Australia Is A Facist Dictatorship

reply to post by CrimsonKapital

I totally agree with you in regards to our lack of a democracy, and how Julie Gillard obtained power. With the coming election, no matter who wins, we all lose... they are the same person... but what other choice do we have?! There's no point voting Greens or Nationals, as they just give up their votes on preferences anyway.

Unfortunately, I feel that if we ever did have somebody with something to say, who actually made a challenge for the leadership, they would not have the advertising budget to keep up with the level spending by the two major parties, be kept down by interest groups who don't share similar interests, and be smeared in every way possiible, as which appears to be the way our elections are fought these days. "If you think I'm bad... the opposition is worse."

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I see your point, but I see it like Russia they call themselves democratic, with the votes, free speech against the government, water, food, housing, etc everything that you listed except underneath all that there are fears that Russia is becoming a dictatorship.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Who would I vote for out of those candidates? Is there an option to leave my vote blank?

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Because a democracy is where the people have the say on what government policies will be implemented, oh yeah like the carbon tax? We had no say on that matter even though the clear majority of Australians were fiercely against it, how is that in anyway democratic?

The public do not vote on every piece of legislation. In a democracy we vote in a representative who votes on legislation on our behalf. If you disagree with the way your local representative is voting, let them know.

Those elections that we have are nothing more than a con for the people, you have a choice to choose between a red clown (Juliar Gillard) and an absolute moron (Tony Abbott), BOTH parties might I add have pretty much the same policies, remember Tony Abbott was actually calling for a carbon tax before last election!!!

Whilst I agree with your thoughts on the leaders of the 2 major parties, we do have more than 2 parties.

I think most Australians were absolutely appauled, if not terrified of the way Julia Gillard came to power. For those of you who don't know, she lobbied with the faceless powerbrokers to bring down the Rudd government, from there she took up title of Primeminister of Australia, WITHOUT a democratic vote of the people.

I'm not a fan of the way this went down either but we never get to vote on the leader of a party, it is up to the party themselves.

And lets not also forget how she is silencing the media from reporting on her government

Do you have some reference material concerning this? I haven't heard this accusation before.

Originally posted by Rexamillian
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

I totally agree with you in regards to our lack of a democracy, and how Julie Gillard obtained power. With the coming election, no matter who wins, we all lose... they are the same person... but what other choice do we have?! There's no point voting Greens or Nationals, as they just give up their votes on preferences anyway.

Unfortunately, I feel that if we ever did have somebody with something to say, who actually made a challenge for the leadership, they would not have the advertising budget to keep up with the level spending by the two major parties, be kept down by interest groups who don't share similar interests, and be smeared in every way possiible, as which appears to be the way our elections are fought these days. "If you think I'm bad... the opposition is worse."

Thanks for the comment and I agree who wins out of all of this? Definately not the people.. I never considered voting for the greens as many of their policies are communistic, etc and it is the Carbon tax is actually a piece of legislation of the Greens that Labour has had to accept in order to form government.

Just take a look at the Opposition they are literally being financed by multi-national corporations and elitist Billionaires, there is no way independents can compete with them.

reply to post by feelingconnected


The GST, in hindsight is actually a good tax.
I really do like it and you have to admit it hasn’t changed the way of life here.
now, a 10% tax on everything seems reasonable considering the money we earn, everyone pays it regardless.

However this tax, doesn’t make sense.

Albanese was on the other night and he couldn’t answer a simple question
'' how much will the temperature change with this tax ''

Truth is, it wont. This tax will do NOTHING for climate change.
Even more so, Australia produces 1.5% of the worlds emissions.

So, even if Australia managed to completely eradicate its emissions to 0%, how in gods good name will that make any difference what so ever?

Also,

The government forces the largest emissions companies to pay the tax
These emissions companies (mining, manufacturing, farming....) then pass on the extra tax to the consumers.
The government, in turn gives money to the consumers so they dont feel the affects of the tax.

Why are we manipulating the entire consumer system in Australia just so no one ends up better or worse?

Company A pays 5 billion in tax to government.
Company A passes on 3 billion in costs to consumer
Government passes on 3 billion to consumer to cover cost

.... and we're meant to believe that this will somehow make companies limit their emissions?

Bah, the problem is we are all too spread out to cause a great movement. 2000 in Sydney, 1000 in Melbourne (brrr, too cold to complain outside!), is just no where near enough. I think if our population was concentrated like a country in Europe, then I think it could be possible to bring down the government. (as we've seen in the past year)

Gillard, once put in power (all chess like), has shown none of her previous bite. Every word she speaks are practiced lines fed to her to regurgitate back to us like we're still in kindergarten. It is pretty pathetic and dire. Abbott, jebus... How the heck did that complete dope become leader of the opposition? He makes up stuff on the spot, then his cabinet runs about trying to 'explain' what he reallllllly meant to say.
It is hair pulling frustration, but back at ground zero, where the regular aussies get about with their daily lives we treat them for what they are. Nothing but news entertainment. We worry about getting food for our families and friends and things within our grasp.

But, if we were all chunked together on Tassie - momentum would cause a revolution by the weeks end.

Originally posted by aaron2209

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Because a democracy is where the people have the say on what government policies will be implemented, oh yeah like the carbon tax? We had no say on that matter even though the clear majority of Australians were fiercely against it, how is that in anyway democratic?

The public do not vote on every piece of legislation. In a democracy we vote in a representative who votes on legislation on our behalf. If you disagree with the way your local representative is voting, let them know.

Australia is a parliamentary democracy so I know we don't vote on every piece of legislation. BUT something as big as the carbon tax which will affect EVERY Australian MUST have a mandate for, she refused to put the tax to the election instead lying her way through.

Those elections that we have are nothing more than a con for the people, you have a choice to choose between a red clown (Juliar Gillard) and an absolute moron (Tony Abbott), BOTH parties might I add have pretty much the same policies, remember Tony Abbott was actually calling for a carbon tax before last election!!!

Whilst I agree with your thoughts on the leaders of the 2 major parties, we do have more than 2 parties.

I know there are more than 2 parties but in essence most people only vote for one of the big two, otherwise who else would you vote for the Greens?
Or what about Katter?

I think most Australians were absolutely appauled, if not terrified of the way Julia Gillard came to power. For those of you who don't know, she lobbied with the faceless powerbrokers to bring down the Rudd government, from there she took up title of Primeminister of Australia, WITHOUT a democratic vote of the people.

I'm not a fan of the way this went down either but we never get to vote on the leader of a party, it is up to the party themselves.

I know we don't vote for the leader of a party but the people ALWAYS know who is the leader of a party before they are voted in and in many cases people vote for the face of the party, ie (Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, etc)

And lets not also forget how she is silencing the media from reporting on her government

Do you have some reference material concerning this? I haven't heard this accusation before.

Here you go!!!

www.cnngo.com...

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Originally posted by Qumulys
Bah, the problem is we are all too spread out to cause a great movement. 2000 in Sydney, 1000 in Melbourne (brrr, too cold to complain outside!), is just no where near enough. I think if our population was concentrated like a country in Europe, then I think it could be possible to bring down the government. (as we've seen in the past year)

Gillard, once put in power (all chess like), has shown none of her previous bite. Every word she speaks are practiced lines fed to her to regurgitate back to us like we're still in kindergarten. It is pretty pathetic and dire. Abbott, jebus... How the heck did that complete dope become leader of the opposition? He makes up stuff on the spot, then his cabinet runs about trying to 'explain' what he reallllllly meant to say.
It is hair pulling frustration, but back at ground zero, where the regular aussies get about with their daily lives we treat them for what they are. Nothing but news entertainment. We worry about getting food for our families and friends and things within our grasp.

But, if we were all chunked together on Tassie - momentum would cause a revolution by the weeks end.

edit on 1-7-2012 by Qumulys because: (no reason given)

You are 100% spot on, this is called "tyranny of distance" where the people are so far away from the government that protesting is almost useless.
What about that event in Canberra where truckies tried to protest the carbon tax, yet were stopped by police at the ACT border and refused entry.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Albanese was on the other night and he couldn’t answer a simple question
'' how much will the temperature change with this tax ''

Because no one can

I do agree the GST was actually not as bad in the end as the scare mongers were trying so hard to get the public to believe. The same maybe true of the CT, in the long run. As you say. Whats the point though.
Maybe we should be just sacrificing virgins to the climate god to keep the planet cool, instead of a Tax. We all know money wont help

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I laugh when people start going on about Freedom.
I'm in Australia, right this minute I am free to slack off from work, take a sickie, go to the pub, order a chinese beer while eating asian food, talking about Allah, Jesus, Buddha and wearing any piece of clothing I want.
Im allowed 10 children, 3 dogs, 362 cats and can even put my parents in an old folks home.
I can build a house, own a shop, cut down tree's, buy a car, paint anything i want all from the joy of my own life.
Freedom? you know, if I don’t have freedom them sadly I don’t want or need it, because asking for anything more in life is just being greedy.

I understand what you're saying, but we all have different ambitions in life. If this is your idea of freedom, our land abounds in it. However, this is not what I would call freedom at all; it makes me sad that we've been conditioned to accept this, to be happy with it even...

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
The thing is though I'm not complaining, I'm explaining. Australians just have this attitude of "she'll be alright" and it just irritates me.

I can understand that as it occurs here in the US as well.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Do you know Australia is the ONLY Western nation without a constitutional Bill of rights? Do you know how terrifying that is?

I did not know that about Australia so thank you for teaching me something today. As far as terrifying I can only guess on that as I have never been faced with that scenario.

I was under the impression the Australian Constitution, the human rights commission and a few other laws essentially do the same thing the US Bill of Rights does. Is that correct or not quite?

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
But other than that I agree with you something must be done, but what?

Its easy to put together a list of the issues / problems. The next step would be to figure out what the most ideal solution would be.

Once done you will have a road map that takes you from point A to point Z. The nice thing about this type of political roadmap is you are not restricted to just one route. Like any long journey it ill take more than a day and as you progress you are bound to come upon road construction, detours, traffic james etc.

Those obstacles are only temporary for those people who don't give up just because an obstacle appeared. View your representatives as the various autoclubs (like AAA and what not). They are your resource for travel and will have the specific information any person traveling will need. They are also great when a detour is coming up as they can help you bypass it without getting stuck. When you start having engine trouble they can also help you out with that. Eventually you will arrive at the desired destination, maybe sometime after you origionally wanted to be there but you arrive just the same.

The nice thing about Autoclubs is you are not the only member. So aside from the resources of the club, you also can rely on the resources / feedback / suggestions / refinements from the other clubs members.

The cheezy road trip / autop club analogy aside, the trip of a thousand miles begins with the first step. I get you are upset with how your Government is doing things (I am just as irritated at mine). The one mistake I see, and its my opinion, is when people find fault with the government they have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. One bad law seems to be all thats needed to condemn the government, regardless of the fact they have passed many good laws. Just because a bad law is passed does not mean its the end of the discussion / fight. Laws can be changed in whole or in part and sometimes all thats needed is a minor tweak to make a bad law into a very good law.

There is nothing stopping anyone from contacting their representatives to be heard. I make it a point when dealing with my reps to send a quick thank you if they did something good that has a positive outcome. When they don't I let them know. However when I send the letter I dont just complain. I explain why I feel its bad, how it negatively affected me (or will affect) and at the very end I offer alternatives solutions. I also tell them that I am more than willing to assist in making changes.

Before people write that off not only have I received letters / emails back from my reps, I have actually had phone calls from their offices telling me they received my letter and have passed it on to the rep.

Unless people get involved our reps get the mindset that what they are doing is right and the people like it. Even when they support something the minority of their consituents dont care for, sometimes its enough to get some changes that "waters" the negative aspect down.

I am not in Australia and am not familiar with the politics there so my response may not apply. Long story short get involved. Keep in touch with your rep and offer ideas / solutions to issues. They are people also and to assume they came to the same conclusion you have on a topic is dangerous.

Why not make your own Bill of Rights using whats already in the various laws / Constitution. Pull out the important ones and make a bill that encompasses them. While it may seem redundant the more laws protecting it the harder it is for government to remove / change it.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by Tasmanaut


I agree, this isnt my idea of perfect life but what im getting at is i make every decision on what i want to do.
For you, in this case.
Can you tell me any freedoms you want, but the government forces you not to have?

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Because a democracy is where the people have the say on what government policies will be implemented, oh yeah like the carbon tax?

No we don't. When was the last time you got to vote directly on a piece of legislation?

Australia is a parliamentary democracy so I know we don't vote on every piece of legislation. BUT something as big as the carbon tax which will affect EVERY Australian MUST have a mandate for, she refused to put the tax to the election instead lying her way through.

I would have liked a vote on going to war but it just doesn't happen.

I know there are more than 2 parties but in essence most people only vote for one of the big two, otherwise who else would you vote for the Greens?
Or what about Katter?

I vote for which ever representative I feel is most closely aligned with my beliefs. Hopefully will be The Pirate Party at the next election.

If most people aren't doing this, than we have ourselves to blame.

I know we don't vote for the leader of a party but the people ALWAYS know who is the leader of a party before they are voted in and in many cases people vote for the face of the party, ie (Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, etc)

Being nothing more than figureheads for the party, I feel a lot of people overstate their importance anyway. Policies are put forth by the party and voted on by the party.

Here you go!!!

www.cnngo.com...

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Cheers but I don't touch anything written by Andrew Bolt lol He has quite the agenda.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

I expected a much larger turnout of tens of thousands but it appears Australians were too lazy to get off their butts and go demonstrate yesterday!

And now you're whining about it?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

Out of curiosity have you ever thought about bitching less and actually getting off your butt and doing something about it?

A couple of things ...

Febuary 2003 anti-war protest ...

New York had approximately 400, 000 persons show up. This is approximately 5% of New York's population, and was two years after 9/11.

Melbourne had 200, 000 people show up approx, which is also approximately 5% of their population.

These aren't exact numbers, they're based on currenty 2011 - 2012ish populations, and obviously both cities will have grown since then but ... Australians aren't exactly lazy, they're just media driven probably just like your country.

There's a pile of issues contributing to this one. Australia has a compulsory voting system, and many persons vote like it's a football team. Many issues are not understood entirely or any level of depth by your average person who, for example, assumes that carbon tax is good for the evironment or that it's some type of progress.

Take gun control for example ... your average person in Australia will immediately say 'we don't need automatic weapons' blah blah blah ... ignoring the fact that Western Australia doesn't have acceptable provisions for film makers which does the state out of millions of dollars of income, and other states (despite allegedly being more strict) allow near active assault weaponry into states for big budget movies ... one can do nothing but face palm. Though I imagine if one of the theatrical armorers in Victoria went nutso and began distributing 7.62 rounds in a less than pleasent way our population would go nuts despite the fact these weapons have been in the country since the 70s.

It's a combination of speed of light communication mixed with a dash of stupidity. On one hand, supporters of niche issues such as gun control can meet up easily ... on the other hand all it takes is the apathetic majority to not understand or (worse) misunderstand the issue for things to go completely the wrong way.

If it's about war or sexuality you will get a larger attendance than anything related to the economy or anything else that's actually often important. Honestly, best way to get persons to show up to a protest is have two people of the same gender make out whilst offering 'world peace'. Everyone loves world peace (just ask Miss Illinois) and people love to waste their time discussing two people making out.

People will protest about it once the change is made and it hurts them but till then it's all good; until it hurts them it's a niche issue. It actually sounds remarkbly like every other democratic country I've been to; often reactive, never proactive enough.

I volunteer my time to a number of causes, and there is no greater weapon against these causes than apathy, lack of information and lack of time due to work and family. Not to mention environmental organisations which are often high jacked by agenda setting and money making.

'Democracy' would be great if we were given every Friday off to research what we were voting on and to volunteer our time to make a difference (I won't even start on the lack of party options in Australia, our two options are almost the same). As it stands, the OP does have some valid points. Internet censorship and gun control are perfect examples ... If anyone wants to see how ridiculous Australia can get, look at the horrifying maze of doom that is our gun licensing laws and try to discuss those laws with the appropriate police rep. Also see our lack of 18+ games which is only changing next year, and that's one that has been protested for a long time and was essentially being blocked by a single individual.

In other words, if we start complaining about carbon tax now ... we might have a change in law in oh ... 2025 when transformers become real and I get my first awesome jet pack.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Yes its from a tv show but the message contained, imo, is a very relevent one. Look past the actors and the acting and apply it to your situation.

"America has lost a giant tonight and I've lost a friend. Leo McGarry dedicated his life to public service. To the notion that every citizen is responsible for making this country a better place. That we have a sacred duty to participate in our democracy. To leave America stronger for the next generation. If I win this election, the country will be worse off because Leo McGarry won't be there to help me run it. But I don't want anyone to vote for or against me because of Leo McGarry. This race wasn't; about him and it isn't about me. It's a vision for America that will outlast Leo and outlast me. There's an America that's bigger than any of us. And for those of you who haven't yet voted, it is the only thing that should matter when you go to the polls tonight. Thank you."

reply to post by Pinke


I never said Australians were lazy nor do I believe they are. My comment is directed at the mindset that complaining with no actions to correct is lazy. Anyone can complain however the problem will only be resolved by moving past the complaining and into action.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Can you tell me any freedoms you want, but the government forces you not to have?

I can try, though I cannot say the government 'forces' me not to have these freedoms; its more extremely inconvenient. I would like the freedom to live without financial concern, to live without paying tax or bills (wouldn't we all...). I would like to live and travel on the road, free to spend time however I see fit. I would like to live without the need for constant employment, free to pursue my music and my art. That's about it really. No one is forcing me to not achieve these things, but it is very inconvenient and difficult in this society. Not everyone is cut out to be a part of the rat race or to help the cogs in the wheel spin. I am one such person, I would just like to live my life peacefully. I cannot contribute much to society other than my music, but this is not enough to support me financially. I hope that makes sense

Yep Australian Society sucks.
many many things get me grr

Why are kids taught another language in school, if a language should be taught it should be the local aboriginal language.

If a child is ill from school for more than two days, you need a doctors certificate to say why. its not because they care about the child's health, they need the numbers for government funds.

And why have most technical schools turned into high schools? what no basic skills needed any more? only text book white collar office workers?

that's just to name a few grr's I have.

love and harmony
Whateva

I think these made up taxes are pointless.

GST tax - Howard goverment

cigarette tax - rudd goverment
alcohol pop tax - rudd

mining tax - gillard goverment
carbon tax gillard goverment

more to come.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Do you know Australia is the ONLY Western nation without a constitutional Bill of rights? Do you know how terrifying that is?
But other than that I agree with you something must be done, but what?

Then whats this? or is that not it ?
Commonwealth Consolidated Acts

I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would love to run for polatics and would win by a landslide, but they are to scared and rightly so.
The saddest day for a long time in this country was when Pauline was allowed to front 1 nation if only we had someone with half a brain running that show it could/would have had a very different outcome, even without the budget of the 2 parties the new age of social media etc still allows for a good chance.
We had the element of surprise and the big 2 were scared s%$tless mark my words that's why the went after her so ruthlessly, didn't help that she was an idiot who couldn't hold an intellectual debate but they wanted her so humiliated so disgraced and so incarcerated before the people that anyone else would think long and hard before placing their own head on the chopping block.

What we need is a revolt or good old fashioned lynching so that these people realise there are still consequences for them beyond a golden handshake & retirement on easy street.