UK ready to take on Israel over fate of children clapped in irons

Just to make it clear, I do not support violence from anyone on whatever side. I do, however, understand where it comes from and I do, however, understand that the problem goes back further into history than just recent decades. This has been a problem for thousands of years....in essence religions beating the crap out of each other because they believe their "God" is the correct one.

When push comes to shove though, and I see a people who are clearly outnumbered and outgunned attempting to cling to some semblance of existence in the face of a wall of Israeli might, I tend to root for the ones who are having genocide committed against them in the name of an invisible being in the sky who can conjure rainbows on command.

reply to post by Azadok2day


I don't know what Koran you are reading but the one I have read preaches the same love for fellow man and tolerance for others as the Bible does.

Methinks you haven't actually read the Koran, instead you choose to regurgitate what others with an agenda have told you it says.

Originally posted by Kryties
Maybe Hamas was driven to the point of wanting Israel destroyed when they had to pick up the remains of their families splattered across the streets by Israeli weapons?

You really need to quit seeing only what you want while ignoring any info that does not support your view.

The exact same argument can be applied to Israel with the actions of Hamas.

There is absolutely nothing in the Israel founding documents / laws / etc that calls for the complete and total destruction of Palestinians / Palestine / Arabs / Muslims / etc etc etc. So to try and make a comparison is like comparing apples to bigfoot.

Please explain how Israel should act towards groups who call for its total destruction? Could we not make an argument that the extremists groups (Hamas / Hezzbullah / Iran / Syria) are advocating genocide by calling for Israels destruction?

Do you think there could be changes if Hamas and other groups removed the destruction of ISrael requirement from their charters?

As I said so long as that stance remains, we have a group pointing a loaded gun at Israel. How should they resolve that deilemma? How should Hamas resolve that dilemma?

Secondly how far off topic are we going to go? And no thats not a snotty question. You stated you wanted to stick to the legirons issue yet we seem to swerve into a multitude of issues. Are we debating separate issues or are you wanting to try and start a conversation / debate by linking all the issues with the end result being minors in legcuffs?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Muckster
Err... no no no... You answer the question please... not divert to someone else’s opinion or deflect by answering with another question. I asked you a direct question... have the decency to give a direct answer!

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

Answer that and ill shall answer...

"We were sitting in court and saw a section of a preliminary hearing when a very young looking child, a boy, was brought in wearing a brown uniform with leg irons on.

Under the UN guidelines, leg irons are legal if used appropriately, for instance if the child was a flight risk while being transported between detention and court.



Palestinian TV Show Celebrates Ramadan with ‘The Best Mothers’…of Suicide Bombers

To celebrate the Muslim holiday of Ramadan, Palestinian TV has launched a new program called “The Best Mothers.“ But who constitutes the ”best mothers” according to Palestinians?

Apparently ones whose children were suicide bombers who killed innocent Israelis and themselves, and hence, became “martyrs.”

The 10-minute segment, that reportedly airs every day, features a different Palestinian mother in her home, talking about the children of whom she is most proud.

Palestinian Media Watch reported that last week, PA TV chose to interview the mother of Darin Abu Aisheh, a suicide bomber who blew herself up at a roadblock in 2002, wounding three Israelis.

Link

LOL - Are you a politician... because you are great at avoiding taking any responsibility or even directly answering the question.

OK so the UN thinks its fine, under certain conditions such as if the child was a flight risk while being transported between detention and court. ok great...

But this is not what this thread is talking about and you know it... hooding and detaining children in leg irons...

From the OP's source...

Children from the West Bank are held in conditions that could amount to torture, such as solitary confinement, with little or no access to their parents. They can be forced to stay awake before being verbally as well as physically abused and coerced into signing confessions they cannot read.

and...

We were sitting in court and saw a section of a preliminary hearing when a very young looking child, a boy, was brought in wearing a brown uniform with leg irons on. We were shocked by that. This was a situation where we had been invited into the military courts for briefings from senior judges

So, as you can clearly see, we are not talking about restraint for protection... the accusations are tantamount to torture!!

So again i am asking YOU directly... and i want your personal thoughts, not a link to a propaganda website... or a quote from someone else... or some UN guidelines... YOU answer the question please, from your own heart...

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

In fact i could also add to theis question... keeping them hooded and deprive them of sleep... but for now i will keep it simple.

Please answer yourself with no links or propaganda pictures!

Originally posted by Kryties
Just to make it clear, I do not support violence from anyone on whatever side. I do, however, understand where it comes from and I do, however, understand that the problem goes back further into history than just recent decades. This has been a problem for thousands of years....in essence religions beating the crap out of each other because they believe their "God" is the correct one.

When push comes to shove though, and I see a people who are clearly outnumbered and outgunned attempting to cling to some semblance of existence in the face of a wall of Israeli might, I tend to root for the ones who are having genocide committed against them in the name of an invisible being in the sky who can conjure rainbows on command.

Then if you root for the ones having genocide committed against them , you should be on the side of Israel . There are billions of muslims and maybe ten million Jews . The Jews have been attacked and destroyed numerous times throughout history . The Arabs are just trying to finish the job , it is that simple but because you hate Jews , your posts are clear , your logic is flawed .

Originally posted by Kryties
Just to make it clear, I do not support violence from anyone on whatever side. I do, however, understand where it comes from and I do, however, understand that the problem goes back further into history than just recent decades. This has been a problem for thousands of years....in essence religions beating the crap out of each other because they believe their "God" is the correct one.

Going to war over religion is like fighting over who has the better imaginary friend.

Originally posted by Kryties
When push comes to shove though, and I see a people who are clearly outnumbered and outgunned attempting to cling to some semblance of existence in the face of a wall of Israeli might, I tend to root for the ones who are having genocide committed against them in the name of an invisible being in the sky who can conjure rainbows on command.

Again if we look at the flip side how many times has Israel been invaded / attacked by Arab countries?

Just like the argument people use for the West Bank and Gaza, the same argument you just made can be applied to Israel while taking into account her neighbors and their intentions.

Again please stop with the agenda and drama words. Simply stating genocide over and over and over doesnt make it true.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Please explain how Israel should act towards groups who call for its total destruction? Could we not make an argument that the extremists groups (Hamas / Hezzbullah / Iran / Syria) are advocating genocide by calling for Israels destruction?

Do you think there could be changes if Hamas and other groups removed the destruction of ISrael requirement from their charters?

As I said so long as that stance remains, we have a group pointing a loaded gun at Israel. How should they resolve that deilemma? How should Hamas resolve that dilemma?

My god man, haven't you read the multiple posts of mine in this thread which states that Hama's actions are in retaliation to Israels actions in the first place? Israel started this mate, and I don't blame the Palestinians one little bit for defending themselves.

Secondly how far off topic are we going to go? And no thats not a snotty question. You stated you wanted to stick to the legirons issue yet we seem to swerve into a multitude of issues. Are we debating separate issues or are you wanting to try and start a conversation / debate by linking all the issues with the end result being minors in legcuffs?

You may not have meant it as snotty, but that's how it came off.

I have already answered the leg-irons question multiple times and have branched out into talking about other points posters have raised seeing as though, clearly, they are unable to stick to the topic themselves.

Originally posted by Kryties

I don't know what Koran you are reading but the one I have read preaches the same love for fellow man and tolerance for others as the Bible does.

Methinks you haven't actually read the Koran, instead you choose to regurgitate what others with an agenda have told you it says.

Cleary you are spreading dissinformation. The Koran and Hadiths are full of violent jihad, not love and tolerance.

Violent Jihad makes up

• 24% of the Medinan Koran
• 21% of the Hadith and
• 67% of the Sira.

Center for the Study of Political Islam

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran

Allah's Apostle said:

"I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 24

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

Hamas, who are Wahhabi Muslims, take these violent exortations to spread Islam by the sword very seriously.

Hence all of the suicide bombers.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Again please stop with the agenda and drama words. Simply stating genocide over and over and over doesnt make it true.

It does if that is what is happening. It's called the 'truth' - nothing more, nothing less and if the truth comes off as an 'agenda" or 'drama' then so be it.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Azadok2day

 

I don't know what Koran you are reading but the one I have read preaches the same love for fellow man and tolerance for others as the Bible does.

Methinks you haven't actually read the Koran, instead you choose to regurgitate what others with an agenda have told you it says.

edit on 28/6/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

So are you saying yor Koran does not advocate that all the world will submit to Allah and mooohammed as his prophet ?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Cleary you are spreading dissinformation. The Koran and Hadiths are full of violent jihad, not love and tolerance.

Watching you squirm and shout trying to get my attention is rather amusing. Did you miss the post where I said I will not discuss this matter further with a dual-passport holder with an agenda?

Keep squirming though......it's hilarious to watch!!

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Azadok2day

 

I don't know what Koran you are reading but the one I have read preaches the same love for fellow man and tolerance for others as the Bible does.

Methinks you haven't actually read the Koran, instead you choose to regurgitate what others with an agenda have told you it says.

edit on 28/6/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Can you show me where it teaches peace and love?

I agree about the bible / other religions having violent passages as well. However to claim there are no such verses in the Q'uran is not correct.

for hundreds of years religious and racial groups have brainwashed their children to hate the other religious and racial groups.

this needs to stop because IMHO we are not going to advance a species and we'll all end up dead in a nuclear explosion.

people need to take a step back, give their head a shake and think about their lives in a logical, mature way, without any influence from any religious source. but i know that any of this common sense approach won't happen.

see you in the mushroom cloud.

Originally posted by Azadok2day
So are you saying yor Koran does not advocate that all the world will submit to Allah and mooohammed as his prophet ?

Apologists for Islam make me laugh.

Does Islam mean peace? If anyone has bother to check, a diplomatic translation of 'Islam' is 'unification'.

A less politically correct translation is 'domination'. Check it out with as many translators as you can find.

Islam is the religion of unification. It doesn't have the same ring about it does it?

Certainly, Hamas wants to unify all Palestinians under their extremist Wahhabi Islamic creed.

Originally posted by Azadok2day

So are you saying yor Koran does not advocate that all the world will submit to Allah and mooohammed as his prophet ?

My Koran? What? At no point in time have I ever claimed to be Muslim, nor of any religion for that matter. My multiple posts in this thread attest to this and your ridiculous attempts to claim otherwise only serve to detract from the intelligence of your argument even further.

Please quote me the relevant Koran scripture where it claims that "all the world will submit to Allah and mooohammed as his prophet". I'll bet my left testicle you cannot.

Oh and the 'mooohammed' joke? Not funny, in fact it just proves to me your obvious agenda against Muslims.

Originally posted by Kryties
Watching you squirm and shout trying to get my attention is rather amusing. Did you miss the post where I said I will not discuss this matter further with a dual-passport holder with an agenda?

Keep squirming though......it's hilarious to watch!!

Yet you have not risen above ad hominem attacks I see.

Palestinians encourage children to commit suicide



Hamas indoctrination of Kids: Bombs more precious than children

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Quran (2:191-193)

Quran (2:216)

Quran (3:151)

Quran (4:74)

Quran (4:89)

Quran (5:33)

Quran (8:12)

Can you show me where it teaches peace and love?

I agree about the bible / other religions having violent passages as well. However to claim there are no such verses in the Q'uran is not correct.

CONTEXT

[color=gold]CONTEXT

CONTEXT

You may wish to look this up in the dictionary you seem to like referring to.

I seem to recall many instances in the bible where, if the verse is not taken in context, the text reads as something completely different to it's original meaning. The same applies to the Koran, I thought you were smart enough to recognise this.

Originally posted by Kryties
My god man, haven't you read the multiple posts of mine in this thread which states that Hama's actions are in retaliation to Israels actions in the first place? Israel started this mate, and I don't blame the Palestinians one little bit for defending themselves.

Palestinians are not defending themselves. They are being purposely slaughtered by Hamas / Hezzbullah / Iran / Syria in order to destroy Israel. They are not in retaliation as its in their charter.

Israel didnt start this however its evident they are going to finish it so long as Hamas wants them wiped out.

Question - Do you support Hamas's goal of eliminating all Israelis, including civilians?

Originally posted by Kryties
You may not have meant it as snotty, but that's how it came off.

Hence the reason for the comment.

Originally posted by Kryties
I have already answered the leg-irons question multiple times and have branched out into talking about other points posters have raised seeing as though, clearly, they are unable to stick to the topic themselves.

Says the person who constantly brings up genocide, Hamas and all the other misinformation and intentional ignorance by rejecting any and all information that doesnt support their position.

You are the one who who chastized me for not remaining on topic while apparently exempting yourself from the same standard.

Case in point -
You arguing the op article is proof positive, even though the people who wrote the article / did the reports state otherwise.

You dismissing western sources that dont support your agenda, labeling them as propoganda / unreliable.

It does not work both ways and trying to argue to that point is futile.

reply to post by ollncasino


Still squirming?


The fact that your agenda is quite clear to everyone is what makes it all the more hilarious!

Originally posted by Xcathdra

your agenda

Again with the 'agenda' thing. What agenda is that again, precisely? Is it the one that attempts to extract the truth from the sludge-pit full of lies and deceit? Is it that agenda? Because that is an agenda I am BLOODY PROUD to be following.