Christian Double Talk on Trinity is the root of their being Dead in Christ

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Instead of my usual detailed reply im just going to sum up what we've been over in the past few pages... Im not exactly sure what your issue is... you're either blinded by your religion and what you've been taught or by your ego... either way your replies are starting to bore me...

Apparently you believe OT God is justified in killing woman and children... simply because he created them, so he also has the right to destroy them... This is the same excuse a man has for beating his child.

The words "women Ravished" apparently means "women respected" to you...

I've seen nothing but the exact thing you accuse me of... baseless arguements stemming from your own personal beliefs.... and complete disgard for the verses i've quoted in context of the rest of the chapters.

All i see is accusations and finger wagging here...

And as for your "professional opinion" on bibical issues (as you've said, you've read the bible)

Said professional opinion and credibility went out the window with the introduction of a quote from Jesus... in the book of Romans

Lots of people have read the bible... That does not mean you understand it... and you've clearly shown you don't considering the replies to myself and others in this thread.

Heres another quote from Jesus.... just for you!

Exit light, enter night, take my hand, off to never neverland...

I probably should have just given up back when i realized exactly who im dealing with here, it was amusing for a while but its just annoying now. You repeat yourself over and over with nothing to back what little arguement you actually have aside from your personal beliefs.

And by the way, any one who actually knows what i post on these forums... also knows i have little to no use for MOST of the bible... but that doesn't mean i disgard what i read... I know what is of God and what is not within the bible, and most of the OT is not from God.


So i'll just leave you to your beliefs, however misguided said beliefs might be...

Oh right... And you believe we are "justified" by our faith...

Lets see what Jesus had to say about that

Mat 12
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Your doctrine of "grace" is not taught by Jesus... that is pure Paulian thought...

Congrats... You're officially a follower of Paul..

Fortunatly i already knew that

reply to post by Akragon

The words "women Ravished" apparently means "women respected" to you...

The "Christian"/Zionist cult has to have the belief that the Old Testament is all true, and the word of God, and all having to be fulfilled, in order to support the modern so-called "state", illegally occupying Palestine and calling itself Israel.
So they have to have the OT portrayal of God as being totally accurate, in order for people to think that it can not somehow be imagined to be any different than the NT God.
I think that the only sane approach is to see the OT as having a distorted view of God, one that was made to fit the history of tribal warfare in the distant past. A good book to read for a background in how this happened is, Early Israelites: Two Peoples, One History: Rediscovery of the Origins of Biblical Israel, by Igor P. Lipovsky.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I actually agree with you, though i tend to stay out of the arguements involving "israel" and all the goings on over there... Not really my business.

I find it rather amusing that "Christians" can read what Jesus said about God... The merciful and loving God who forgives his children for their transgressions as long as we forgive others... Then have the audacity to associate the God(s) of the OT with the same God as the one Jesus spoke of...

There is no similarities between the two Gods... Further more they even believe that the true God is subject to human emotions such as Jealousy, envy and hate!

These are clearly human issues... and not something an "all powerful" creator would have as far as emotions are concerned.

IF we all return to the "source" or even God... It doesn't matter what you do in this life... we will all have to answer for our deeds eventually... So if one decides to live an immoral life... God lets them do exactly that... simply because one day they will have deal with their actions one way or the other, as the verses i posted clearly state...

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

*sigh*

I think i might dig through the book of Romans and see if i can find more Jesus quotes...

reply to post by Akragon

I think i might dig through the book of Romans and see if i can find more Jesus quotes...

Look in chapters 12 and 13.
This is according to:
Jesus according to Paul (Understanding Jesus Today), Victor Paul Furnish
Paul says things in Romans that can be directly connected to Jesus sayings but does not quote him directly.

Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse.

Romans 13:7
Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

I think the only place Paul quotes Jesus directly is in 1 Corinthians.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
There was something...else pretending to be him and this is what he was trying to tell the jews during his time here, they were too blind to hear it or see him for who he is.

Yes, I agree, there does appear to be this split whereby, some of the Jews are following something else, that is not of God, or in the character of Jesus.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This is what he is saying in Jeremiah 7, the religious jews were following after their own desires and they turned the first Church into a religion of men and then the Catholics turned and followed the same path to the same Queen of Heaven and they, like the jews before them are blind to it and the jews have begun to do those same burnt offerings and sacrifices they did in ancient days passed and you know what follows after that if yoou read this:

I think the reason why there are so many contradictions in the OT, is because of this split, and this split occurs IMO because some of the Jews are following Satan, and the others, are really following, the one true God.

And regarding sacrifices of animals, and burnt offerings, God speaks against this, in many verses throughout the OT…and yet, one element/faction of the Jews, continues to go against what God has said on the issue.


Some key verses…

Psalm 40:6
6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but my ears you have pierced;
burnt offerings and sin offerings
you did not require.

And…

Isaiah 1:11-12
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?

There are many more verses like the ones above, and of course, Jesus quotes these same 2 prophets in the 4 gospels, so if Jesus has confidence in them, then so do I.


The problem I see with many Christian apologists, is that they don’t seem to be aware of this split, and just think that everything that is written by all the OT prophets, is always coming from God, instead of trying to discern it more carefully.


And one of the really frustrating things IMO, is that there are many people out there, who have become/remain atheists, because they can’t reconcile with a God that has committed atrocities in the OT, and unfortunately, this in turn makes them turn away, from either remaining, or coming to believe in Jesus. Which really makes me sick…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


Well alot of christians do not bother to read the OT because they think it is for the jews. I've only been a christian for a year but i found out there was a pretender when i went searching for Jesus in the OT, not only did i find him but i found this pretender hiding in there too.

Well the only conclusion i can come away with is that God did not want sacrifices and burnt offerings, some disloyal jews/israelites were shoving this onto him and telling the people it's what he wanted. In Jeremiah 7 he even said there were prophets prophecying by Ba'al.

Now you know who has control of modern Israel, the jews who say they are jews but are not, as Jesus said. Not only that but you have 2 factions, Ashkenazi and Sephardim. Look at the Israel national flag at the Seal of Solomon that has also been known as the Talisman of Saturn. Behold, the jews who say they are jews but are not.

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon

Apparently you believe OT God is justified in killing woman and children... simply because he created them, so he also has the right to destroy them... This is the same excuse a man has for beating his child.

The words "women Ravished" apparently means "women respected" to you...

Well said…

There’s a word in the OT for people like you, and it’s the word…

“Righteous”…

Originally posted by Akragon
…we will all have to answer for our deeds eventually... So if one decides to live an immoral life... God lets them do exactly that... simply because one day they will have deal with their actions one way or the other, as the verses i posted clearly state...

This is what I can’t understand about Christian apologists. I mean, if God intervenes, then how much more would he intervene, to stop evil from taking place? (Rhetorical question)

It’s like they never stop to think, why isn’t God stopping and intervening, in all manner of other evils sins, throughout the OT. But when it comes to God killing people, or commanding it, it’s suddenly excused away, as being a time when God decided to intervene, and exercise his own righteousness…I just don’t buy it.

And like you said above, God leaves people with their own freewill and only judges them at the end of their life. And in fact, this is in accordance with Gods own words, in the bible!


- JC

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well alot of christians do not bother to read the OT because they think it is for the jews. I've only been a christian for a year but i found out there was a pretender when i went searching for Jesus in the OT, not only did i find him but i found this pretender hiding in there too.

Well the only conclusion i can come away with is that God did not want sacrifices and burnt offerings, some disloyal jews/israelites were shoving this onto him and telling the people it's what he wanted. In Jeremiah 7 he even said there were prophets prophecying by Ba'al.

If I could give you a thousand stars for that post, I would. I just wish more people could see the truth. I’ve only been a believer in Jesus for 2 years, and I’ve come to realize the exact same thing.

This whole sacrificing element, just seems very satanic in my opinion. And most of it sounds a lot like the stuff you hear going on at those secret rituals.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

This whole sacrificing element, just seems very satanic in my opinion. And most of it sounds a lot like the stuff you hear going on at those secret rituals.

I can tell you where the sacrifices and burnt offerings came from. God tells you :

Jeremiah 7: 24-26

24 Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt until this day, I have even sent to you all My servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them. 26 Yet they did not obey Me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck. They did worse than their fathers.

They went backward. Where did they go back to you might ask? Where did Abraham come from? They went backwards to Babylon and Egypt both. In the Mystery Babylon religion (called the "sacred mysteries", just like the clergy in the R.C.C. used to call the scriptures and some still do) the goddess Ishtar (pronounced Easter) who has many other names taught how to sacrifice animals and people to send them to the Babylonian equivalent of "hell" or sheol in the sacrificer's place. Ishtar originates from Semiramis so in reality it was the real person if Semiriamis who was Nimrod (ninus of Ninevah) mother/wife. The Golden Calf the apostate Israelites had Aaron craft is the symbol/idol of this "queen of heaven" with the exhaustive list of names one of which is Asherah/Ashtoreth/Astarte whom some of those said apostate jews claimed was God's wife or the Ruach ha Kodesh (Holy Spirit).

reply to post by Joecroft


BTW, i'd get rid of that avatar you're using it has the talisman of Saturn/Seal of Solomon hiding in it. It's a hexagon and a hexagon has a hexagram hiding in it.

Look:



Connect the dots, see what it makes?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Joecroft

 

BTW, i'd get rid of that avatar you're using it has the talisman of Saturn/Seal of Solomon hiding in it. It's a hexagon and a hexagon has a hexagram hiding in it.

Look:

Connect the dots, see what it makes?

edit on 26-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Under the wings in my old avatar, was the flower of life symbol. Which you can actually derive a lot of shapes out of…but I’ve decided to change my avatar anyway, to something more appropriate…


- JC

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Instead of my usual detailed reply im just going to sum up what we've been over in the past few pages... Im not exactly sure what your issue is... you're either blinded by your religion and what you've been taught or by your ego... either way your replies are starting to bore me...

Judge yourself

& Ditto

Apparently you believe OT God is justified in killing woman and children... simply because he created them, so he also has the right to destroy them... This is the same excuse a man has for beating his child.

I believe God has the right because He created "Us" and I also believe in His righteous due to the fact that what life He determines to return to Him will and the loss of this fleshly presence is no reason to be so emotionally distraught that we turn away from our Father.

The words "women Ravished" apparently means "women respected" to you...

Apparently you either have no skill in critical analysis or you have a hard time with context that doesn't support your biases and like you say, you disregard info that you can't use, right?

I presented my argument with full context of scripture in regards to the above. You're only fooling yourself now.

I've seen nothing but the exact thing you accuse me of... baseless arguements stemming from your own personal beliefs.... and complete disgard for the verses i've quoted in context of the rest of the chapters.

whatever

Point is, there is no commandment by God for Rape, or Murder (by definition), or salvation by good works.

Point is, there is much scripture in regards to faith, believing, grace, and the 3 who bear witness yet are they one

Accept it or don't, but I'm not the one upset with a God I don't believe in so perhaps this can be to you the evidence you need to reevaluate your relationship with the One, True, and living God and let go of relativism.

All i see is accusations and finger wagging here...

Then take a deep breath and stop falsely accusing our Father either that or provide a sound argument with valid premises and working definitions for major terms like "murder."

And as for your "professional opinion" on bibical issues (as you've said, you've read the bible)

Said professional opinion and credibility went out the window with the introduction of a quote from Jesus... in the book of Romans

Does appealing to the laughter of the masses through willful disregard of the understanding imparted unto you make you feel better about what is really going on in your heart and spirit?

My professional opinion was according to my bachelor's of science in psychology in loo of your illegitimate allegations and inordinate cherry-picking.

As far as Jesus in Romans is concerned, and I reiterate: Luke 10:16, "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."
*I include Paul in this dispensation by Jesus in the good faith of Jesus call to Saul and of the disciples acceptance of Paul.

*The understanding I was trying to impart was the danger in denying Paul for no validly portrayed reason as one does. When we do this we effectively fulfill Luke 10:16 and when we deny Jesus, we deny the only avenue whereby we are able to receive the Holy Spirit which is the mark.

Lots of people have read the bible... That does not mean you understand it... and you've clearly shown you don't considering the replies to myself and others in this thread.

Suit yourself Mr. I like to cherry-pick and disregard scripture that isn't useful to me.

Heres another quote from Jesus.... just for you!

Exit light, enter night, take my hand, off to never neverland...

taking jabs at our Hope in Jesus doesn't actually bother us. You know that right?

I would like to hear about your hope if you ever think you want to share.

I probably should have just given up back when i realized exactly who im dealing with here, it was amusing for a while but its just annoying now. You repeat yourself over and over with nothing to back what little arguement you actually have aside from your personal beliefs.

This need not be an issue. Anyone following us knows exactly how true you are in judging yourself.



...continued

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

And by the way, any one who actually knows what i post on these forums... also knows i have little to no use for MOST of the bible... but that doesn't mean i disgard what i read... I know what is of God and what is not within the bible, and most of the OT is not from God.

For the sake of salvation by good works you ignore Jesus. Anyone who knows our Father, and knows Christ, knows that you're either bald faced lying or truly have no clue of what you're even talking about.

So i'll just leave you to your beliefs, however misguided said beliefs might be...

Oh right... And you believe we are "justified" by our faith...

Lets see what Jesus had to say about that

Mat 12
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Your doctrine of "grace" is not taught by Jesus... that is pure Paulian thought...

Congrats... You're officially a follower of Paul..

Fortunatly i already knew that

edit on 26-5-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Speaking of quoting scripture out of context:

Matthew 12 :24-29
The Holy Spirit is being blasphemed by the pharisees.

Matthew 12: 30
He that is not with me is against me.

Matthew 12:31-32
All manner of sin shall be forgiven but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Matthew 12:33
Make the tree good or make it evil; a tree is known by its fruit (ie faith shown by works)

Matthew 12:34-35
Jesus begins judging the Pharisees for their words.

Matthew 12:36
Jesus tells the Pharisees (and those they spiritually represent) that they shall be judged by their words at judgment.

Where else do we see this in scripture?
In John's revelation after the millennial reign when the books of works are opened at Judgment.

Again, this judgment is for those represented spiritually by the pharisees, not the body of Christ. There is therefore no condemnation for those who be in Christ Jesus. For grace would not be grace, belief not belief, faith not faith, hope not hope, and Love not Love if the gift of God were at the behest of the work of our own hands. Christ died not in vain, and brings his gift with him when he returns. You do well to remember this.

Peace for your spirit, brother.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

I believe God has the right because He created "Us" and I also believe in His righteous due to the fact that what life He determines to return to Him will and the loss of this fleshly presence is no reason to be so emotionally distraught that we turn away from our Father.

Gibberish...

What are you talking about? This arguement has nothing to do with the loss of this fleshy presence... as you put it... This has to do with one thing... what YOU believe is the Father's work... as opposed to what i know is the Fathers work...

Apparently you either have no skill in critical analysis or you have a hard time with context that doesn't support your biases

You seem to be a horible judge of character for a someone who holds a degree in psychology...

and like you say, you disregard info that you can't use, right?

Right...

Info like this... From YOUR God... Not mine...

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. 2 Samuel 6:3-7

I presented my argument with full context of scripture in regards to the above. You're only fooling yourself now

You presented nothing but accusations towards me... As you are still doing...

Point is, there is no commandment by God for Rape, or Murder (by definition)

Indeed... If you read around the commandments of the OT God...

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Or a witch? I know some wiccans on this forum... Perhaps you might present your case to them?

or salvation by good works

Ye know not what ye speak my friend...

Heres a STORY for you... i hope you understand it...

Point is, there is much scripture in regards to faith, believing, grace, and the 3 who bear witness yet are they one

God is not Three in one...

And... you need to read Paul to find "grace"... I'd rather not... I'll stick with Gods son thanks...

Accept it or don't, but I'm not the one upset with a God I don't believe in so perhaps this can be to you the evidence you need to reevaluate your relationship with the One, True, and living God and let go of relativism.

This is exactly what i meant by Ego... Do you honestly believe anything you've said could shake ones belief?

Again you have no arguements just accusations... Let me know when you get tired of beating that dead horse...

And...

relativism:
A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them.

Are you hearing yourself?

You're argueing against.... yourself!!!

My relationship with "the one true God" is rock solid my friend... You need to let go of the ego...

Then take a deep breath and stop falsely accusing our Father either that or provide a sound argument with valid premises and working definitions for major terms like "murder."

You're the only one accusing anyone of anything here bro... and if you don't know what murder is there is no way in hell you hold a degree in anything...

Does appealing to the laughter of the masses through willful disregard of the understanding imparted unto you make you feel better about what is really going on in your heart and spirit?

And of course you would know what is going on in my heart and spirit right?

Again lose the ego brother... You've shown nothing but lack of understanding... Thankfully i know better...

My professional opinion was according to my bachelor's of science in psychology in loo of your illegitimate allegations and inordinate cherry-picking.

Again... Let me know when you're done beating that horse... it died 5 pages ago...

As far as Jesus in Romans is concerned, and I reiterate: Luke 10:16

You can't reiterate with a passage from luke... You said Jesus spoke in Romans... i know mistakes hurt that Gigantic Ego of yours Mr. Psycholgist... but let it go... seriously

I include Paul in this dispensation by Jesus in the good faith of Jesus call to Saul and of the disciples acceptance of Paul.

Now you're including words Jesus didn't say?

Paul never met Jesus my friend... He was "inspired" by his spirit... He was a false appostle who highjacked the church and made it his own.

The understanding I was trying to impart was the danger in denying Paul for no validly portrayed reason as one does. When we do this we effectively fulfill Luke 10:16 and when we deny Jesus, we deny the only avenue whereby we are able to receive the Holy Spirit which is the mark.

So now whos the cherry picker?

Suit yourself Mr. I like to cherry-pick and disregard scripture that isn't useful to me.

And over and over...

Seriously man... At least i know when im cherry picking... and admit to it immediatly... Clearly you don't...

taking jabs at our Hope in Jesus doesn't actually bother us. You know that right?

Us who? Do you see anyone on your side here?

I didn't take a jab at Jesus... are you kidding me?

The point was... IF you believe he spoke in romans... Why not just say Jesus wrote the whole bible...

I would like to hear about your hope if you ever think you want to share.

Love to actually...

My hope is that Christians all over the world would read the words of the man they supposedly worship... Instead of listening to people preach the bible..

This need not be an issue. Anyone following us knows exactly how true you are in judging yourself.

Riiiight...

For the sake of salvation by good works you ignore Jesus. Anyone who knows our Father, and knows Christ, knows that you're either bald faced lying or truly have no clue of what you're even talking about.

Ouch...

I don't know your Father... I think we've been over this a few times...

But im judging myself.... right?

Again, this judgment is for those represented spiritually by the pharisees, not the body of Christ. There is therefore no condemnation for those who be in Christ Jesus.

Talk is cheap my friend... This mentality is the major issue with Christianity...

"Anyone who believes in Jesus is "saved" regardless of his actions or lack there of" ... :shk:

Christ died not in vain, and brings his gift with him when he returns. You do well to remember this.

And you'd do well to remember the Parable of the Wicked servant...

I'll get through to you yet...

It appears those here are still quite dead on issues for Jesus. Most know the original Jewish came from Abraham, who came from Ur.

Abraham had a special look and blood type. As did King David. As did Jesus.

The Essene were the Guardians for the Tomb of David for a reason linked to the area of Shinar and the Shining Ones.

www.answerbag.com...

Benjamites are a tribe of Israel. Overall, Israel was a very diverse people. Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees "beyond the [Euphrates] River" (Joshua 24:3), which excludes Ur of southern Mesopotamia since it was on the west side of the River. The northern Ur was not far east of Haran in northern Mesopotamia, and its inhabitants were fair-skinned. Rebekah was also from there, as were Leah and Rachel and their handmaids. Their father's name Laban means "white." Overall, ancient Israel was fair-skinned, but intermarriage with the Canaanite population caused a darker diversity among the tribes. In Egypt, Israelite slaves were depicted as blond, red, brown, and black hair; brown eyes and blue eyes. Israel was diverse.
King David had red hair and blue or green eyes (ruddy = admoni in Hebrew = redhead or even blond) (I Samuel 16:12). Solomon had black hair and blue eyes (Song of Songs 5:11-12). Judah typically was darker than the other tribes, as Perez and Zerah were sons of Tamar a Canaanitess (Genesis 38).
Over time, Israel in exile has moved around quite a bit, being in hot climates and cold ones. So their skin is lighter in the cold ones and relatively tan in the hot ones. In Jesus' time, Israel seems to have been a rather warm climate, so you could expect the Benjamites who settled north of Jerusalem (some argue they were the Galileans) to have been tan but still ruddy. In more ancient times (pre-exile), the climate was much more temperate and green, so their skin would be fairer.
All throughout, though, their hair was usually light-colored, as were their eyes.

Most that are not dead in Christ know this litte detail. As well as they know the early Pharos had the same hair and eye colors and came from this same area of Ur.

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

I believe our Father has the right to judge and I believe He does so in righteousness.

I believe in scripture, I believe in grace, and I believe our Father is one and the same from Genesis to Revelation.

Praise be to our just and righteous God for staying His wrath and offering to us His perfect gift of grace in the name of His only son, Jesus the Christ.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

quote] This arguement has nothing to do with the loss of this fleshy presence... as you put it... This has to do with one thing... what YOU believe is the Father's work... as opposed to what i know is the Fathers work...

Any boohoo-ing about "Our Father's work as a murderer" certainly entails inordinate care for loss of this fleshly presence otherwise, why not concede the Father right and authority over that which belongs to Him?

Why be so upset?

Apparently you either have no skill in critical analysis or you have a hard time with context that doesn't support your biases

You seem to be a horible judge of character for a someone who holds a degree in psychology...

Judgment necessitates condemnation and I have done no such thing. My discernment about your character however is based on letting you judge yourself by your own words so see ye to it.

and like you say, you disregard info that you can't use, right?

Right...

Info like this... From YOUR God... Not mine...

Who is your god again and from where do you have knowledge of him? Whereby does your god exercise authority?

Please don't deflect, I really would like to hear your answer.

I presented my argument with full context of scripture in regards to the above. You're only fooling yourself now

You presented nothing but accusations towards me... As you are still doing...

Exactly what accusations have I made against you that you have not already judged so by your own words?

Point is, there is no commandment by God for Rape, or Murder (by definition)

Indeed... If you read around the commandments of the OT God...

I believe it is more than self-evident whose understanding came about by "reading around" scripture.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Or a witch? I know some wiccans on this forum... Perhaps you might present your case to them?

Truly spoken like someone who doesn't understand the times or accept grace.

I don't care to be a judge or live under the law and that according to scripture. Thankfully, Jesus finished the work of the law on the cross and through His Holy Spirit I, at this very moment, would love nothing more than to extend the grace and mercy of our heavenly Father which has so freely been given to me.

And that's the way it is.

or salvation by good works

Ye know not what ye speak my friend...

Heres a STORY for you... i hope you understand it...

v 37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?"

We see here that these weren't aware of having done the works. We see that their focus was not on works. So what do we concluded?

Is salvation and righteousness according to works that we do not know or is salvation and righteousness according to the Work of Faith that comes out of the answer of a good conscience toward the Lord?

Point is, there is much scripture in regards to faith, believing, grace, and the 3 who bear witness yet are they one

God is not Three in one...

And... you need to read Paul to find "grace"... I'd rather not... I'll stick with Gods son thanks...

At his word, Jesus teaches salvation through belief in him and not according to the works of our hands. Our works are a product of our faith, not the other way around.

Accept it or don't, but I'm not the one upset with a God I don't believe in so perhaps this can be to you the evidence you need to reevaluate your relationship with the One, True, and living God and let go of relativism.

This is exactly what i meant by Ego... Do you honestly believe anything you've said could shake ones belief?

From your very words I honestly believe you are a relativist. I honestly believe you're angry with our Father, and I honestly believe you don't trust in Jesus for salvation.

I honestly believe I'm just a seed sower, and I honestly believe God gives the rain, the shine, and the increase.

Nevertheless, this isn't about my ego. All I have to gain from this exchange is a brother in Christ.

reply to post by Akragon

relativism:
A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them.

Cherry-picking, personal private interpretation apart from context, disregard from scripture found to be useless, baseless allegation of murder and rape, denial of faith hope love and grace, denial of Jesus and the Father, faith in works, determining the who what when where how and why of God according to personal self-interests and emotionality.......

Does any of this sound familiar?

Our God is either God, independent of us, or our god is the god of our relative desires and thus truly no god at all.

I find peace in Jesus and our Father. Tell us about your god again and your rock solid relationship.

Then take a deep breath and stop falsely accusing our Father either that or provide a sound argument with valid premises and working definitions for major terms like "murder."

You're the only one accusing anyone of anything here bro... and if you don't know what murder is there is no way in hell you hold a degree in anything...

I relayed my understanding of what "murder" is to you and you refused it. You've also yet to define it in a way that supports your thesis of "God commands murder." Do so or stop with the falsely allegations.

What more do you want from me ? good grief.

Does appealing to the laughter of the masses through willful disregard of the understanding imparted unto you make you feel better about what is really going on in your heart and spirit?

And of course you would know what is going on in my heart and spirit right?

I have an idea but I wanted to ask first. I'd hoped you wouldn't deflect and go into defense mode but I see that that is increasingly and often to where you turn. It's hard to have an honest conversation like that.

Why not just answer the question?

My professional opinion was according to my bachelor's of science in psychology in loo of your illegitimate allegations and inordinate cherry-picking.

Again... Let me know when you're done beating that horse... it died 5 pages ago...

Just as soon as you stop riding her.

As far as Jesus in Romans is concerned, and I reiterate: Luke 10:16

You can't reiterate with a passage from luke... You said Jesus spoke in Romans... i know mistakes hurt that Gigantic Ego of yours Mr. Psycholgist... but let it go... seriously

But I did reiterate with a passage from Luke and you deny exactly what I'm trying to tell you because your gigantic ego won't let you accept our Father or His grace. There was a reason I said what I said and a reason why I said Jesus spoke in Romans. It was no mistake. My mistake was believing that you were a man who desires understanding wherever it may be found. My bad.

I had really expected more from you akra.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


I'll get to your my reply when i come home from work... if im not too tired.

I don't really understand why you believe im upset, or even mad at anything... i suppose words can be misunderstood when theres no real person present...

Though i did want to leave you something to think about before i go...

You would like to hear the words of my God... Heres my favorite example...

Directly from his son....

Notice the difference between my Gods mentality... and the Nutball God you believe in?

They are NOT one and the same.... dispite what you might believe

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again

reply to post by Akragon


Do you believe Jesus died in vain?