Islam the Religion of Peace? I don't think so...

Originally posted by DragonFire1024

All you have been doing is pulling scriptures out to suit your needs.

I am still waiting for you to show where I have "pulled verses out of context"?

Please prove your point. If you can't then I can only assume that your opinion is based on assumption rather than scholarly study.

I have taken the time to study Islam. You clearly have not. If you have, then show me where I have taken verses out of context.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
From what I can tell by your posts, it seems you want every Muslim to be an extremist.

Yet in this post I state that most Muslims were peaceful and that virtually all Islamic terrorists are Wahhabi or Salafi.

Frankly, I find it somewhat bizarre that you don't allow facts to get in the way of your assumptions.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
You keep pointing out scriptures that you are claiming to be fact.

Muslims would get quite angry that you are asserting that Islamic scriptures are not facts. Islamic scriptures do make historical claims and Muslims, as a matter of Islamic doctrine, must take the scriptures I quoted literally.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
You are also claiming that the Koran is a book of war and hate. I could say the same thing about the Bible too.

The Old Testament IS a book of war and hate.

Muhammad as revealed in the Koran, Hadith and Sura WAS a violent warlord.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
But you know what, I am smarter than that, and most people I know who follow the Bible are smart enough to know that hate isn't the way and that Christianity wasn't created to hate as it would be hypocrisy.

Muslims must take the Koran literally. I not sure you knew that.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
So if you want to insist on pulling more scripture out to suit you context of hate, then do so.

Please show where I have "pulled verses out of context?

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
You continue to post scripture in an attempt to justify that Islam and the Koran are hateful.

The Koran, Hadith and the Sura show that Muhammad was a violent warlord.

I have posted verses from the Koran and Hadith that prove that.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
That is entirely false. If you truly believe that, then we re all totally screwed as a race. I'm just thankful that there are some people left on this planet who don't hate monger to get their point across.

Yet you have demonstrated little to no knowledge of Islamic scripture.

Please show where I have "pulled verses out of context"?

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

Can you give me your opinion on Muhammad stating that participating in Jihad was the best deed, second only to believing in Allah?

As relayed in a Hadith considered holy to Sunni Muslims who make up 85%+ of all Muslims?

reply to post by CrimsonKapital

Islam is either the cause, supporter, or aggressor in at least 27 of them!!!

That is not true. There are countries which have internal conflicts as the consequence of either internal disruption or external disruption and their religion so happens to be muslim.

A lot of those countries you listed are being bombed by NATO. So who started the conflicts? It would not be a surprise if some civil war erupted, or was planned to weaken internal resistance to the NATO forces who want to bomb them.

NATO has a history of creating internal conflict prior to attacking a country in order to weaken it. Look at Libya for example.

Now lets take your examples one at a time

War in Afghanistan (2001-present)

NATO invaded and started the war dude. The citizens of Afghanistan so happen to be muslim.

Afghan Civil War

I suppose you are talking about this one: en.wikipedia.org...

That war had to do with foreign interference and internal conflicts. You know the American Civil war? Guess what religion they were? You have to see what they were fighting for, not their religion

The Arab Spring

Removal of an American supported (possibly installed) Dictator.

See as you keep going through them one by one, these conflicts have nothing to do with Islam as it has to do with internal politics and external interference.

I don't have time to go through them one by one but you get my point. Plus what was the predominant religion in Nazi Germany at the start of WW2? See what I mean. Do not let your bigotry and hate blind you.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
Also...instead of pointing out hate, war, more hate and more war, why not mention the good things the Koran says? So far, I have not seen you make any attempt to do so and in my mind that sounds like you have an agenda...

Perhaps you can?

If nothing else, you might actually introduce yourself to studying what is in the Koran rather than just assuming much.

While you are at it, you might Google the meaning of the the term 'abrogation' in the context of the Koran.

reply to post by ScatterBrain

You can find the same calls to violence in the christian bible (isn't it all about how one interprets this stuff?). There is no argument that there are people who will use religion to commit acts of violence.

Actually thats the jewish part of the book, the christian part is the New Testament and nowhere in the NT will Jesus advocate murdering people, he came to save us . Christianity derived from Judaism and split off into its own sect 2000 years ago.

Bukhari (11:626)

- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

Hadith Bukhari

Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), is one of the six canonical hadith collections (Al-Kutub Al-Sittah) of Sunni Islam.

Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and al-Muwatta In some circles, it is considered the most authentic book after the Qur'an. The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct Sahih al-Bukhari

Muhammad orders people burnt to death for not praying.

Islam. You couldn't make it up.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024

The quicker we all realize we are all equal, the less hate and war there will be. But so long as people bent on using religion as a tool of hate are in power, they will use religion to spread more hate and fear into the world's population.

The problem is your message of peace isn't reciprocated.

Luckily, chaps like you tend to be the most vociferous opponents of militant Islam once the penny drops. It can be pretty slow at dropping though.

Perhaps this quote from the Supreme Leader of Iran may help.

“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says, kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! ...Whatever good there is, exists thanks to the sword, and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient, except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! ...Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

—Ayatollah Khomeini (1902-1989) Iran’s Supreme Leader from 1979 to 1989—the highest ranking political and religious authority of the nation.

www.religioustolerance.org...

Ayatollah Khomeini (1902-1989) Iran’s Supreme Leader from 1979 to 1989 spits on you and calls you witless.

I don't think you are witless. I just fear that you assume too much and study Islam too little.

... after reading posts here on ats last few years, i thought CIA (or mossad) is behind the starts of most of the conflicts in mid east countries... did i miss something?

reply to post by ollncasino


Shall we take the teachings of Fred Phelps to represent all of Christianity?

Maybe Torqemada?

Maybe we could quote selectively from the old testament?

The problem with cherry picking what individuals say, is that you infer those individuals speak for all.

Or in other words, if you quote extremists, you find extremism.

reply to post by GD21D

Actually, I want people to stop pushing their ideals on others. To the extent that they'll justify mass murder with those same ideas. Christianity, Islam, or any other belief that feels they have a connection with a higher power.

I would give you more stars if I could for that statement. I agree with you 100 percent. The hypocrisy in religion is so blatant, you have to be brain dead not to realize how they go against their own teachings. They're the first to judge, and they're bent on controlling their followers.

Religion and ideology is the cause of all the wars in this world.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Our media has become propaganda tool to brainwash people into supporting crimes against humanity led by US/Israel/Britain. We are witnessing how propaganda works.
Vilify certain people by lying or exaggerating their negatives. All the while CIA and Mossad did 9/11 using patsies, take a look at fall of world trade center 7, no plane hit that building.

Take a look at crimes of our leaders and ask yourself, can you trust these people to launch a war in your name.

Crimes of US and NATO
Abduction
Torture
Murder
Genetic experimentation
Mind Control
Political Subterfuge
Financial Plunder

I was in Bosnia in early 90s, CIA instructed Muslim leadership how to blow up their own citizens inside a bread market, and tape the whole thing. After that NATO had excuse to launch an attack.

There is a hidden world newspapers are not informing you about, you as a citizen are just expected to bend over, pay your taxes, and say thank you.

Originally posted by Citybig
Because we all know just how peaceful Australians are, especially when they are launching ethnic cleansing to steal a land they have no rights over.

In other news, what exactly was the point of this thread?

There's a theory going around that the ORIGINAL aboriginals that were here were forced down to Tassy by the second wave that arrived a bit later. Given, the first settlers in Tassy finished the job that the second wave of aboriginals started but your comments about ethnic cleansing are a tad more complicated than you make out. If you're one of those "poor hard done by aboriginals" that feel they have a raw deal, how about putting in a bit of effort and say, help yourself. I am sure every Aussie that has made something of themselves didn't wait around for a handout, and if any aboriginal feels that europeans shouldn't be here, I invite them to strip off all of the "modern clothes" and GIVE UP all of the modern technology they are using and go back to their own culture. They can't have it both ways. But this isn't about peaceful Aussies, it's about peaceful muslims. So here is an email that I received. Very interesting

"
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD Australians? This is certainly 'food-for-thought' .

This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. And send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why our Australian Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good Australian?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam . (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America the great Satan, Australia and the rest of the free world.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the Australian Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Australians [or good Englishmen or good Americans!]. Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country [ and yours] and our future.

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

Originally posted by DragonFire1024
What a disgrace this thread is. Religion was created to combat hate, not to spread it. Since the Crusades, the Christian church has hijacked the meaning of religion. I am sorry, but you are not going to convince me that Jesus Christ created Christianity by hating homosexuals. Islam wasn't created to blow stuff up. Anyone who takes their religion out of context in order to hate is a hypocrite. It's ok for the religious followers to break their own rules so it suits their needs and their religion, and they don't care who they hurt in the process. But if anyone else, who doesn't follow any religion, these organizations think its ok to bash them, hate on them, CONDONE violence and to force their beliefs on everyone else. I don't believe that's what religion stands for and never has.

With that said, this thread really sounds like it was created to do one thing: Bash Islam...grow up people seriously.

I haven't said anything bad about Islam, nor any other religion, but fact is fact most of todays wars are Islam motivated. Thats all I have been saying, and I'll leave it up to others to make what they want from it.

I have a theory.

Lemme try to phrase this without any bigotry or insults - I'm really trying to talking theory here, a hypothesis on religions - without saying anything in general about the members of those cultures and religions.

INTRO: The Chinese sage Lao-Tzu was thinking like... comparing them to a primal unity with what you could loosely call Natural Law. So Taoists (and some of the Greek pre-Socratic philosophers) maintained we all came from a greater harmony with higher powers, intuition and telepathy.
From this POV, the Sage thought it was a pretty bad sign if people held morals and honesty in high regard. Because that meant the opposite of morals and honestly had to exist already or at the same time - treachery, lies, and immorality. Otherwise they may not even have a WORD FOR IT....

So let's do this as a theoretical exercise, grab the first words that come to you about the stereotyped advertising or describing of any religion. (Mark my words, stereotyped, because any person belonging to these faiths can be and is frequently on a different path of spirituality, or they may just share a fleeting sympathy based on culture)

And check whether it is more common that it is precisely this that the followers frequently infringe - or else they would not have it so important.

Islam is the Religion of Peace. So the OP says. So what's the opposite of peace in many followers: war and violence. Hmmmm. There IS some truth to that - even though many people and nations Islamic I know are actually sometimes more peaceful than others.

Christianity is the Religion of Love. Hmmmmm.... Talk about hatred and discrimination in the history of Christian cultures. Although everyday Christian mystics can really exude love.

Judaism is the Religion of the Law. Or the Covenant... You go figure this one out, I can't, but perhaps lawlessness could be found in some cultural phenomena usually associated with Judaic history. Meddling subtly with the more direct aspect?

Anyway, this is a theoretical rant from a logic called "dialectic" in ancient Greece and it was part of Daoism in China. (And later Ch'an and Zen).

Shamanism is about power. So you need weakness to go with it.

Get my logic?

Buddhism has no such buzzword. At times it is not even a religion.

Originally posted by Muckster
For the simple minded and lazy this thread must be a revelation. Anyone with half a brain and a little willingness to investigate these "Islamic" conflicts will see this thread for what it is... Divisive cheery picking born out of bigotry!

If two Muslim guys get into a fight in the street regarding the price of apples, does that make it an Islamic fight?!?! Of course not! It’s a fight over apples.

Religion is the easiest thing to use an excuse for war and therefore the easiest thing to blame for war. But it is often just that... an excuse. Peel away any religious rhetoric and you will normally find that good old fashion human greed is behind it. Anyone who thinks that a world without religion would mean far less war is completely deluded and has no idea about the human psyche.

Peace

Oh really?
Most of the conflicts involving Islam such as the insurgencies are being waged by extremist Islamists who want to install sharia as law of the land.
Other conflicts such as the Syrian uprising involve "civil war" in Islam with the Sunnis fighting the Shias.

Religion is the cause of these wars...

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

The funny thing is, Islam will only be the religion of peace when the whole world is not just Islam, but one specific Islamic sect.

Actually that isn't true, even the different sects between Islam such as Sunnis and Shias regularly fight wars against each other so an Islamic world would be far from peaceful.

These threads come around like clockwork don't they?

Instead of listing what Islamic people are fighting, why not try researching into who started many of those conflicts? Because they certainly weren't all started by them.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000



Yes I have heard of "Jihad" (holy war) which is very similiar to the "crusade".

Originally posted by EvanB

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
reply to post by EvanB

 

Uhh no. While the Stolen Generation was a terrible thing and over 200 thousand Aboriginal children were taken from their families, but the "white" stolen generation I'm speaking of was pretty much the exact same practice except used against white families who were believed to be unable to provide for the children where over half a million were taken by the government. Yet this is almost completely unknown by most if not all people and its the (Aboriginal) stolen generation that gets all the attention.

edit on 6-6-2012 by CrimsonKapital because: (no reason given)

Interesting..

I was not having a crack at you to make it clear but was genuinely interested

Thanks for the information.. I will look into it.. I have a genuine love for all things Aussie with my family connections and having lived there on and off a few times so take great interest in this type of thing.. So thanks again..

Don't think I'll bother with any more of this thread the ignorance level of OP & other is just to high at the moment.
OP why didn't you mention more relevant local conflicts like East Timor, or Iran Jaya(west papua) or if it was just an attack on Islam whats going on in the philippines and indo Islands like Ambon & Arche.

I was going to rip your head of so I'm glad you apologized and showed an interest, cause the whole stolen gen is a bit of an over played card, and IMO borderline racist in the way it has been dealt with recently due to what others have already said, much worse happened to white kids with no indig background yet they get a piss weak apology & no compensation when the Indig lot get grand apologies and cash pathetic really.
White kids in care were treated disgracefully rented out as sex slaves for pedos, used as slave labour etc, imagine how these kids felt when a pedo turned up and they knew that 1 or 2 were about to be selected for hire. or the boys as young as 6-7who were rented out as farm hands & had to work 7 days a week 14 hour days while being beaten and starved continually cause they couldn't keep up with grown men.
It had nothing to do with racism just bastard people running the show who by the way OP were mainly Christian.
Now the Stolen Gen the fact everyone likes to forget or ignore here is that they were not Abo kids that were taken they were half casts those that had white fathers to black mothers so effectively the stolen gen were just as white as they were black and they would in most cases been treated much worse if they were left with the Aborigines.
That's right folks I dared to say it, a large portion of stolen Gen were better of in state care and anyone who disagrees has never seen how a tribal culture of the time treats those of mixed blood.

reply to post by PeterWiggin


Yes but that was back then, I am talking about right here, right now in todays world. How many Christians do you see chant out that their religion is "the religion of peace"? I must say I haven't heard any because they obviously don't feel like they need to prove its not.

I remember a few years ago in Australia where a group of 10 Islamists drew up a plan to kill as many soldiers at Holsworthy Army Barracks because "they saw them as a threat to Islam". Luckily the government caught them nd when they were in court being sentenced they screamed out "Islam the religion of peace, the only true religion!!".
What I'm saying is do you see Christians drawing up plans to bomb the local mosques? No because they just want to get along, they don't have this warped mentality of (my religion) vs the world.

reply to post by Blaine91555


There is no such thing as "radical" Islam. In the Quran it actually states that Islam should wage war against all non-believers and that once a land falls to Islam (conquered) it must forever remain Islamic.
This is why the Muslims hate Israel so much, not just because they are jews but because Israel occupies land that was conquered by the Muslims but originally belonged to the Christians...