain relief or is that reserved for adults only?
It's not the kids that are the issue, it would be the parents who might seek to have them prescribed for the child only to take them themselves. In that case I would make the parents urine test to ensure they weren't taking them.
I fully appreciate the addictive quality of these drugs, they are wicked bad but to those in pain they are a gift from heaven.
If they are proven safe for children then by all means they should have access to the same drugs as any patient

Btw - Not any doctor can prescribe oxycontin, they must be certified in pain medicine (at least in Virginia, perhaps it's nationwide). Believe me, they don't just hand them out to anybody. The vast majority are only written for patients in true chronic pain.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Just so everyone knows, if the doctor prescribes oxycodone to you or your child, you are under no obligation to actually have it filled or take the pills. People act like these drug companies own them because they don't have enough sense to just say "no". I couldn't care less if anyone is addicted to anything, I have no business keeping them from their stuff. I just know I would ask the doctor for something not in the opiate category. Why is only worrying about yourself so difficult? Why is thinking for yourself so much more difficult?

You are missing one factor here:

Your child is in pain. The ONLY thing the doctor will prescribe is OC. what then? Let your child stay in pain, or give them the drug?

Tell the doctor my child is allergic to opiates? Maybe go to another doctor? Nobody said purdue plans to force OC on anyone, especially children. They'll have plenty of mindless sheep to feed it to without my faimly taking part.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Just so everyone knows, if the doctor prescribes oxycodone to you or your child, you are under no obligation to actually have it filled or take the pills. People act like these drug companies own them because they don't have enough sense to just say "no". I couldn't care less if anyone is addicted to anything, I have no business keeping them from their stuff. I just know I would ask the doctor for something not in the opiate category. Why is only worrying about yourself so difficult? Why is thinking for yourself so much more difficult?

You are missing one factor here:

Your child is in pain. The ONLY thing the doctor will prescribe is OC. what then? Let your child stay in pain, or give them the drug?

Tell the doctor my child is allergic to opiates? Maybe go to another doctor? Nobody said purdue plans to force OC on anyone, especially children. They'll have plenty of mindless sheep to feed it to without my faimly taking part.

You missed what I was saying. What of those who do not have the option of seeing another doctor?

Im not saying that they are going to FORCE it on anyone. I AM saying that this will give many families no other choice.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Its not the kids, but it is the parents and the doctors. Oxy can be lethal even in prescription doses, because people build up a tolerance, and sometimes the doctors are careless, and they might prescribe the same dosage for a new patient as they did for a 5 year habitual user. The guy with the 5 year history is on a dosage that would kill the first time user.

In Florida it doesn't take any special designation to prescribe Oxy. Any doctor with a DEA registration can prescribe narcotics, although we did make it illegal as of July 2011 to dispense the narcotics from their office. That cut down on a lot of the cash business the bad doctors were doing.

Personally, my kids don't even get codeine. I know your history, and I know you have some real issues that demand real medication, but an awful lot of people just expect to never have pain. A certain amount of pain is normal and natural. I don't want my kids expecting a pill to fix everything for them. The potential for overuse or abuse is huge.

In reality, there is nothing stopping doctors from currently prescribing Oxy to kids. It would be off-label use, but that is common and not illegal. The issue would be when we go to bust one of these Dr. Feelgoods, and his defense is the FDA approval. It gives us regulators less authority, so it gives the bad doctors more latitude to do bad things.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

As a kid growing up with constant ear infections I could have used some real pain relief. All I remember is laying on the floor for days hoping I would die so the pain would stop. I don't get why everyone is so excited over this issue, aren't children entitled to real pain relief or is that reserved for adults only?
It's not the kids that are the issue, it would be the parents who might seek to have them prescribed for the child only to take them themselves. In that case I would make the parents urine test to ensure they weren't taking them.
I fully appreciate the addictive quality of these drugs, they are wicked bad but to those in pain they are a gift from heaven.
If they are proven safe for children then by all means they should have access to the same drugs as any patient

Btw - Not any doctor can prescribe oxycontin, they must be certified in pain medicine (at least in Virginia, perhaps it's nationwide). Believe me, they don't just hand them out to anybody. The vast majority are only written for patients in true chronic pain.

edit on 2-7-2012 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

I will start by addressing the quote "I don't see why everyone is getting so excited over this issue"...

#1) This opoid is extremely addictive and dangerous. The stats showing the withdrawl effects and overdose potential are frightening. It is the number one cause of death from a prescription medicine.
#2) Children have undeveloped brains, and the introduction of these substances has been shown to decrease cognitive ability.
#3) There are several medications now available that are not as extreme that can treat pain for things such as ear infections.

Now, "If they are proven safe for children"...

#1) They are conducting trials currently (see OP) but as the head of the Children's Hospital in Palo Alto says, he sees this as a reason to extend the life of their patent. It is in debate the true nature of the studies.
#2) In cases of terminal diseases, it may have benefits.
#3) The question regarding your symptoms, pain from ear aches, is it worth risking a life of addiction/withdrawl symptoms to stop this horrible but temporary pain? There is a reason morphine isn't given out easily.

Lastly, the trials are an indication that any pediatrician will be able to prescribe oxycontin. As we have seen with many drugs, this leads to abuse. Considering the known dangers of this drug, wouldn't it be prudent to say, a year of pain is better than a life lost to the drug? I guess I just don't trust Perdue and their studies in the matter, just like many pediatrician doctors.

CJ

Obamacare will pay for it to your children, not mine though.

reply to post by TWISTEDWORDS


I don't think it is a stretch to say the pill popping pharmaceutical lobby influences who ever may be in power. Too much say but then again, isn't that the American way of politics?

CJ

A gramme is better than a damn.

Ohhh yes this is a good idea. I live in Florida Oxy central. It is no better or much different than heroin. All we need is a bunch of dope sick elementary school kids. Dope em up so they sit still and dumb em down so they never realize they are slaves. I don't doubt it will happen the drug companies own the FDA. Not that it matters with the amount of residual drugs in the drinking water. I hope these evil bastards are reincarnated as drug addicted babies. Ever see a newborn go through withdrawal? Ya fun times.

reply to post by zysin5

There is a better and safer drug for cancer pain that has never killed a person in its 5000 year history as a medical alternative that keeps appetite up as well, but are currently illegal because of big pharma.

When any of you have a child who has had a liver transplant and is given tylenol for pain 2 days after the surgery.. get back to me. Also, when the transplant goes bad.. and your child suffers 4 more surgeries.. and is given tylenol.. get back to me then as well.

Its not anyones fault but the parents fault if these pain killers are abused and doled out like candy by pediatricians. Parents can gauge their childs pain and be smart enough to say no thanks. Having opiates and real pain killer choices for pediatrics and pediatric surgery is a serious problem.

Originally posted by Advantage
When any of you have a child who has had a liver transplant and is given tylenol for pain 2 days after the surgery.. get back to me. Also, when the transplant goes bad.. and your child suffers 4 more surgeries.. and is given tylenol.. get back to me then as well.

Its not anyones fault but the parents fault if these pain killers are abused and doled out like candy by pediatricians. Parents can gauge their childs pain and be smart enough to say no thanks. Having opiates and real pain killer choices for pediatrics and pediatric surgery is a serious problem.

Tylenol? Wow. There are many other pain killers out there more effective than that. I do agree that there are circumstances that require more than that - my own son has had over 20 surgeries and I would not have agreed to tylenol for pain medication. I think when it is looked at subjectively one must understand the nature of the drug and what it can or cannot do to the person. Oxycontin is the most dangerous prescribed medicine available and the company that makes is (Perdue) is really looking at this option to keep its patent - not for the benefit of children.

CJ

reply to post by Advantage


It is more than the parents fault, it is also the doctors fault a lot of the time.

Obviously your child had a little different situation, and that is when good doctors know it is ok to go off label and prescribe the right thing for the job, and as long as the kid doesn't OD, then the doc will never get in trouble for going off label. BUT, those are special circumstances.

Also, just for the record, I wouldn't think any narcotic would be appropriate after a liver transplant? Those things are hard on the liver. I wouldn't even think Tylenol would be appropriate after a liver transplant? Seems to me there would be better drugs that could be given intravenously and processed by a different organ instead of taxing a brand new liver?

reply to post by ColoradoJens

#1) They are conducting trials currently (see OP) but as the head of the Children's Hospital in Palo Alto says, he sees this as a reason to extend the life of their patent. It is in debate the true nature of the studies.

You know what I just realized? While I entirely disagree with giving Oxy to children, and even more frightening development is the fact that as soon as the patent expires, there will be 1000 generic brands of Oxy from 1000 different manufacturers hitting the pharmacies, and the streets, and it will be even more difficult to control!

Maybe extending the patent is a good idea?

What worries me about this is this.
I've suffered crippling pain non-stop for the last 10 years and was on oxy to help the pain. I was only on it for about 2 months, but in the end I just couldn't take it any more due to extreme intense dreams.
Dreams can't hurt... right? Well, when I was on this stuff all I would dream was pain. My body would be tormented by vicious acts. I'd feel my skin melting as I was burned alive. Next night it would be my legs being slowly crushed by a steam roller as it creeped up towards my head, but I could not wake. Then another night which was when I finally called it quits, a black demon like thing would pick with his fingernail at my skin until he'd made a hole (me feeling every inch of this, unable to wake) and then he'd stick his finger in and start tearing slowly strips of my skin. The agony was indescribable.

Sure, it worked to help my pain during the day, but it does weird things to your head when you sleep. I now suffer quite intense pain which is only somewhat dulled by far less effective meds, but at least it stopped those nightmares.

To give this drug to a kid, I could not think of anything more sickening, if a kids reacts to this like I did I hope the bastards who approved this go through EVERYTHING I dreamed.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Advantage

 

It is more than the parents fault, it is also the doctors fault a lot of the time.

Obviously your child had a little different situation, and that is when good doctors know it is ok to go off label and prescribe the right thing for the job, and as long as the kid doesn't OD, then the doc will never get in trouble for going off label. BUT, those are special circumstances.

Also, just for the record, I wouldn't think any narcotic would be appropriate after a liver transplant? Those things are hard on the liver. I wouldn't even think Tylenol would be appropriate after a liver transplant? Seems to me there would be better drugs that could be given intravenously and processed by a different organ instead of taxing a brand new liver?

She had morphine in PICU the first 2 days.. when put in a reg room.. tylenol. Tylenol is hard on the liver as well. Most pain killers are hard on the liver.. but when you have a kid writhing in pain, you weigh the odds. They want to get them off of pain killers as soon as they can so they can get them up and about.. but she had a very difficult time and rejected back to back for almost 2 yrs, the liver was bad on one part and she had drain tubes in several spots for months at home we had to drain every few hrs.. and then one day we had a full container of puss and screaming in the middle of the night.. basically a LOT of pain for a kid. Opioids DO have a place in pediatrics. We did receive a baby dose of vicodin when they finally figured out she wasnt being overreactive and the liver was messed up and draining bile into her abdominal cavity. Then it was back to tylenol.

edited to add.. oxy would have been less hard on the new liver due to it not having the addition of tylenol in it.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

#1) They are conducting trials currently (see OP) but as the head of the Children's Hospital in Palo Alto says, he sees this as a reason to extend the life of their patent. It is in debate the true nature of the studies.

You know what I just realized? While I entirely disagree with giving Oxy to children, and even more frightening development is the fact that as soon as the patent expires, there will be 1000 generic brands of Oxy from 1000 different manufacturers hitting the pharmacies, and the streets, and it will be even more difficult to control!

Maybe extending the patent is a good idea?

Well, you have a point. Maybe it is time that we stopped allowing anyone to get this type of pain killer for just about any reason. I find the hypocrisy incredible when it comes to allowing "drug companies" the ability to flood the streets with their wares yet natural and safer drugs remain "bad" due to social stigma. When you have a drug that is the primary contributor in deaths of so many, perhaps it is time to stop and take a look at what it is doing.

CJ