Christian Double Talk on Trinity is the root of their being Dead in Christ

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Jesus commanded his disciples at the end of Matthew to go forth and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. I know you know this bc I read a reply of yours referencing it saying that your problem is when some make Jesus into the Father but I told you that we don't worship Jesus as God/Father. He is the Son.

Will you too, like Akra, presume to teach us about the ways of our Father and Christ apart from the Holy Spirit?

edit on 8-6-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)

The problem is when I go looking at this theme for who is god with Abraham and such, I find the "City of Ur" theme with "Creator gods" called Annunaki that follow the Elohim concept. One of them, Enki, is called the Father for Mankind. It turns up in places like Book of Enoch and the Sumerian tablets

So, even if you worship Jesus as a son of the father, this father is not a valid concept to be considered god in this day and age. It is this Enki theme that turns up as the Father to which Jesus is speaking.

I don't have any appreciation for the Enki being god of anything, so the Jesus speaking for that father concept is something that I am not going to buy.

Jesus appears to have learned a lot of the Mystery School teachings about Babylon, and leaped on back to the days of Abraham and Ur and got another wrong concept for god being a father derived from Enki.

Also, It does matter if you worship Jesus in any fashion, as that is a false symbol for god theme. Jesus is a prophet, but one that stopped short of the mark to correctly defining god. There were "Superiour Beings" back in those days and they came from what might be called the heavens in those days, but these days those beings would likely also be called superior, just not considered as god.


In order to form the benevolent Holy Spirit in the mind, one has to get the external truths and history right or the Holy Spirit may well be the Side for Evil.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I understand you have your own unique foundation of beliefs. Perhaps one day you'll make a thread that will teach us all about what you "do" believe and how it offers us a better hope and truer promises than our Lord Jesus and Father God. Nevertheless, I don't care to critique your beliefs at this moment. What I would care to say is simply what I said from before: without the Holy Spirit which is of and from the Father, one's teachings are useless and full of hopeless vanity.


So, I will ask you again...

Will you presume to teach us about the ways of our Father and Christ apart from His Holy Spirit in your unbelief?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

What I would care to say is simply what I said from before: without the Holy Spirit which is of and from the Father, one's teachings are useless and full of hopeless vanity.

One can not be "without" this holy spirit. It is within all life...

IF the bible did not exist... The same spirit would still be present in all life...

Will you too, like Akra, presume to teach us about the ways of our Father and Christ apart from the Holy Spirit?

As i've said... How would this be possible?

With out the spirit man is dead.... litterally.

Do you believe you have a different spirit within then I?

Do you hold yourself higher then others because you've accepted a label for your beliefs?

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I understand you have your own unique foundation of beliefs. Perhaps one day you'll make a thread that will teach us all about what you "do" believe and how it offers us a better hope and truer promises than our Lord Jesus and Father God. Nevertheless, I don't care to critique your beliefs at this moment. What I would care to say is simply what I said from before: without the Holy Spirit which is of and from the Father, one's teachings are useless and full of hopeless vanity.


So, I will ask you again...

Will you presume to teach us about the ways of our Father and Christ apart from His Holy Spirit in your unbelief?

It is clear that you have been brought up in a certain belief, one that many in the world don't share. There are many here that either seek to be some part of the churches, become Missionaries, but always want a part of the money flow from being a part of the parade. I don't happen to be one of those. I just seek the real history and not the fabricated fairy tales that didn't blend very well. I don't think one can sell the god is "Daddy", or Abba that Jesus calls god.

It is possible to teach morality without getting into the many fabrications of Christianty, which always get the Bible and Christ centered types in big trouble because they always get caught in big lies by the more highly intelligent folks that use critical thinking skills to test the stories, and also go compare all the other history of writings to get at the balance of truth for what really happened.

I. myself, would not care to burden anyone's mind with the highly superfluous Bible Stories, when it is perfectly easy to teach morals in present day methods and do it with ways that don't play I am Better Than You because I subscribe to this Bible book or I believe in the distortions of the Jesus theme of present day organized religion. Why jump on a dead horse when Revelations tells the Church doesn't know Jesus in these latter times.

The real history of religions from the times of Sumeria and Abraham's Abba god, then the history for Babylon's faked human gods, and on down the line till the real stories of the Jesus saga are told. One doesn't need spiritual anything, not even faith, as history and moral stories stand on basic truth alone.


The Bible Narratives is one of the worst works ever written to teach something so simple and basic. such that the world would be better off without the Bible;s Narratives that have totally lost the simple message of Jesus time. The world does just fine even if Jesus name is forever lost in the sands of time, as the moral message is more easily taught in much simpler ways.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

What I would care to say is simply what I said from before: without the Holy Spirit which is of and from the Father, one's teachings are useless and full of hopeless vanity.

One can not be "without" this holy spirit. It is within all life..

IF the bible did not exist... The same spirit would still be present in all life...

You made it known from whence your spirit is and is not but as for me, I will lean on Jesus which is why I say the "spirit of life" which we all have is not the same as the "Holy Spirit" which we can all receive if we but ask Jesus in faith with a true heart. Nevertheless, without the Holy Spirit there is no understanding scripture and this is why I will not cast the pearly matters of the Holy Spirit before you now. I will however continue to pray for the soil of your heart.

Best wishes, friend.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Like I said, I'm not here for a critique of your beliefs but I can tell you that the name Jesus should have died alongside the man 2000 years ago when hanged on a tree and gutted but it didn't.

Jesus is risen.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Save your prayers for someone who needs them brother...

Its been quite clear you have nothing i can use as far as wisdom from scripture is concerned

Thank you though

Interesting that you consider one who speaks only of jesus.. A swine

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Like I said, I'm not here for a critique of your beliefs but I can tell you that the name Jesus should have died alongside the man 2000 years ago when hanged on a tree and gutted but it didn't.

Jesus is risen.

Jesus, The Man, has long since passed. Only a distorted memory remains in a book designed for political purpose to feed the ego of the highly exploitable human minds.

Everyone critiques religions, it is part of the testing for truth and honesty. If a religion fails that, then it becomes pagan nonsense of a Uber mind.

TV programs, like Andy Griffith, taught more kids morality than what most kids extracted from the mixed up, fear mongering bible narratives.

Jesus died and what is left is those Dead in Jesus just as Revelations predicted.

The true memory of Jesus might get restored someday, but not by the present day church nonsense.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


In reality, if Jesus isn't risen then the disciples go back to fishing (John 21) and the name Jesus dies (Acts 5) but historically that didn't happen. The name of Jesus lives just as he does and there is not a single argument this world can present to disprove the living testimonies of the martyrs.


Jesus is risen.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Save your prayers for someone who needs them brother...

Its been quite clear you have nothing i can use as far as wisdom from scripture is concerned

Thank you though

Interesting that you consider one who speaks only of jesus.. A swine

edit on 11-6-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

What's interesting is that for a man who considers himself to speak only of Jesus, you sure do refuse him much and often which is why I find it kind of humorously honoring that you find no use for me just like when you found no use for Jesus while I was quoting him on the importance of his death, about belief in him, about salvation, about grace, about the holy spirit, about the trinity, about the rapture, about the Father, and just about everything else Jesus said.

I don't know what more you want from me.

It all boils down to what is Daddy for Jesus. Abba/Daddy goes back to the deal with Abraham with the creator god, daddy, which makes the whole Jesus theme rather silly as that intelligent force was nothing more than another life form with desire for gold and power.

So, there goes your whole belief system.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

In reality, if Jesus isn't risen then the disciples go back to fishing (John 21) and the name Jesus dies (Acts 5) but historically that didn't happen. The name of Jesus lives just as he does and there is not a single argument this world can present to disprove the living testimonies of the martyrs.


Jesus is risen.

Sorrry, he was plain old mortal and long gone physically. And even his story is highly corrupted by those that like money and know that selling an ages old great mystery creates lots of money for them.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

In reality, if Jesus isn't risen then the disciples go back to fishing (John 21) and the name Jesus dies (Acts 5) but historically that didn't happen. The name of Jesus lives just as he does and there is not a single argument this world can present to disprove the living testimonies of the martyrs.


Jesus is risen.

Sorrry, he was plain old mortal and long gone physically. And even his story is highly corrupted by those that like money and know that selling an ages old great mystery creates lots of money for them.

This isn't about wolfs in sheep's clothing or their lust for money. This is about actual history which according to you is necessary in order to form the benevolent Holy Spirit in the mind... a correct view should lead to truth, right?

Address the historical faith of the martyrs who saw with their eyes, touched with their hands, heard with their ears, and believed in their hearts on the name of Jesus the Christ of God.

Kinda hard to take them very seriously as being wise and not delusional, when Jesus' Big Daddy was the Clan of Anu.

They all were pretty much knocked off for trying to invent god from strange beings that were advanced, but not gods in the real sense of things.

Looks a lot like pagan nonsense with you trying to claim there was more.

No doubt Jesus survived the big tree nails, got nursed back to health using Myrrh. And then moved far far away from all the goof balls to the hills of Southern France.


I use Myrrh myself and it does work some near miracles on various health problems, but it still is just one of those special things in nature. Jesus' Daddy folks really liked it, as did all the big medicine types of the old days. It likely was the key for saving Jesus life and rapid recovery.

But, since you don't even know about that. You come up short of knowledge.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Kinda hard to take them very seriously as being wise and not delusional, when Jesus' Big Daddy was the Clan of Anu.

They all were pretty much knocked off for trying to invent god from strange beings that were advanced, but not gods in the real sense of things.

Looks a lot like pagan nonsense with you trying to claim there was more.

No doubt Jesus survived the big tree nails, got nursed back to health using Myrrh. And then moved far far away from all the goof balls to the hills of Southern France.


I use Myrrh myself and it does work some near miracles on various health problems, but it still is just one of those special things in nature. Jesus' Daddy folks really liked it, as did all the big medicine types of the old days. It likely was the key for saving Jesus life and rapid recovery.

But, since you don't even know about that. You come up short of knowledge.

edit on 14-6-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Special Natural Medicines

Regardless of our personal feelings and extra-biblical sources, the matter at hand is this that live men just do not die for dead fools and free people do not willfully burn, hang on crosses, or get fed to starved animals for the name of a dead fool. Your deflections, and projections, and excuses are pathetic. Seriously, the name is alive because Jesus is alive and risen; the people saw him, heard him, and touched him.

This is real, magnus.

MagnumOpus, can you give me your interpretation of Zechariah 12, 13 & 14?

Specifically....

Zechariah 12:10-11

10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Seriously, the name is alive because Jesus is alive and risen; the people saw him, heard him, and touched him.

This is real, magnus.

Well, if it is real. Go get Jesus and lets put him on TV, or if you don't want to do that have him come by the house and shake my hand.

I have littel doubt that Jesus was up and waking around a few days after his ordeal, and even showing off the holes of piercings of his body.

Still works that he just survived, didn't die, and the wonders of Myrrh were still a gift for god that was big medicine for the times.

Anytime you all want to have Jesus come out of the closet you let the rest of us know and we'll come and shake his hand.


Usually, when I tell a Christian type to do this they hold out their own hand and tell Jesus lives within me, which gets do to his memory lives on. But, can't find the guy with holes in his hands and speaking Aramaic.


U got that guy? Because you have to have him to say it is real and be able to show others.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

I have littel doubt that Jesus was up and waking around a few days after his ordeal, and even showing off the holes of piercings of his body.

Jesus did walk around after His death, but He did so while in His new heavenly body.

Mark 16:12

12) After that he appeared in ANOTHER FORM unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

Luke 24:31

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Luke 24:50-51

50) And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51) And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

John 20:26

26) And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Here are other appearances listed in the Bible:

www.abideinchrist.com...

Originally posted by Deetermined
MagnumOpus, can you give me your interpretation of Zechariah 12, 13 & 14?

Specifically....

Zechariah 12:10-11

10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zechariah is OT and seems to be about Josiah, but there is confusion on that issue.

Hadad-Rimmon is a solar pagan god concept for Phonecia - Syria. Megiddon is up near Mt. Carmel, the vinyards of god.

www.guidedbiblestudies.com...

Valley of Megiddon, place of Armageddon, and ancient ancient city of Canaan that was assigned to the tribe of Manasseh and located on the southern rim of the plains of Esdraelon about six miles from Mount Carmel.

www.orthodoxchristianity.net...

Hadad-Rimmon as a Prefigurement of Christ?

The 5th century writer Ambrosius Theodosius Macrobius described the gold statue of Hadad-rimmon, who he described as a sun-god, and the chief Syrian deity. (Saturnalia vol 1, 23) Hadad was a Phoenician deity, and Rimmon the matching Syrian deity.

-------

Yet Zechariah 12:11 says that the lamentations over one whom they pierced who caused them to look to God would be like the lamentations of Haddad-rimmon. It says that the lamentations -by Houses that include David's- over the pierced one would happen at a time of grace and supplication, when David's House would be as an angel. This lamenting over one who was pierced is not like abominable crying over a pagan deity.

So, it somewhat plays off those pierced, and speaks to the false god issues lamentation are not as valid as persons like Josiah. It also has some metaphorical application for the Jesus Piercing, but Jesus didn't die from his piercing.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I have littel doubt that Jesus was up and waking around a few days after his ordeal, and even showing off the holes of piercings of his body.

Jesus did walk around after His death, but He did so while in His new heavenly body.

Mark 16:12

12) After that he appeared in ANOTHER FORM unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

Luke 24:31

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Luke 24:50-51

50) And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51) And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

John 20:26

26) And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Here are other appearances listed in the Bible:

www.abideinchrist.com...

Until you have Jesus come here in this present day and age and show a whole lot of scientist this same goings on, it is the metaphorical writings of those trying to make Jesus into god, when he was not.

Jesus got nailed to a tree for suggesting he was god, and every one that continued to suggest that got like treatment.

Jesus isn't god in any way shape or form.