The wolves need your help

reply to post by Indigo5

Again...To assume that you know what is better for nature than nature itself is a fools conciet. Everytime we ef with the ecosystem thinking we know best...everything goes haywire.

Like reintroducing a non native species into an area they are not NATIVE to? A bit hypocritical isnt it?

Lets not forget about your lil stats with the elk populations...

yes they boomed, until regular hunting seasons and wildlife MANAGEMENT got them under control and now they are thriving and so is the area........I lived, Hunted, and studied in the area, I know.....

2nd It hardly makes sense to post about the populations and then claim how our intervention causes issues, and THEN try and make it logical for us to intervene AGAIN by putting in predators that are not native to the area and are even WORSE for the ecosystem there.........

Stop with the emotion, and more with the truth of the matter.............

Your source also states

Do wolves really attack their prey just for the fun of it? No. When they kill more than they can eat in one sitting, the pack usually comes back for second helpings

When anyone who has hunted, or lived in the wild can tell you that they indeed can and do, its unusual for it to happen, but these HUGE packs that are in the area that are non native and over fed, sure as hell do.......theyve found WEEKS old kills where nothing was eaten .....

Another false statement

However, wolves only turn to livestock when their natural prey is unavailable, so these killings are infrequent.

Especially in the area of Idaho where the Elk populations were huge, there is no reason for them to be taking livestock BUT THEY DO......

Anyone can tell you that wolves like ALL predators arent just hunters but oportunistic hunters.......they will take down prey that is easier to kill.....

its a fact............just like with all predators targeting the sick, or easily taken down..........

Like say.......cattle.......fenced in to an area that they cannot get away from...........

Im tired of the lies by the conservationists.......and this moral high ground B.S,

They have introduced a NON NATIVE species that is DESTRUCTIVE and dont want to own up to it...

They condemn man for his actions against nature, and then turn around and do the exact damn thing by introducing Flora and Fauna that should NOT be there


This link provides pictures, links and testimonies of sport killings! Link

Most animals kill for sport on occasion.........

The fact that these huge packs attack a herd of elk and kill so many of them and then leave them lay is proof....

Anyone that says they dont, has apparently never observed ANY animal that has ever brought home something dead........

Originally posted by scoodoo20
reply to post by truthrising2012

 

action.defenders.org...

Thanks for the link, I'll repeat it.


Save Wolves

reply to post by AlbinoMonkey


i would be quite happy to bump into a wolf pack on my way home at night,
im not scared and would love to see them wild but not very likely in the uk

and as for shy they used shepards to guard there flocks with
sticks not bows and arrows (or guns these days),

why do you think they carried staffs instead of
bows? because a staff would be good enough to scare away a wolf thats dareing enough to
to approach the most violent, dangerest killer on the planet (man).

i dont care if you saw one eatting on the side of the road maybe it was a wolf/dog hybrid?
and if it was a wolf have you thought about the fact that it probably would have ran if someone
got out of there car and tried to approch it?
with i stick incase it had some illness or extreamly desperate and hungry enough to
stand its ground.

theres never been a documented case of a healthy wolf attacking a human,

humans are dangerous and living in the wild you cant run the risk of of getting injured
if you try to attack something as dangerous as man wolves know this,
thats why there shy of man.
in the wild you get injured in most cases its over for you as you cant hunt or protect yourself as well as you could before getting injured.
wolves are smart and know that

I thought your post was Awesome and I do respect your opinion. However, a while back I wrote a thread about the Wolves taking over here in North Eastern Minnesota, and honestly I am sticking to my guns. I don't believe in killing animals unless its a means to provide food, or there is a human in danger by one.

Lately though, after seeing firsthand the alarming rate of wolves and the more alarming rate of the moose, deer, and other native wildlife's dead carcus's laying everywhere and how they are becoming almost impossible to see alive.......Yes, I am concerned.

reply to post by VoidHawk


You are more then welcome. If we hadn't hunted every 'natural' prey for this animal then maybe they would stay away from livestock and the fact that we keep encroaching further and further into their natural territory the more we will destroy these majestic animals. I fear for these animals...

Originally posted by scoodoo20
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

You are more then welcome. If we hadn't hunted every 'natural' prey for this animal then maybe they would stay away from livestock and the fact that we keep encroaching further and further into their natural territory the more we will destroy these majestic animals. I fear for these animals...

I guess you are totally ignoring the posts the point out the fact and proof, that these animals are NOT just hunting live stock because they have a lack of food..........

IE areas full of wild game

reply to post by slaine1978


Except that wolves dont hunt solo very often, most the time its in packs, and youre not going to scare them off with a staff , especially if they are on the hunt.......

The staff was used for the sheep, and other things,not to keep wolves at bay.......

The naivete of someone saying theyd love to bump in to one of these animals in the wild , just points out the fact that you guys have spent very little if ANY time in the wild where these guys are dominant predators.......

They arent small dog sized animals, they are large powerful creatures that will take you down if they think they can over power you........

yes they are gorgeous, and yes people feel connected to them........

But they dont come from your dream world, and its not part of some magical happening........

These great creatures are wild and are just as dangerous as any other predator

theres never been a documented case of a healthy wolf attacking a human,

complete and utter BS

Here is how you can help: Sign the petition below to stop Aerial Wolf Killings. Click here on this LINK:

Tell Obama to Stop Aerial Wolf Killing in Idaho Your tax dollars could be used to pay for an ill-conceived aerial wolf cull in Northeastern Idaho -- an unscientific plan to boost game populations that could kill as many as two thirds of the wolves in the Lolo District of the Clearwater National Forest. Defenders of Wildlife is calling on President Obama and his administration to deny Idaho’s request to have federal agents carry out aerial wolf killing in Idaho. Will you join us?

reply to post by VoidHawk


Just a quick comment to point out that the UK does have Wolves, as part of the Wolf Conservation Trust where they are raising several wolf packs and providing education to the general public. I have attended one of the sites and had an introduction to the fantastic work that they do.

reply to post by oldrockchick


Congratulations on your first post, I gave you the first star.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


yes they hunt in packs and can be dangerous but however
they are fearfull of humans and yes a staff would be enough,
they would not risk getting injured if there is easyer prey around

and as they are fearfull of humans makeing loud noises, showing no fear
and swinging a large staff around hitting trees or ground with it to make noise ect and a show of aggresion
would spook them out and make them back off,

they back off from large healthy dear as seen in the video and choose to go after
weeker or injured animals.

i am not scared of a pack of wolves, they would be more scared of me

i do not care if you think im naive,

and you dont know my background

as jeantherapy said on page 5 of this thread as wolves are territorial a speaker playing a large pack of wolves howling
is enough to deter them from going after livestock, its been proven in poland
and that is the answer to the farmers, rancher's problems in the usa no need for fences

show me the evidence of them ever attacking a human please .

most anti wolf people dont want wolves around because they hunt the prey
that human hunters like to kill for sport,
where as wolves hunt for food.

and those saying they kill for no reason and leave the carcass there
there not there comeing back and forth to the kill when there hungry,
just like we go to the fridge.

Originally posted by Ops4Ops
I thought your post was Awesome and I do respect your opinion. However, a while back I wrote a thread about the Wolves taking over here in North Eastern Minnesota, and honestly I am sticking to my guns. I don't believe in killing animals unless its a means to provide food, or there is a human in danger by one.

Lately though, after seeing firsthand the alarming rate of wolves and the more alarming rate of the moose, deer, and other native wildlife's dead carcus's laying everywhere and how they are becoming almost impossible to see alive.......Yes, I am concerned.

Same thing I said in an earlier post. I live in the UP of Michigan so I know what you are going through. Areas where deer and other mammals were plentiful became barren wastelands until the packs moved on for better hunting ground. I love going into the woods and seeing many different species of animals, yes including deer. It got old fast when I kept having to drag dead deer off my property, deer that were not even eaten just killed for sport. A local Native America told me that if a wolf sees a prey animal running away, what makes you think they won't chase it and kill it?

reply to post by slaine1978


I had roughly 20 deer carcasses stay just outside my camp property, once I dragged them off, that basically went to spoil once spring time weather came. Sure, I saw small mammals and birds, even a bald eagle, pick at them but the wolves never came back. Only canine I saw was one coyote that would regularly come and feed. In the past I would see a lot of coyotes but the wolves could have gotten them too. Someone told me wolves would kill coyotes as they saw them as a threat to their territory, who knows.

I wish I would have had a chance to harvest the meat but was told by numerous biologists that once wolves or other canines bite them there is a chance of contracting various diseases.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Management

• European settlers reduced the elk population from 10 million to less than 100,000 by 1900
• Hunters and wildlife managers began transplanting elk all over the United States and Canada in the early 1900s
• They captured elk from Yellowstone National Park and transported them by wagon, truck and train
• Elk herds re-established in most western states, and in Pennsylvania
• State and provincial game agencies eventually restored herds in Arkansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ontario, Kentucky, Tennessee and Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
• State and provincial game managers conduct annual elk counts and use the data to set hunting seasons and the number of licenses issued
• State and federal agencies team with groups like the Elk Foundation to purchase and improve wildlife habitat

www.rmef.org...

Facts are that, although they are not endangered, we still take way too many from the population. Leaving wolves to take live stock.

Originally posted by slaine1978
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

yes they hunt in packs and can be dangerous but however
they are fearfull of humans and yes a staff would be enough,

Okay. You do that. We'll see how that goes when their prey drive kicks in and you are standing between them and their prey with a stick. We'll find your bloodstain in the snow in the morning and that is all that will be left of you, and Fish and Game will say it was a pack of feral dogs.

Originally posted by slaine1978
they would not risk getting injured if there is easyer prey around

Exactly, now you are catching on. Which is why they will go for your mellow, hemmed in, domesticated cow or sheep, or you with your little stick, instead of an elk or a deer that runs faster and fight a whole lot harder.

Originally posted by slaine1978
and as they are fearfull of humans makeing loud noises, showing no fear
and swinging a large staff around hitting trees or ground with it to make noise ect and a show of aggresion
would spook them out and make them back off

How do you know this? Have you tried this? While I will acknowledge that this tactic may work with a single wolf, a pack won't back down from that. An 800 lb elk makes all sorts of scary noises and is aggressive when trying to fend off wolves, and is a whole lot more dangerous than even a large human male armed with just a stick, and a pack will take that elk. They harry and rush them until they die. Wolves are relentless. And if you are wandering around in their territory or close to a den with pups and they perceive you as a threat because you are "acting aggressive" you are screwed buddy.

Originally posted by slaine1978
i do not care if you think im naive,

and you dont know my background

You're right, I don't know your background; I'll give you mine though. I live in Montana. I do have livestock, although my livelihood is not dependent upon them. My horses are pets, and I would be devastated if they were taken by predators. However, many of my friends and neighbors are ranchers and their livelihood is dependent upon their livestock. I am willing to bet that your "background" is not nearly as authoritative on the subject as you would like people here to believe. From what you have written, you know the first two things about wolf behavior, and that is about it.

I don't know if you are naive, you are certainly starry eyed about wolves and have an unrealistic perspective. I do know that you are self-righteous and trying to tell me how to live my life when you know nothing about it. I'm not telling you how to live yours.

Originally posted by slaine1978
as jeantherapy said on page 5 of this thread as wolves are territorial a speaker playing a large pack of wolves howling
is enough to deter them from going after livestock, its been proven in poland
and that is the answer to the farmers, rancher's problems in the usa no need for fences

That is one answer, and it may work. However, while that will work on a small transient pack, I will guarantee that it will not work all the time, and in many cases it will only be a temporary solution. Wolves are smart, and many will figure out over time that there are no wolves there. They may hear them, but they won't smell them or see them, and dominant wolves will try to take over another territory if the hunting is better there. Also, playing recordings of wolves has been a tactic used to draw them in as well. It may backfire.

Originally posted by slaine1978
most anti wolf people dont want wolves around because they hunt the prey
that human hunters like to kill for sport,
where as wolves hunt for food.

Wrong again, and intentionally misleading I might add. Most people that don't want wolves around don't want them because they kill their livestock, and are dangerous.

Originally posted by slaine1978
and those saying they kill for no reason and leave the carcass there
there not there comeing back and forth to the kill when there hungry,
just like we go to the fridge.

That isn't true. They will leave carcasses to rot. I can't say there isn't a purpose. Perhaps they are teaching youngsters to hunt...? Regardless, they will kill more than they can consume and leave it.

Originally posted by redhorse


Okay. You do that. We'll see how that goes when their prey drive kicks in and you are standing between them and their prey with a stick. We'll find your bloodstain in the snow in the morning and that is all that will be left of you, and Fish and Game will say it was a pack of feral dogs.

There have been only two documented cases of wolves killing people in the history of the whole North American continent, including Canada...none in the USA, and in those cases there were not witnesses, so it could not be determined whether it was a case of scavenging the remains of someone that died from natural causes or actual wolf kills.

In contrast to the 2 possible wolf fatalities in canada...about 10,000 people have died by lightening strikes in North America in the past century...worst case scenario assuming the wolves weren't scavenging, that still means you are 5,000 times more likely to be struck by lightening than killed by a wolf.

between 20 and 30 people are killed by pet dogs each year...40 to 50 people killed by bee stings...200 people die in auto accidents with deer per year in the US ...as opposed to two possible victims of wolves in just Canada in the past 100 years

We should wipe out the deer populations in the USA, exterminate our pet dogs and wipe out the bees, shake our fist in the air at God for the whole lightening thing...and then we can revisit the wolf issue.

reply to post by Indigo5


I fear for my dogs life more than my own. If you are walking your dog in the woods wolves will attack and kill them.

I'm sorry but the bee stings and dog bites are not the same as the deer fatalities. The deer are just trying to move about in the only way they know how - it isn't their fault that the entire goddamn planet is crisscrossed by unnatural manmade features. Our desire to drive to Walgreens at 3am for some Cherry Garcia means nothing to them, nor should it.

Originally posted by redhorse
I live in Montana. I do have livestock, although my livelihood is not dependent upon them. My horses are pets, and I would be devastated if they were taken by predators.

Better exterminate those horse! They kill over 200 people per year in the USA...the wolf? Zero...

and "possibly" only 2 cases (uncertain if it was scavenging of folks that dies of natural causes in the wild) in Canada in the past 100 years.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by redhorse
I live in Montana. I do have livestock, although my livelihood is not dependent upon them. My horses are pets, and I would be devastated if they were taken by predators.

Better exterminate those horse! They kill over 200 people per year in the USA...the wolf? Zero...

and "possibly" only 2 cases (uncertain if it was scavenging of folks that dies of natural causes in the wild) in Canada in the past 100 years.

Keeping an intelligent, independent animal as an entertainment slave is a worse fate than a bullet in the brain ;/

Actually I would consider it a better end to their life to be taken by wolves than whatever may happen to a deceased pet. I hope when I die the land gets to reclaim me, rather than being cremated or buried in a lead lined box.