The wolves need your help

reply to post by slaine1978


Another good point. Recently some brothers in Montana were tracking mountain lions and found a mountain lion kill which the animal had stashed. These guys set up trail cams to monitor the site in the hopes of filming the lion coming back to eat more. The lion did come back but investigated the cameras and the areas the men moved about and was made very nervous, and left the kill alone. That was food wasted which otherwise would have been consumed. Ultimately the human scent drove the animal away.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
By the way guys, I am going to be living this summer in this Rocky mountains near the Canadian border and I will tell you that I am far more concerned about the wolves and mountain lions than I am about bears. Everyone that expresses concern for my safety is so worried about the bears!

Seriously...worry about bears first if anything. If you fish, don't leave carcasses nearby. Lock down your garbage. Don't leave food in the car. If you see a bear calmly move away from it, don't stop for pics, they are only cute until they charge. It's unlikely you will have any issue with animals if you are smart about it, but wolves and mountain lions aren't what you should be worried about.

reply to post by redhorse


im perfectly sane just have a diffrent view point than you.
and background.

reply to post by Indigo5


Thanks. I have spent time in bear and cougar territory, but those were black bears and not many cats.I have only limited time around wolves and grizzlies, but am looking forward to learning more things about the earth which cannot be learned in classrooms or internet forums.

Originally posted by jeantherapy

You have a good point but at the end of the day we are talking about buying and selling live creatures.

Not always. Ever hear of save-a-pet?

Originally posted by jeantherapy
Being everyday ashamed to be a human, I cannot put my life above that of any other creature in terms of value to the earth.

In the midst of your self loathing, you might explore the question...if you are not "above any other creature" than are you not part of the natural kingdom as well? Are not our rituals and practices and ponderings the fancy behavior of just another animal in the kingdom? Why the self loathing? Does not the lion lion rule his pride and kill for survival?

We are part of the cycle and in that context your "shame" makes no sense. When we exterminate a species it serves niether mankind nor nature well. We are always at our best when surrounded by nature and reminded of our place. That said..all of our good and evil deeds as a species still fall under the natural order.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
I do not believe we understand how other animals think, either, so I am not prepared to say that domesticated animals love their lifestyles. Some do, but then again there are housecats that will bolt out the door 100% of the time.

With pets it is not knowing what they think, it is an understanding at the natural level. I have a Lab that knows what I want her to do before I ask. I have reached a point where I can simply look at her without saying the command and she will do what I am thinking. Much love there...no slave.

And by the way...a housecat bolting out the door? My kids do the same thing...and both the cat and child comes back. Wanting to be outside isn't the same as being a captive.

reply to post by jeantherapy


hang you food in a bag from a tree out of reach of a bear while your away from camp
and make sure u have a fire most wild animals includeing bears are scared of fire an will avoid it.

reply to post by Indigo5


I understand that. I never said we should kill all the wolves, or that I hate them. I just wish you would entertain the thought that along with everything else, balance is needed. I feed a lot of deer through the winter, I haven't needed to much lately because of the mild winters. Most of those that I helped before were slaughtered. Is it nature? Yes. However, even wolf populations I believe to be kept in check. Yes wolves have been around for a long time, however nature is always evolving and it always finds a way. If that weren't the case we would still have dinosaurs running around.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Thanks. I have spent time in bear and cougar territory, but those were black bears and not many cats.I have only limited time around wolves and grizzlies, but am looking forward to learning more things about the earth which cannot be learned in classrooms or internet forums.

A mountain lion encounter is rare, but know that they instinctually are triggered by running...as are most big predators. Mountain lions only go after smaller people...small women and kids. If you are taller then likely no worries. Whatever you do if you bump into a mountain lion...don't crouch down or sprint away. Walk slowly and confidently (upright) away with your eyes on the cat. Attacks are extremely rare.

Biggest thing I can tell you if you are going to spend time in the woods up there...Secure your food...not in cars...and fish is candy to bears and they can smell it form miles. Dispose of it far away from cabin or camp. Most places will have locked dumpster far away from where you sleep.

Originally posted by redhorse

Originally posted by slaine1978
reply to post by redhorse

 

if i was in the us i would get a nice L115A3 rifle and go hunting
the wolf murderers

might sound a bit extreme to you but i value the wolves more
than the people wanting them dead.

Please get the help you need before you hurt someone. You are not sane.

I'm obligated to second Redhorse here. Passion for the wild things is good, but that post sounds unstable. If you value nature it would be good to remember that we are nature too.

reply to post by Indigo5


Ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome? I believe this explains pet behavior as well as human captive behavior. And I don't have any deep rooted loathing of myself, I said I was ashamed to be part of a group known as "human civilization", a group which I believe is intelligent enough to be the guardians of the Earth, rather than the defilers we have become.

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I understand that. I never said we should kill all the wolves, or that I hate them. I just wish you would entertain the thought that along with everything else, balance is needed. I feed a lot of deer through the winter, I haven't needed to much lately because of the mild winters. Most of those that I helped before were slaughtered. Is it nature? Yes. However, even wolf populations I believe to be kept in check. Yes wolves have been around for a long time, however nature is always evolving and it always finds a way. If that weren't the case we would still have dinosaurs running around.

OK. I would comment though that often what "we" see as balance is not what nature sees as the best balance. While we might favor a deer or bunny...nature has it's own balance. Lions are magnificient...they also will kill and eat young wildabeast etc. which is hard for "us" to watch, but just as nature intended it.

The wolves will find balance...and I am sure part of that balance will be learning to avoid places they get shot at...they are smart creatures. I have no tolerance though for those that call for extermination or those that are incapable of appreciating the wolf or other wild creatures. I learned long ago to appreciate equally both prey and predator even when one is mauling and eating the other. You have to find the lion majestic both when it is posing or nurturing it's young as well as when it is killing another creature.

I have no issue with those that hunt for utility, we are part of the natural cycle after all. I have no tolerance for those that would shoot a wolf for sport, intolerance or ignorance.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by redhorse

Originally posted by slaine1978
reply to post by redhorse

 

if i was in the us i would get a nice L115A3 rifle and go hunting
the wolf murderers

might sound a bit extreme to you but i value the wolves more
than the people wanting them dead.

Please get the help you need before you hurt someone. You are not sane.

I'm obligated to second Redhorse here. Passion for the wild things is good, but that post sounds unstable. If you value nature it would be good to remember that we are nature too.

I agree also. Remember that nature can be a nasty and vicious thing also. It's not just a trait humans possess.

I'm sorry to all the kind wolf/animal/nature loveing people in this thread
for some of my comments.
its just the anti wolf people in the video's and some of the anti wolf people on this thread
are makein me realy realy angry.
this is my last comment in this thread.
i cant listen to there bs anymore.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by redhorse

Originally posted by slaine1978
reply to post by redhorse

 

if i was in the us i would get a nice L115A3 rifle and go hunting
the wolf murderers

might sound a bit extreme to you but i value the wolves more
than the people wanting them dead.

Please get the help you need before you hurt someone. You are not sane.

I'm obligated to second Redhorse here. Passion for the wild things is good, but that post sounds unstable. If you value nature it would be good to remember that we are nature too.

Target Monsanto employees, otherwise these bloodthirsty man eating wolves might get sick from eating GMO tainted human meat!

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome? I believe this explains pet behavior as well as human captive behavior. And I don't have any deep rooted loathing of myself, I said I was ashamed to be part of a group known as "human civilization", a group which I believe is intelligent enough to be the guardians of the Earth, rather than the defilers we have become.

OK...

(1) Stockholm Syndrome..on the heals of your last post saying that you have no idea how animals think, you are now diagnosing a psychological condition?

(2) Human civilization? To nature we are fancy ants and subject to it. Anyone that has survived a hurricaine, tornado or tsunami will tell you the same.

(3) Guardians of the earth? No. The earth was fine before us and will be fine after we are gone. It has survived much worse than humans. I am a fan of the envirornment and the wild because it effects our quality of life as a species, but the earth thinks in terms of millions of years and will shake us off like a bad cold if needs to. I worry about "us" not "the earth" and in that context I am an envirornmentalist.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I understand that. I never said we should kill all the wolves, or that I hate them. I just wish you would entertain the thought that along with everything else, balance is needed. I feed a lot of deer through the winter, I haven't needed to much lately because of the mild winters. Most of those that I helped before were slaughtered. Is it nature? Yes. However, even wolf populations I believe to be kept in check. Yes wolves have been around for a long time, however nature is always evolving and it always finds a way. If that weren't the case we would still have dinosaurs running around.

OK. I would comment though that often what "we" see as balance is not what nature sees as the best balance. While we might favor a deer or bunny...nature has it's own balance. Lions are magnificient...they also will kill and eat young wildabeast etc. which is hard for "us" to watch, but just as nature intended it.

The wolves will find balance...and I am sure part of that balance will be learning to avoid places they get shot at...they are smart creatures. I have no tolerance though for those that call for extermination or those that are incapable of appreciating the wolf or other wild creatures. I learned long ago to appreciate equally both prey and predator even when one is mauling and eating the other. You have to find the lion majestic both when it is posing or nurturing it's young as well as when it is killing another creature.

I have no issue with those that hunt for utility, we are part of the natural cycle after all. I have no tolerance for those that would shoot a wolf for sport, intolerance or ignorance.

I agree we shouldn't be involved in nature, but we are, and there is no sense in throwing our hands up and dodging it all now. In a perfect world we could be hands off and leave these balances be. However, our population grew, housing expanded, and we took over lands they used to roam. Is it a sham? Yes, it is, but we have to control it now.

Like you I have no patience for people who kill animals for no reason, other than their sick amusement. I was told a story once involving meat hooks and wolves, it was nasty trust me. I promptly reamed the guy out and told him if I found out he was actually doing it that I would be contacting the local conservation officers. I will tell you the same thing I told him, that wolves are just doing what they were born to do, it's our job to find a balance. For instance, farmers can buy mules that apparently hate canines and will do everything in their power to keep them away from livestock. It's a perfect situation, wolf doesn't get killed and neither does livestock.

reply to post by Covertblack


I agree mostly. I think that as a species, the more we stay to the center lane...closer to the balance that nature demonstrates for us..the better/healthier/happier we are as a species. I also think that arrogance is a disease when it comes to our interaction with our natural world and when we assume we know better than nature, sh*7 usually hits the fan in months or years and then we are left trying to fix a problem we created and the fix usually creates another problem etc. And I believe all of that is relevant to our happiness as a species, not nature..nature is supreme to us. We like to believe we are smarter, more supreme than nature...or that "God" thinks we are special creatures...and then a Tsunamie, tornado or Hurricaine strikes and washes us away like an ant hill in the rain. Our interactions with nature and all of it's creatures should always begin with respect and appreciation vs. arrogance or conciet. And in the end how we manage that relationship has to do with "our" happines as a species. Nature doesn't care about time and has no specific love of people, we can very easily make ourselves extinct and 'nature" would be fine in a blink of an eye.

Originally posted by slaine1978
I'm sorry to all the kind wolf/animal/nature loveing people in this thread
for some of my comments.
its just the anti wolf people in the video's and some of the anti wolf people on this thread
are makein me realy realy angry.
this is my last comment in this thread.
i cant listen to there bs anymore.

It's cool you love wolves. Keep it up. But keep your emotional balance as well. Your unchecked passion does your cause more ill than good. Starred you for acknowledging the less than thought out post.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Covertblack

 

I agree mostly. I think that as a species, the more we stay to the center lane...closer to the balance that nature demonstrates for us..the better/healthier/happier we are as a species. I also think that arrogance is a disease when it comes to our interaction with our natural world and when we assume we know better than nature, sh*7 usually hits the fan in months or years and then we are left trying to fix a problem we created and the fix usually creates another problem etc. And I believe all of that is relevant to our happiness as a species, not nature..nature is supreme to us. We like to believe we are smarter, more supreme than nature...or that "God" thinks we are special creatures...and then a Tsunamie, tornado or Hurricaine strikes and washes us away like an ant hill in the rain. Our interactions with nature and all of it's creatures should always begin with respect and appreciation vs. arrogance or conciet. And in the end how we manage that relationship has to do with "our" happines as a species. Nature doesn't care about time and has no specific love of people, we can very easily make ourselves extinct and 'nature" would be fine in a blink of an eye.

Nature calls the shots. Who knows, if and when we go extinct I am sure wolves would rule again.

Originally posted by Indigo5


(3) Guardians of the earth? No. The earth was fine before us and will be fine after we are gone. It has survived much worse than humans. I am a fan of the envirornment and the wild because it effects our quality of life as a species, but the earth thinks in terms of millions of years and will shake us off like a bad cold if needs to. I worry about "us" not "the earth" and in that context I am an envirornmentalist.

edit on 4-5-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

So this excuses the fact that humans are not living up to their potential? And that this knowledge should not bother intelligent people? It's one thing for humans to inflict suffering on themselves and each other but to me it's a different matter entirely to force suffering on other species that aren't equipped to understand our behavior or to defend against it.