Christian Double Talk on Trinity is the root of their being Dead in Christ

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by Akragon

 

Do you believe Jesus died in vain?

He didn't just die... he was executed.

And yes it was unnecessary... His own people wouldn't defend him... and even denied him.

Why do you christians focus so much on his death, when his life was the important part.

Let me ask you a question...

Do you think he lived in vain?

Was his death more important then his life?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by Akragon

 

Do you believe Jesus died in vain?

And yes it was unnecessary...

Do you remember what Jesus said to Peter when he denied the necessary-ness of his death in ch16 of Matthew?

Do you remember Jesus praying to the Father starting in verse 27 of John 12?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Of course.... proof positive that he didn't want to die...

He only accepted his fathers will...

Welllll. He didn't die at that time, he just survived thanks to Joseph's connections and tons of Myrrh.

Yup, survived the tree. Not Died and Resurrected for the fanstasy tale.


He did die much later of plain old natural causes and way away from the Crazy land of Jerusalem.


You are dead in Christ.

Jesus, The Man, was not god. Never was, never will be. Except in the minds of the ignrant that won't present the simple truth.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Of course.... proof positive that he didn't want to die...

He only accepted his fathers will...

Easy, remember this is about how necessary our savior's sacrifice was and is.

In light of the verses presented, do you yet find the cross and our saviors sacrifice to still be unnecessary?

Originally posted by MagnumOpus


Most know of the Babylon Trinity story where Nimrod Married his Mother, Semiramis, and liked to play god over building a tower to get close to heaven in the skies. Nimrod became so corrupt at playing god that he was killed and cut into little pieces and scattered, and was represented as going to the Sun in death. His wife/mother could find all his pieces but not the procreating bit, so she makes up a story that the Sun (Nimrod) fertilized her (Semiramis) to produce the Son (Tammus). This is the strange Pagan Sun worship Trinity theme of Father becomes the Son via the Holy Spirit of the Sun. This is the heart of Sun Worship belief, and a belief for gods that Egypt Cloned. Moses tossed out the Egyptian Concepts of these pagan gods in favor of one based on god being Nature's Ways.

The problems with Christian Double Talk begins as they plug Jesus into much of these old pagan Sun Worship belief stories. Jesus has a story of Virgin Birth, but it was really more one for an immaculate conception that was planned birth to have a savior come address a better way for god and heaven. Mary is cast into a role, like Semiramis, where she is fertilized by god. The real story is that Mary was never taught the Pagan Sun god worship was valid and thus was pure and pious of religious belief and she was chosen for Jesus Mother by the Essene's methods of piety, and in this way translated as Virgin. Mary and Joseph conceived Jesus in the normal fashion, but they had great plans for their son to became a Messiah to change how the issues of god were presented to the world. It was a great plan and one frought with resistance and much ignorance in the world.

Many of the concepts for god existed in the minds of men as thoughts and ideas, or the spiritual world of beliefs. Jesus teaching for "The Way" was about moving the concepts of the Sprit of god in the mind into that of building heaven on Earth by the clear explanations of how the spiritual concepts of the mind came into understanding. This meant that Jesus Way would be to teach the orgins of god from the natural order of the planet and in doing this greater understanding make heaven upon the Earth where god become reality as nature.

Jesus would show god as a father of all humans and one that serves the childrens needs and is loving toward them, if one understands the ways of nature. Nature provided great medicines like Myrrh, provided great nutrition via bread and wine, and they gave thanks to nature, as god, for these things. There was a logical way to transition god of the Spirit world of the mind into god and heaven on Earth, and it was based in explaining the simple truths and moving from heaven in the skies or spirit world into reality and Earth.

The Christian's Double-Talk attempts to tell that Mary was like Semiramis and got pregnant in thin air, when the real story was one of planned pregnancy from two pious parents with designs for the child to become a Messiah. There is a non-pagan version of Trinity for Jesus with the Concepts of Father (god), the Son (Jesus--born of the truth of god), and the Holy Spirit (the goals for taking Spiritual into reality on Earth). The real Jesus associated Trinity explains why the Babylon Trinity is false and pagan, and explains the roots of god lie in the explanations of nature's ways.

The Double-Talk of Christians make Jesus into Satan when they make his story like Babylon's Trinity. Then like Jesus, The Man, as a Messiah to make Heaven on Earth built on pious truth being told of god's origin in the ways of the Natural Order. It is the Christians that paint Jesus in the vogue of Babylon's Trinity that are dead in Christ. The Christians technically worship Jesus as Satan when they do this in their teaching. Only a very few understand that Jesus Trinity isn't that from Babylon. Those few that see the Jesus theme of "The Way" was about showing the world the ways of Nature to provide medicines like Myrrh and nourishments like bread and wine with Boron nutrition. They gave thanks for Nature's ways as god and the Lord's Prayer with the special word for super foods. Even the Lord's Prayer and the Last Supper theme was of this ultimate purpose of thanks to nature for these foods and the ultimate wish for Heaven on Earth via teaching these simple truths.

edit on 10-5-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Christian Religious Double Talk make them Dead of the Christ

andersonchapel.angelfire.com...

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Of course.... proof positive that he didn't want to die...

He only accepted his fathers will...

Easy, remember this is about how necessary our savior's sacrifice was and is.

In light of the verses presented, do you yet find the cross and our saviors sacrifice to still be unnecessary?

edit on 1-6-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)

His comming was only necessary to show us how God wants us to live...

His "sacrifice" was unnecessary... He did not need to die... and in fact, he wanted to live... but it wasn't to be.

He begged God to "take this cup from me"... but unfortunatly the powers that be wanted him dead.

I've never understood why you christians focus so much on his death... It was unimportant...

His life was what mattered... and while his execution was brutal, he did not "need" to die like many Christians believe...

The only reason said "sacrifice" was necessary, was so he could return to his followers after death, and prove to the world life exists beyound death.

His followers didn't "get it" while he was alive... but they clued in right quick when he came back.

Dear ATS Staff aka moderators,

It appears that there are problems being caused by the antics of the Religion and Theogy area. I would agree there are very serious problems in this area and ATS's moderators appear to have split and non-uniform ideas for dealing with the problems.

One of the most serious issues on ATS appears to be the systematic methods of the organized church types to attack content they don't like being developed and addressed on ATS. The method is they get several of their group together and talk about off-topic things running against the threads title and OP. What that method does is drive the on-topic submissions way down in the page count and so loads the threads theme with off-topic content that it turns readers off because the ATS moderators appear to no longer care about keeping a thread on topic and stopping the off-topic banter and bad behaviors being used to derail a threads content.

All that appears to be doing is driving up the ATS bandwidth with extranous off topic commentary and that would appear to do ATS resourses real harm. Do ATS moderator recognize what this group is doing? I think not, else they would address and fix the problems and there are many and they are obvious.

So, it does appear to me that the ATS moderator staff needs to all get on the same page about what they are going to do and share that with all the folks. Right now, when complaints are being made about these systemic thread disruption methods nothing is done, but previously something was done. It even appears there is now a split in the moderators thinking and a large failure to recognize a serious problem.

It appears that ATS, by the actions or inactions of its split personality moderation, is in the mode of ignore and support all the offtopic banter running up page counts on threads, looking more like denial of service methods to flood content and drive up page counts to bury the lastest on topic thread content.

Is the problem that the ATS can't seem to see this happening on various threads, or that ATS has taken a swing into the realm for support of the ignorance of religion by allowing the systematic derailment techniques to go on to distrupt theads. Inquiring minds want to know, since you all are complaigning of the Religion areas problems, just how ATS thinks allowing the disruption methods is going to look good for ATS staff.

I know that I am not impressed lately with what the ATS staff is doing when I call highly specific attention to the problems and they do methods to sustain the problems rather than deal with the problem. If ATS can't handle the Religion and Theology area with consistent and needed moderation, then it is time to just literally take it totally off the ATS theme areas. ATS is going to have to get off the fense sitting and recognize where the problem is coming from that causes much of the grief. If ATS is going to allow the systemtic thread disruptions, then I think everyone is going to be very doubtful that ATS is about denial of ignorance.

I don't see that ATS has come to terms with fixing the problems in this zone of ATS, and there is a definite split in moderation and inconsistency. I personally, don't think the ATS staff is addressing the most serious of the ATS problems that burns up bandwidth and page count to allow thread's contents to become derailed with content that drives readers away from the thread. Such is blatantly obvious and consistent with denail of service flooding type attacks in many ways, but it appears ATS moderators have on blinders.

If this is the case, either come up to speed with a way to deal with the problem makers using those deliberate methods, or close the entire area for all time and get out of that discussion business as your image to deny ignorance now appears one of promote ignorance by inattention to the most serious problem.

reply to post by Akragon



Are you telling me that:

1. Regardless of Jesus telling us to believe in him for everlasting life (John 11:25-26)
2. Regardless of Jesus words proclaiming how necessary it was for him to die (Matthew 16)
3. Regardless of Jesus proclaiming that dying for us is the very reason he came (John 12:27)
4. Regardless of Jesus profession that the work of God is that we believe on the one whom He sent (John 6:29)
5. Regardless of the testimony of Jesus and the man crucified beside him (Luke 23: 40-43)
6. Regardless of Jesus saying, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Regardless of all this, are you telling us that you do in fact yet refuse (a) the cross, (b) grace, (c) and faith in Jesus alone for redemption?

I would, plus I would do my own research outside of one book with a lot of problems.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

1. Regardless of Jesus telling us to believe in him for everlasting life (John 11:25-26)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2. Regardless of Jesus words proclaiming how necessary it was for him to die (Matthew 16)

Technically he didn't say that in Matthew 16... The Author did.

Regardless of Jesus proclaiming that dying for us is the very reason he came (John 12:27)

Dude!

you accuse me of cherry picking for pages then you feed me this?

I think you should read that chapter again... slowly........................

It was his life that was important man, not his death :shk:

4. Regardless of Jesus profession that the work of God is that we believe on the one whom He sent (John 6:29)

Belief has requirements... no?

Regardless of the testimony of Jesus and the man crucified beside him (Luke 23: 40-43)

Proof that All will be Saved?

6. Regardless of Jesus saying, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

This is Truth... but what does that mean to you?

Regardless of all this, are you telling us that you do in fact yet refuse (a) the cross,

The symbol... ya i refuse it... T

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

1. Regardless of Jesus telling us to believe in him for everlasting life (John 11:25-26)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Why do you give me an example of some coming to Jesus professing their works and him telling them he doesn't know them? Has one who puts his faith in his own works not testified against himself in this?

2. Regardless of Jesus words proclaiming how necessary it was for him to die (Matthew 16)

Technically he didn't say that in Matthew 16... The Author did.

So when the words of your self-proclaimed Lord aren't useful to you you say, "Technically Jesus never said anything because he didn't write any of it, the author did?"

Regardless of Jesus proclaiming that dying for us is the very reason he came (John 12:27)

Dude!

you accuse me of cherry picking for pages then you feed me this?

Don't project and deflect, Jesus said what he said and he said, "for this cause came I unto this hour," and he says this later on after rebuking Peter for telling him his sacrifice was unnecessary.

Don't you get it? Do you not know from whence the spirit is that says our Savior's death was unnecessary?

4. Regardless of Jesus profession that the work of God is that we believe on the one whom He sent (John 6:29)

Belief has requirements... no?

Not the kind you are preaching about.

Regardless of the testimony of Jesus and the man crucified beside him (Luke 23: 40-43)

Proof that All will be Saved?

This is proof that those who ask shall receive, those who seek shall find, those who knock to them it shall be opened. This is proof that our works don't save us, but our faith in Jesus does. This is the real life example of Jesus will, grace.

6. Regardless of Jesus saying, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

This is Truth... but what does that mean to you?

It means Jesus is the way, not our works.

Regardless of all this, are you telling us that you do in fact yet refuse (a) the cross,

The symbol... ya i refuse it... T

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Believe what you will my friend...

Without a something that shows others your belief... It means nothing...

Gods "grace" is wasted on those that show no example of that "grace"

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Believe what you will my friend...

Without a something that shows others your belief... It means nothing...

Gods "grace" is wasted on those that show no example of that "grace"

The Lord knows wherein are my works and for whom I do them. He also knows my heart. I am not he standing praying in the synagogues that I might be seen of men but am that sinner beating his chest not able to lift my eyes. I do not always let my right hand know what my left is doing but sometimes I will let my light so shine before men that they may see my good works, and glorify our Father which is in heaven.

But you, you say our Father's "grace" is wasted on those that show no example of that "grace," and you say all this even after refusing the cross and grace.

How can the spirit of a man be true in saying that Christ is his Lord when he refuses the grace of our Father, rejects the sacrifice of His son, and denies the very Spirit of God for the spirit of self-salvation?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

The Lord knows wherein are my works and for whom I do them. He also knows my heart. I am not he standing praying in the synagogues that I might be seen of men but am that sinner beating his chest not able to lift my eyes. I do not always let my right hand know what my left is doing but sometimes I will let my light so shine before men that they may see my good works, and glorify our Father which is in heaven.

Good for you

But you, you say our Father's "grace" is wasted on those that show no example of that "grace," and you say all this even after refusing the cross and grace.

I already said i take up my cross daily... And "Grace" was not taught by Jesus or his followers... That was paul that started the whole grace thing... and it led to "Christians" believing they can do whatever they like as long as they repent... The golden ticket to sin so to speak...

Grace is a white wash, which sums up everything into "belief"... even "faith"... and as i've said...Faith without an example of which means nothing

How can the spirit of a man be true in saying that Christ is his Lord when he refuses the grace of our Father, rejects the sacrifice of His son, and denies the very Spirit of God for the spirit of self-salvation?

Simply put... I am not Christian... And christ is not my lord... No man rules over me... Living or dead.

I AM the lord over my own temple...

Jesus is my example... one which i live by...

Only God rules me... and apparently we do not have the same God.

reply to post by Akragon

Simply put... I am not Christian... And christ is not my lord... No man rules over me... Living or dead.

I AM the lord over my own temple...

Jesus is my example... one which i live by...

Only God rules me... and apparently we do not have the same God.

May all of ATS now hear and know from whence is the spirit of Akragon.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


hahaha...

You seem to be the only one not paying attention here my friend...

I know from whenst my spirit came... and i know where i go when im done here...

Originally posted by Akragon

He didn't just die... he was executed.

Nah, Jesus didn't die. It was intended to execute him, but fell short due to Joseph of Aramea.

All that is the faked up Sun god worship stuff from the Babylon Triune.

Critical Thinkers don't buy Jesus is god like the Babylon faked up myth gods.

Judaism doesn't value Jesus. Islam allows Jesus as a Prophet, because the also do the Abraham theme involving the creator gods of Ur.

In the end, most all these beliefs in god for Jesus are just as corrupt as all those that came before. Jesus appeared to have even flown too close to the Sun and talked like he became god with too dangerous metaphors.

Just about any part of these concepts for god handed down from the lands of the Annunaki, Ur, and Abraham are all utter nonsense that isn't about a valid god concept these days.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
reply to post by Akragon

 

Simply put... I am not Christian... And christ is not my lord... No man rules over me... Living or dead.

I AM the lord over my own temple...

Jesus is my example... one which i live by...

Only God rules me... and apparently we do not have the same God.

May all of ATS now hear and know from whence is the spirit of Akragon.

Well, I don't buy the Trinity Either, nor Jesus as god. Jesus had some good ideas, but not all.

Jesus' god theme runs back to the City of Ur and the god of Abraham, which is all creatoer god, the Father, Annunaki theme of Enki. Even the god lives up in heaven in the distant sky.

So, it appears wise and educated to not believe in some ancient astronaught theme for god.


Jesus as god is pure bunk and a political contrivance of the Eastern Roman Empire that makes Jesus into nothing other than mostly a myth, with almost nothing based on the historic truth.

www.deism.com...

The Bible's Ungodly Origins

The Bible was not handed to mankind by God, nor was it dictated to human stenographers by God. It has nothing to do with God. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century.

------------

But when, according to the Christian Trinitarian scheme, one part of God is represented by a dying man, and another part, called the Holy Ghost, by a flying pigeon, it is impossible that belief can attach itself to such wild conceits. . . .

"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is not the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.

---------

"But by what authority do you call the Bible the Word of God? for this is the first point to be settled. It is not your calling it so that makes it so, any more than the Mahometans calling the Koran the Word of God makes the Koran to be so. The Popish Councils of Nice and Laodicea, about 350 years after the time the person called Jesus Christ is said to have lived, voted the books that now compose what is called the New Testament to be the Word of God. This was done by yeas and nays, as we now vote a law.

"The Pharisees of the second temple, after the Jews returned from captivity in Babylon, did the same by the books that now compose the Old Testament, and this is all the authority there is, which to me is no authority at all. I am as capable of judging for myself as they were, and I think more so, because, as they made a living by their religion, they had a self-interest in the vote they gave.

-----------

"When you have examined the Bible with the attention that I have done (for I do not think you know much about it), and permit yourself to have just ideas of God, you will most probably believe as I do. But I wish you to know that this answer to your letter is not written for the purpose of changing your opinion. It is written to satisfy you, and some other friends whom I esteem, that my disbelief of the Bible is founded on a pure and religious belief in God; for in my opinion the Bible is a gross libel against the justice and goodness of God, in almost every part of it."

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Jesus commanded his disciples at the end of Matthew to go forth and baptize all nations in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. I know you know this bc I read a reply of yours referencing it saying that your problem is when some make Jesus into the Father but I told you that we don't worship Jesus as God/Father. He is the Son.

Will you too, like Akra, presume to teach us about the ways of our Father and Christ apart from the Holy Spirit?