The wolves need your help

"If the devil had an animal its the human race"

Wolves for me are the definition of freedom,wolves are one of those animals that speak to apart of me that is not often stirred up by the human race.It is truely shocking how some of us treat animals.

Regards to all

Well, on one hand, I try to care for all living things. On the other hand, if we in America go down, there will be nobody to help the wolves except the wolves.

As much as I'd love to help the wolves, if I had to choose, I'd try to help restore order to America. But, I think with the my mostly apathetic peers of this country, the country will be further hijacked than it already is.

So, we might as well help the wolves...

(wow I managed to go from "let's not" to "might as well" without planning on it)

Incase anyone feels inclined to say "but we have to protect our live stock" I say the following.

1. Your correct, you should protect your stock. Use some of the profits you gained from your sales and put up some fences.

2. I fear for the health of the wolves should they eat the meat you have pickled in Monsanto chemicals so please keep your livestock in a secured area so they cannot harm the wolves.

3. Grow crops not live stock. A field of wheat uses ALL the carbon within a meter of the ground in just FIVE MINUTES.

4. Grow crops not live stock and we can FEED THE WORLD.

5. The wolves were here long before you were even born.


1. The only fencing that would work would also keep the deer and elk from reaching the grazing lands. So in a few years your wolves would starve too.

2. The Monsanto cattle you worry about are feedlot cattle. Most of the grazing cattle your talking about are organic.

3. Row crops won't grow in the mountians, that's why it's cattle country.

4. American beef is exported around the world.

5. There has'nt been wolves here since i was born and the ecosystem has managed just fine as it will continue to do without them.

After watching the Liam Neeson movie "The Grey" I'd say send those damn wolves back to Hell where they came from!!!!


Only kiddin of course!

reply to post by Aleister


You were bitten by a zombie??

I have no problems with allowing wolves to exist. Man, as a super predator, is responsible for managing nature also. The balance of nature is important, if any part of it gets off balance or disrupted it causes problems. I like deer but they break into my gardens. 8 foot fences are needed. I can coexist with the deer even though we have different ways of thinking. When wolf populations get too high in an area they need to be controlled, that's our job.

If three hungry wolves were circling someone who was trying to protect the wolves their attitude might change. They hide in their cities and cry protect the wolves. I like wolves but know that overpopulation in an area is not good. I also know that those who fear wolves have legitimate reasons. It is bad to kill all them off, we need to manage them so we can exist together.

You wolf lovers have ALL been mis-lead and LIED to about the wolf re-introduction program. I live here in Montana about 60 miles from Yellowstone where they were first re-introduced and have seen FIRST HAND how these wolves were improperly re-introduced, what they are doing to our once outstanding elk herd, some of the local economies and how the "wolf people" INTENTIONALLY maipulated the data to promote this agenda. LET ME EXPLAIN BEFORE YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS! THESE ARE THE FACTS-NO BS.

First of all the wolves they re-introduced are CANADIAN TIMBER WOLVES not the gray wolves that were here before the genocide and there is a BIG difference. If you did a genetic DNA test on the 2 species they would test identical, but that is not an accurate assesment. The Canadian wolves get much bigger with some of the males getting up to 240 lbs or more. One of the large males shot here in Montana during the recent wolf hunt dresses out at 262lbs! They don't all get this big but overall they ARE bigger because they are adapted to a much colder and more extreme environment and they best way for an animal to survive in extreme cold is through BODY MASS. They also breed TWICE a year, like dogs, and their litters are bigger and more of them survive. Because of this their population is expanding EXPONENTIALLY and is OUT OF CONTROL. Even with the recent wolf hunts here in the Montan-Idaho-Wyoming area, the overall population STILL expanded by 20%.
Secondly, they wolves they brought down from Canada were ALL infected with a highly contagious parasitic tapeworm disease and they re-introduction team knew about this, did NOTHING ABOUT IT, and covered up this FACT to promote this agenda! It is estimated that about 80% of ALL the wolves here now are infected with this tapeworm. The total number of their population has also been intentionally GROSSLY UNDERREPORTED!
Thirdly, because the population is growing out of control, our elk herd has been devastated by these huge beasts because their larger size and bigger packs make it easier for them to take down many large elk.Deer are just bonus points for them. The Yellowstone herd was once over 19k, now its down to less than 3k. These Timber Wolves also kill for fun and do not eat all of what they kill. There are reports from the Missourri Breaks CMR that there is even a pack of large wolves that EXCLUSIVELY go after large mature bulls just for sport.
Several local economies taht once thrived from the income generated by hunting have just been destroyed due to the rapid decline in elk numbers from wolf predation with Gardiner Montana being hit the hardest. Many local cattle ranchers have also had their cattle herd decimated by these wolves. The economic impact is REAL and HUGE!.
Perhaps THE WORST thing about this whole re-introduction is the suffering brought on to the wolves and the deer and elk due to man's biased,emotional and opinionated rationale involved with this program. It's not the wolves fault, they are just doing what wolves do naturally. The propblem is HOW this program was implemented with lies, faulty data, and coverups. I am not advocating a complete genocide like in the past, but their population needs to be seriously downsized and controlled and a mass de-worming campaign needs to be implemented.
There is a locally made documentary that lays it ALL out in plain easy to understand terms. It is called "Crying Wolf Movie" and can be seen at www.cryingwolfmovie.com. I guarantee that after watching this FACTUAL documentary, you WILL have adifferent opinion on thes illegal wolves.

Wolves are beautiful animals. Wolves are also very dangerous predators.

Yes I understand how they fit into the food chain and balance of nature.

I suggest those that wish for their return go back and read the Little House books. Read about Pa standing guard at the door all night keeping the wolves out. Read about how the wolves are smart enough to watch for Ma and Pa to leave and then moving in on the hunt for the defenseless children.

Without control they multiply quickly and there is absolutely nothing cute and fuzzy about a hungry wolf in the wild... or on the edges of suburbia.

I've seen them while I was out hunting and they are huge. You do not want wolves in your area. That's why there's the saying, "SSS". Shoot, shovel and shutup.

I also do not give more value to one animal over another based on looks or perceived intelligence, so all of those complaining about wolves being killed better well be vegetarians (and not own anything made of leather - like belts or shoes) or you are nothing but hypocrites.

Originally posted by parsecdude
You wolf lovers have ALL been mis-lead and LIED to about the wolf re-introduction program. I live here in Montana about 60 miles from Yellowstone where they were first re-introduced and have seen FIRST HAND how these wolves were improperly re-introduced, what they are doing to our once outstanding elk herd, some of the local economies and how the "wolf people" INTENTIONALLY maipulated the data to promote this agenda. LET ME EXPLAIN BEFORE YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS! THESE ARE THE FACTS-NO BS.

Totally...

Anything big enough to take down elk has no problem with humans. For those of you not familiar with elk, cows can easily reach 500bs. They are BIG animals that are hard to kill.

These folks are lying too as to how far they have already spread. I've had eyes on in parts of Oregon where they are not supposed to be yet.

I have no problem with them, however when I go to my camp in the winter and find about 20 deer all slaughtered in one small area it tends to bother me. No they didn't eat any of them, yes they kill just to kill. It's easy to say you want them back when they aren't over populated and start killing your dogs and cats. The local DNR will tell you to buy a mule to protect your livestock. From what I hear a mule will beat wolves senseless.

The wolves are making a comeback.

Here are the issues IMO.

Cattle ranchers...yes they lose cattle, but then again they graze thier cattle on government land for free.

Deer populations...they are out of wack in the US. In Wisconsin the deer population suffers from "Mad Deer Disease"...this is in part because the genetic pool is no longer culled by wolves the way the natural system designed it. When wolves were prevalent in WI and MI and the northern states, they would prey on the weakest and diseased, absent a large predator the deer population grows in bursts and diseased animals survive and spread disease. Hunters like to bag the big healthy deer, wolves take down the weakest..the natural system is messed up absent wolves.

Wolves are spectacular animals...I have a friend in the UP of Michigan that woke up to see a pack of wolves take down a deer in the middle of the frozen lake out his back window. He hadn't seen the wolves before. He thought it was an extraordinary sight and felt lucky to be able to watch it...unfortunately most people are near giddy up there for a chance to shoot a wolf. They actually get angry if someone even mentions they saw a wolf and didn't shoot.

Wolves do not attack people...psuedo-domesticated wolf/dog hybrids sometimes do.

Wolves are mankinds longest allie. No other creature has been a friend to man as long as the wolf. Anthropoligists explain the relationship this way...

Men used to leave thier village/encampment to hunt large game.

Wolves discovered that they could eat the leftovers after the hunters took the easy meat.

Eventually wolves started to work with men, rustling large game toward the hunters, knowing they would get the left-overs.

At some point the relationship evolved to wolves comming into camps and bonding with people, hunting by day, sleeping with the people by night and humans started breeding the wolves with different abilities...all domestic dogs are descended from wolves.

No other creature on the planet has as long and sacred a bond with humans as wolves.

I get that ranchers lose cattle...and cattle are money...but there are policies of re-imbursement, ways to protect the cattle and those ranchers are getting a free ride grazing the cattle on government lands to begin with. No more shooting wolves...mad deer disease and other diseases...explodong deer populations...we need the wolve, just like nature intended it.

Just my 2 cents.

Living With Wolves

reply to post by VoidHawk


S&F watching on Boobtube
not in HD BBC only has clips..


on a side note
I'm outside of DC 30mins.
and we've had sightings of coyotes
here in suburban VA

hide your small dog
hide your wife

reply to post by Indigo5


Let's not generalize here. I live in the UP. I can tell you that your assumption that everyone wants to kill them is false. One reason a lot of people get angry with wolves is because they can, and sometimes do, decimate an entire area of forest. When there aren't anymore deer to eat what do they kill? Coyotes, rabbits, even beaver and anything else they can run down. It's not that I hate wolves and want them all dead, but sometimes it's depressing to see them come through an area and basically murder everything running around. I'm not expert by any means, but I have seen what a local pack can do first hand.

Why is it so important for me to flag this thread? Is it going to make a difference in saving all the wolves from extinction? Very well put together thread. Just don’t ask people to flag. Let people decide that on their own…

reply to post by VoidHawk


Dear VoidHawk,
I love wolves as an animal, they look amazing etc.. The program is indeed quite good.

However, let's be a little realistic here. HUMANS NEED HELP!!!

I'm not giving a penny or lifting a finger to help anything or anyone that isn't me or my immediate family. Fark the rest of the world, sorry but I had to say it. I know fully well it is selfish, I know it's not right, I know I should show more empathy, but the realistic point is I simply can't because life is bad enough without having to think/donate/concentrate on other or others.

T

In the 80s, I used to go camping and canoeing near Ely, Minnesota. There is a captive wolf pack at a center in Ely. We would howl and the wolves would answer us. One night, we heard a wild wolf ( I think it was a timber wolf) off in the distance. Its call was different than the captive wolves. It was incredible.
If anyone's interested, I found a youtube video of a wolf howling that sounds exactly like the one we heard.

The second howl, which begins at the 10-11 second mark is the one.

reply to post by VoidHawk


S & F

Now read my location.

Thems is the big bosses and the large corporations run not only America now but the world.

The cattle industry are, next to bankers, energy and pharmaceutical companies, some of the biggest and strongest lobbyists and "campaign contributors - thus they have bought our government and now run it primarily, not "The People".

As far as wolves, I was lucky enough to meet one back about 48 years ago in the wild. No, he didn't rip me apart, bare his teeth or growl at me............he wagged his tail (yes just like a dog) and the forest ranger later while almost having a coronary told me he was a Timber Wolf. Almost had a stoke when he came across me (little kid) giving this big guy a good scratching - his fur was luxuriously beautiful and soft.

The wolf was a lot bigger then me, I was around 11? and quite thin..........he was double my weight, very big guy. Laid down and wanted me to rub his tummy.

My girlfriend says this was my Totem Animal (she is a Native American).

He licked my hand and looked into my eyes. His eyes were amber and the minute I looked into his eyes, I knew he wasn't just a big Husky type dog.

The cattlemen will get their way - beef, sheep and pigs are BIG BUSINESS.

We slaughter and eat millions of domestic animals a day, every day. And yes I know what I am talking about because I use to work for a service TPA Firm that did the WC Insurance for these companies and we're talking millions of domestic "meat" animals each day........meat is big business.

As long as we support eating meat, you support this industry and as long as you support this industry, you support their Big S lawyers and "campaign" (bribes) in DC.

No, I no longer eat meat of any kind. When I did eat chicken we ordered from a organic farm in our state that employed electrical fencing..............put up a good electric fence period, problem solved. But that costs the costs of "profit".

The one I met was truly a smart, noble creature. They need a big, really big protected area where there is the normal ecological balance in place.

Don't see it happening because people don't care about anything but themselves by and large.

Good post bringing this to the forefront.

If I were asked what was my most religious experience, it would have to be the day I bent down and petted a wolf and looked into his eyes.

BTW: Almost all dogs come from wolves.

If we loose the American Timber Wolf, or any of the wolves, we will have lost more then we realize.

We're already loosing much of our animal life on this planet.

reply to post by merkaba93


I agree

There is a danger in romanticizing the intelligence of a top-of-the-food chain predator. Yes they are beautiful animals, epscially on TV. They tend to stay away from humans, that being said I am sure they would not hesitate at unguarded children. I know that local coyote populations have been able to pick up toddlers by the head in broad daylight and try to carry them away. I am not for the extermination of wolves, but I completely understand the fear and frustration of those who lose livestock, or need to keep their kids in at night. Its a difficult thing to balance.

Our north american society was never built to accomodate living next to these animals, but this fact does not warrant an all out genocide on them. Wolves are highly intelligent, they are super intuitive. But like others have said here, they are also capable of killing for sport, much like humans do. And then there is the lone wolf, the one who gets rejected or somehow separated from the pack, a highly unpredictable animal.

If you need to see a wolf, Canada has plenty of wolves that roam in areas where few people live, along with other predators like Grizzlies. Take a vacation. Until western society has changed, introducing them next door to us will only cause problems.

I can remember driving in a blizzard in the foothills of the Canadina Rockies with my 3 yr old daughter one winter, and all of a sudden a pack of about 20 wolves came running alongside my vehicle. There was at least 3 feet of snow out there, and they had no problem keeping up. They are very large. It was then I realized that they were actually running with me, or chasing me. Why? for fun, for sport, for the hunt, who knows, but I did not have a very good feeling about them with my daughter in the back seat.

reply to post by slaine1978


You would eat me alive! Well at least you have good taste...
I know it says most wolves are shy, but I've seen some chasing deer through my town and eating them beside the highway coming into town, so there definitely needs to be more research done about that. But I must say between a wolf and a deer, I don't know witch one I'd rather walk into when walking home alone at night. They're equally dangerous and one wrong move will get you killed.

And by the way I know a lot of people who would love to "contribute" to keeping the deer population down if the wolves were to disappear.

reply to post by VoidHawk


I love em. Majestic creatures and terribly powerful. I live in the thick of the grey wolf re-introduction program. The wolves are more prolific than anyone thought they would be and I think its great. And yes if I get eaten by a wolf that is fine. Its no less than people did to the wolves over the last hundred years. Its arrogant to think people have a right to the land, we just ruin everything. We annihilate native creatures and devastate the land we murdered them on. Go Wolves! BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY!!!