Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity

Originally posted by decisively

I make no assumptions. Everything is before you and is indeed incontrovertible

reply to post by DJW001

 

These are but simple facts. If you disagree, show me how that can be so.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 15-5-2012 by decisively because: link not correct and so fixed

I already did, remember?:

8) PHONY ASTRONAUT MALADIES AND PHONY CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE ALLELEGED CURES OF THESE MORE BOGUS THAN BOGUS ILLNESSES, INCLUDING BORMAN'S CISLUNAR DIARRHEA, DEKE SLAYTON’S VITAMIN RESPONSIVE ATRIAL FIBRILLATION AND ALAN SHEPARD’S MENIERE’S DISEASE PROBLEM THAT NOT ONLY RESPONDED TO SURGERY BY WAY OF A GUARANTEED CURE OF BOTH !!!!!! EARS WITH RESPECT TO VERTIGO , BUT ALSO RESPONDED TO SURGERY IN THE SENSE THAT SHEPARD’S ESTABLISHED 40 dB HEARING LOSS WAS FIXED AS WELL PROVES APOLLO INAUTHENTICITY.

Dealt with here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

... and elsewhere. Even if you believe the illnesses were not real, you have yet to establish a logical reason why this would mean that the Moon landings were "fraudulent."

9) Gene Kranz’s clairvoyance, his knowing the Apollo 13 LM would be needed as a “lifeboat” 15 minutes from the time of the bogus explosion while the EECOMs themselves knew not what was wrong, before the LM was even checked out as functional and NOT ITSELF ONE OF THE PROBLEMS TO BEGIN WITH demonstrates unambiguously Apollo’s fraudulence. Episodes of this nature, in this case of Kranz as just alluded to , or with John Aaron knowing just what to do as regards the Apollo 12 lightning strike situation (SEC to AUX), or Aaron’s claiming he knew simply by way of hearing DATA read to him over the phone that Apollo 13’s problem was hardware based and not an instrumentation problem,...

What part of training and insight do you not understand?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

More evidence of your sock puppetry, but I insist that you be forced to continue posting on ATS.

reply to post by decisively


I would pay good or bad money to lock you and Buzz Aldrin in a room with boxing gloves, a bag of nails, and a toaster, watch through a one-way mirror, and see which one of you 1) Puts on the boxing gloves first: 2) starts nailing logic to the floor, and 3) begins rewiring the toaster to make a radio to call for backup.

reply to post by decisively


when did mcdonald observatory fire the laser at tranquility base? were neil and buzz still on the moon??

reply to post by Aleister


It would be a mistake for Buzz to mix it up with me. At any time in his life a match he would have been not, This in more than one and all ways. Notwithstanding, I do abhor violence, more so than I do a make believe vacuum truth be told.

I wish Mr. Aldrin no ill will, though admittedly, one year ago, I did write him a letter, written all out by hand it was, some 17 pages long. It was a letter suggesting he relieve his troubled mind by telling the truth. I wrote to Neil Armstrong as well, not to mention others. Thought it only fair, to give them a chance before I wrote myself. They of course in a sense both underestimated us, and knew this was and is coming, all along.

It is one thing to stonewall in the face of a flag waving in a vacuum, God only knows what that would mean anyway, another thing altogether to hear or even read yourself that the details of the ruse as regards pretending to lose the spaceship Eagle is though certainly not public knowledge, nevertheless scrutinized now by more than a handful. To be the subject of the most abject and rank discovery under these circumstances must be horrifying. After all, many of us do now know that the Bart Sibrel punch was staged. Not a very tough astronaut, but I would be the last to gloat.

The astronauts are in pain, especially Armstrong. They should be offered amnesty, talk and they walk, just like in South Africa. WE THE PEOPLE get the truth and they go free, their souls released. That is what I truthfully wish for them. Peace in life, release from their great pain.

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

We understand eachother, at least I believe so. Your point was/is because the shot is "overexposed" the astronauts could not be expected to do the same, see the lasers, their eyes not having said feature of increasing the shutter or what have you. The image was taken by a "television camera" by the way.

My main point, irrespective of the equipment the astronauts or Surveyor 7 was packing, is that the McDonald scientists fully expected the astroanuts to be able to visualize the laser.

ABOVE IN BOLD AND UNDERLINED the important word!!!

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Aleister

 

It would be a mistake for Buzz to mix it up with me. At any time in his life a match he would have been not, This in more than one and all ways. Notwithstanding, I do abhor violence, more so than I do a make believe vacuum truth be told.

I beg to differ with you on this statement. Let's take a look at a few snippets from his life:

Buzz was educated at the US Military Academy at West Point, graduating third in his class with a B.S. in mechanical engineering. He then joined the Air Force where he flew F86 Sabre Jets in 66 combat missions in Korea, shot down two MIG-15′s, and was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross. After a tour of duty in Germany flying F100’s, he went on to earn his Doctorate of Science in Astronautics at MIT and wrote his thesis on Manned Orbital Rendezvous.

Selected by NASA in 1963 into the third group of astronauts, Aldrin was the first with a doctorate and became known as “Dr. Rendezvous.” The docking and rendezvous techniques he devised for spacecraft in Earth and lunar orbit became critical to the success of the Gemini and Apollo programs, and are still used today. He also pioneered underwater training techniques, as a substitute for zero gravity flights, to simulate spacewalking.

In 1966, on the Gemini 12 orbital mission, Buzz performed the world’s first successful spacewalk, overcoming prior difficulties experienced in all American and Russian extra-vehicular activity (EVA), and set a new EVA record of 5 ½ hours.

Then, on July 20, 1969, Buzz and Neil Armstrong made their historic Apollo 11 moonwalk, becoming the first two humans to set foot on another world. They spent 21 hours on the lunar surface and returned with 46 pounds of moon rocks. The largest worldwide television audience – an estimated 600 million people, witnessed this unprecedented heroic endeavor.

Since retiring from NASA and the Air Force, Col. Aldrin has remained at the forefront of efforts to ensure America’s continued leadership in human space exploration. He devised a master plan for missions to Mars – the “Aldrin Mars Cycler” – a spacecraft transportation system with perpetual cycling orbits between Earth and Mars.

Dr. Aldrin reaches out to today’s youth with his illustrated children’s books: Reaching for the Moon and Look to the Stars, both New York Times best sellers. His 2009 New York Times best selling autobiography, Magnificent Desolation, has inspired the lives of readers worldwide.

In addition, he has authored two space science-fact-fiction novels: Encounter with Tiber and The Return. His non-fiction works include the best-seller historical documentary, Men from Earth, and an early 1970’s autobiography, Return to Earth.

As one of the leading space exploration advocates, Buzz continues to chart a course for future space travel from Planet Earth to the moon and on to Mars. Buzz also promotes his Rocket Hero brand through creative licensing and endorsement partnerships with companies such as Nike, Omega and Louis Vuitton.

Buzz Aldrin Bio

I think this man is more than capable of holding his own paired up to just about anyone.

The character of a man is shown in how he has lived his life. Buzz's life does not look as if he has a deep dark secret that has haunted him these past 40 years. On the contrary, he exudes a confidence of someone who has done great things, like landing on the Moon. It is an easy thing to build a life on the truth, it is next to impossible to support something that did not happen.

Buzz punched Sebril in the face because he was fed up with his constant harassment which had go on for years. Sebril was noted for his ambush tactics as was demonstrated when the famous punch was recorded.

reply to post by decisively

Peace in life, release from their great pain.

What is the source of your pain, decisively? You are clearly obsessed with the Apollo missions; why do they torment you so? Why do you lash out with such great anger? Why do you accuse one of the Apollo Hoax theory's most eminent proponents of somehow being in on the fraud? It is as though you are lashing out in all directions. Perhaps if you make your own confession, you will find some peace. You're not Bart Sibrel, are you?

So you are afraid to have a proper debate? You must not be very sure of your position.

reply to post by Gibborium

A National Disgrace

Oh please, I would, will, and do mop the floor with the clown, not to mention cislunar space, in all respects; past , present and future, no problemo.

Buzz Aldrin, sadly, is quite frankly a national disgrace, a national embarrassment.

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Gibborium

 

A National Disgrace

Oh please, I would, will, and do mop the floor with the clown, not to mention cislunar space, in all respects; past , present and future, no problemo.

oh really?? lets see your 300+ page thesis on rendezvous methods, orbital mechanics, orbital velocity calculations, range rate calculations..

perhaps you want to go through Buzz Aldrin's thesis and explain in very detailed layman's terms how the equations work and how they were derived and how/why they are needed?

reply to post by decisively

Oh please, I would, will, and do mop the floor with the clown, not to mention cislunar space, in all respects; past , present and future, no problemo.

You'd better be careful what you say; I'm positive that punch wasn't faked.

What does a 300 page thesis have to do with actually performing a LOR ?

reply to post by choos



Aldrin never actually rendezvoused a LM with an Apollo CM in lunar orbit. We know that for a fact because as of the time of the LM's launching, Aldrin and Armstrong, by their own admission, knew not where the Eagle had pretended to touch down. Yet rooms full of bespectacled astronomer geek types at Lick and McDonald Observatories were at that very time of PRETENDED RENDEZVOUS, furiously blasting away at or near 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east. Don't get any more make believe than that my friend choos. Need I remind this erudite group of the pretended cislunar exchange well documented in the fraudulent Apollo 11 Voice Transcript;


From 06 07 33 59

CC: For 64 thousand dollars, we're still trying to work out the location of your landing site, Tranquility Base. We think it is located on LAM-2 chart at Juliet 0.5 and 7.8. Do you still have those charts on board? Over.

CDR : Yes. Stand by one. They're packed.

CC: Roger. You may not have to unpack it. The position which I just gave you is slightly west
of West Crater. I guess it's about two-tenths of a kilometer west of it, and we were wondering if Neil or Buzz had observed any additional landmarks during descent, lunar stay, or ascent which would confirm or disprove this. One thing that we're wondering about is that if you were at this position, you would have seen the Cat's Paw
during ascent just up to the north of your track. Over.

CDR: We were looking for the Cat's Paw, too, thinking we were probably downrange, beyond the Big V.
But I think that it's likely that that might have been West Crater that we went across in landing, but Stand by.
We're hoping, Bruce, that our 16-mm film was working at that point in descent, and we'll be
able to confirm our touchdown position. We thought that during ascent we might be able to pick up some recognizable objects close to the landing site, and we did see a number of small craters, and crater rows, and things like that, which we may be able to pick out after the fact, but we haven't been able to yet.


So let's run the facts again here. Absolutely nothing in dispute here. Armstrong would agree, Aldrin would agree, Collins would agree, Kranz, Schiesser, the whole lot.

At 04 06 46 04; Armstrong says; THE EAGLE HAS LANDED. That was 20:17 UTC or 16:17 EDT on 07/20/1969.
At 04 13 24 48; Armstrong says; ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN..... That was at 02:56 UTC 07/21/1969 or 22:56 EDT 07/20/1969.

The alleged cislunar conversation above between Armstrong and CapCom McCandless occurred therefore; 2 days and 48 minutes after the Eagle touched down and One day and eighteen hours after the alleged first step on the moon.

The Eagle was alleged to have lifted off from the lunar surface at 05 04 21 54. As the official story is told, launch FIDO H. David Reed, upon the advice of his DYNAMICS Officer, solved for the Eagle's location and more importantly, its dynamic relationship with the CM just before the alleged ascent. It would not be known for some 11 days later, but Reed's reverse rendezvous radar solution would then be determined to have located the Eagle to within 200 meters of the LRRR as the LRRR's precise location was determined by its first successful Lick Observatory targeting 08/01/1969.

Back to the above emphasized conversation, it occurs therefore one day and three hours after the Eagle's alleged lunch from the surface of the moon.

So, here we have nothing less than an example of Apollo narrative SUPREME INTERNAL INCOHERENCE. For better than a day and a half, teams of astronomers have been targeting the VERY SPOT that Commander Armstrong and CapCom Bruce McCandless claim they simply cannot find, Armstrong representing efforts from the alleged lunar adventure side of things, CapCom McCandless speaking for the entire "Earth bound" effort to find the Eagle. Not a one knows. NEIL ARMSTRONG HIMSELF DOES NOT KNOW WHERE THE EAGLE LANDED. The commander again from that just referenced conversation;

"We're hoping, Bruce, that our 16-mm film was working at that point in descent, and we'll be
able to confirm our touchdown position. We thought that during ascent we might be able to pick up some recognizable objects close to the landing site, and we did see a number of small craters, and crater rows, and things like that, which we may be able to pick out after the fact, but we haven't been able to yet."

Really Neil, isn't that curious, you "HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO YET " figure out where you landed your spaceship, all the while astronomer Joseph Wampler is painting it with Ruby Red laser light ?

Beyond absurd, nothing less and NOTHING MORE THAN VERY VERY VERY FAKE........

reply to post by decisively


apollohoax.proboards.com...

you dont know what the lick observatory had on the night they landed.. you only have one number 50 mistaken for 15.

the projected landing site was 42' 50"N and 23 42' 28". 50 and 15... you are just assuming everything from a 37 year old account from memory with coordinates referenced later when he is able to.. remember stone wrote that account on a plane over texas in 2007.. you dont know what happened on the night, only what stone says happened with hind-sight knowledge.

neil had a clue that they were near west crater, the reverse rendezvous solution was assumed to be accurate enough for lift off from lunar surface but still too early to say it was within 200m of the actual location.

and if you post the rest of that transcript you will find this:

151:41:28 Armstrong: Well, aside from the one big one that we went over, I guess there were none in our area. I took a stroll back after putting up the EASEP, and while Buzz was starting to unpack [likely means 'pack up'] the documented sample, took - took a stroll back to a crater behind us that was maybe 70 or 80 feet in diameter and 15 or 20 feet deep, and took some pictures of it. It had rocks in the bottom of pretty good size, considerably bigger than any that were out on the surface, but there was no - we apparently, at 15 feet or so, had not gotten below the regolith. We were essentially showing no bedrock, at least in the walls of the crater at that depth. Over.

armstrong describing little west crater.. this description is much more accurate than what the rendezvous radar can give. so from here on out they will know that the rendezvous solution was within 200m of the actual location.

so you saying they knew reverse rendezvous solution to be within 200m before liftoff is also wrong as they only knew it was within 200m in HIND-SIGHT. just like my point about stone's email.

understand yet?? the exact pin-point location of tranquility base was not important. they just needed enough confidence of its close general area.

and did you know the lick observatory's laser was not designed for accurate lasing? it was designed for quick aquisition, mcdonald observatory is more accurate, this suggests that the lick observatory did NOT need exact pin-point location of the LRRR to get a signal return.

no, incorrect

reply to post by choos



go to, www.ucolick.org... and click on "read first hand account"

Lick Observatory Telescope operator Remmington Stone wrote the following in his first person account about the night of the landing;

"We blasted away all night but detected no return signal whatsoever. Things got pretty subdued later in the evening as it became apparent we had a problem.

This problem was identified the next day when someone called Houston again to verify the lunar coordinates, which turned out to be 00°41′15′′N, 23°26′00′′W. Despite the fact that Joe had repeated every number three separate times, they were still wrong. The person he had spoken with in Houston that first night had a deep Texas accent, and although the last two digits in the N-S coordinate group were 15, through the thick Texan drawl Joe had consistently heard "fifty" rather than "fifteen", so we had not been pointed at the correct spot on the first night."

As discussed, the "W" there is a well recognized typo. So they knew EXACTLY where the LRRR was, EXACTLY where the Eagle was 11 days before Neil Armstrong was said to have known where he was alleged to have parked his alleged spaceship.

Fascinating , No ?

reply to post by decisively

Fascinating , No ?

Not really. What does any of this have to do with whether or not Apollo 11 actually landed on the Moon?

reply to post by decisively


have you ever wondered why 00°41′15′′N, 23°26′00′′W is printed in a different font? all other numbers and symbols are all the same font..


and also do you know what time they called the next day??? the geologist had a good location of tranquility base which was relayed to to collins at about 9hrs after touch down.. and they had the rendezvous solution 30minutes prior to lift-off...

so do you know exactly what time when "someone" called the next day???

i dont believe you do, regardless the coordinates they would have received would not have been 00°41′15′′N, 23°26′00′′W, as those numbers were written into the email with hindsight knowledge.

reply to post by choos

We can do LOST BIRD plenty well, even without the Lick Observatory and LRRR concern

I wondered about that myself, as anyone naturally would, and actually asked the staff at Lick Observatory and those that maintain the University opf California Observatories web site that question. I also asked Professor Wampler what he was told by Houston how accurate the data was that he was given that evening(07/20/1969), at least how accurate it was alleged by NASA to have been. With regard to the latter, Professor Wampler informed me that NASA told him, to the best of his recollection anyhoo, the numbers, real-time landing site coordinates, were accurate to within TENS OF FEET.

It is about time we opened this subject up a bit further. I suggest choos that you take a look at the original SCIENCE(1969 and 1970) articles by C.O. Alley(LRRR Experiment Principle Investigator) regarding the LRRR experiment, and in particular, see what Alley had to say as regards why the Lick Observatory Staff did not successfully target the LRRR on 07/20/1969-07/21/1969. Alley corroborates the story as told by Lick Observatory Telescope Technician Remminton Stone, that the problem successfully targeting the LRRR on the evening of 07/20/1969 did NOT have to do with coordinate accuracy/inaccuracy, but rather, had to do with the JPL programming problems I discussed previously and will review yet again in forthcoming posts. In other words, Alley's telling of the first successful LRRR targeting on 08/01/1969 confirms that the Lick staff did indeed have the correct coordinates to begin with on the night of 07/20/1969.

If you do not have access to the SCIENCE archives, you can simply wait for my postings coming up as regards this in the next few days. I'll load them into an on line reader and you may have a look. Important, seminal articles, you may well already be familiar. Professor Faller was an author on these as well.

Even more significantly, take a look at these additional recent posts of mine from another ATS thread addressing the LOST BIRD issue;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Note the interesting interaction I had with PlurPerfect, first he question my competency, then called me "pedantic" and then gave up trying to counter my claim that H. David Reed's account of the Eagle landing site coordinate solution options disagreed so robustly with the claims of the Apollo 11 Mission Report authors, that in sum, this contradiction, this monstrous internal incoherency, constiuted proof of Apollo 11 mission Fraudulence, in and of itself.

Most significantly, as regards these posts, you can see that "LOST BIRD" , by that I mean Houston's/Armstong's claims that they knew not where the Eagle had landed is NOT AT ALL DEPENDENT ON THE LRRR ISSUE. In other words, the fraudlent business of the Eagle's being lost is amply demonstrated simply by looking at Reed's claims and their contradictory nature when matched up against the claims of NASA generally as they published(November 1969) their landing site data in the Apollo 11 Mission Report.

We can do LOST BIRD plenty well without the crazy Lick Observatory scenario, though of course , that is a marvelous example of Houston lying about the "Eagle's unknown landing site" to be sure.

I shalll follow up on these recent LOST BIRD posts that appeared in the other thread with further analysis of the Mission Report data here in this thread. This will lead to a full indictment and conviction of mathematician and trajectory specialist Emil Schiesser as An Apollo fraud perpetrator.

Stay tuned, it is indeed an over the top, wildly interesting subject.

reply to post by decisively


the timing window was found out afterwards, but even in stone's account they had the wrong coordinates.

no one had the exact coordinates of tranquility base, this is impossible to have known regardless of what you think.

the LRRR cannot pinpoint the reflector's location it can target it but it cannot pinpoint any location.

NASA's telemetry cannot pinpoint any of the lunar modules, i dont believe they are able to pinpoint any landings of apollo 11-17, the only way to pinpoint is to reference it off visual landmarks.

the only way to absolutely confirm tranquility base was to analyse photos and the ascent/descent footage and compare the telemetry. this is the only way to get exact pinpoint location of tranquility base.

ask yourself how did reed know that his radar solution was within 200m of the actual location? the answer is because of hindsight knowledge. the coordinates that stone used were rough coordinates of the area not once did they have the exact pinpoint location. 2miles is NOT pinpoint accurate.

reply to post by decisively

Alley corroborates the story as told by Lick Observatory Telescope Technician Remminton Stone, that the problem successfully targeting the LRRR on the evening of 07/20/1969 did NOT have to do with coordinate accuracy/inaccuracy, but rather, had to do with the JPL programming problems I discussed previously and will review yet again in forthcoming posts.

It's been five days now since you made this promise. Why have you dropped this subject altogether? Bit off more than you can chew, eh? No matter. By the way, did you know that the Apollo laser retroreflectors are now the benchmarks for the lunar control network?

reply to post by DJW001

Your persona non grata status not withstanding

I shall no longer respond to you directly in this thread or any other DJW001;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for my posting Alley's SCIENCE article, I shall do it when I get around to it. I have decided on addressing a few other issues first as you'll read here if you continue to take interest in this thread, your persona non grata status not withstanding.....