The wolves need your help

Originally posted by jeantherapy

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by Jagermeister

That's not really the point. They are still animals at the end of the day. If they are a threat to humanity then we have the right to control them as the top species on this planet. But I would never want a beautiful species like that wiped out.

Bees kill more people than wolves...Lightening strikes kill more people than wolves..etc. etc.

Thank you. I don't know if I want to laugh or cry at the stupidity of the idea that wolves could be a threat to humanity. They may be a threat to small groups of unarmed humans in the mountains, but they are perfectly content eating things which are not humans and living on lands which are not inhabited by humans, only they aren't being left much choice.

Then leave them alone. What do you want me to say? That I support wolf rights over human rights? If a pack of wolves attack human they need to be put down.

"In Poland, for example, the animal was once hunted, but strict conservation laws made it illegal to kill a wolf. As a consequence, the wolf population increased and the farmers were losing animals to wolf predation. When a Polish farmer contacted him, asking for help in solving his problem with wolves, Ellis accepted the challenge. He believed he had a solution.

Taking a sabbatical from the wild-life preserve and from his pack, he traveled to Poland and installed his wolf-howl audio equipment on the farmer's land. Periodically, the recording switched on to announce the territorial claims of his non-existent wolf pack. It worked. Three weeks passed without a single loss."

This could be tried here in the US, but the fact is the rednecks would rather shoot something than try to outsmart it.
This is the whole article

I dont suppose you provided information where they introduced non indigenous wolves into the Idaho population , that are much larger and much more aggressive then the wolves that were there naturally....


I also guess you wont link any information to the fact that these populations of non native wolves are having record growth through out the pacific north west, and decimating native herds of wildlife.....

Not only that, they arent just killing for food, they are finding bodies of animals that they are just killing for sport..

Im all for conservation , however im not in favor of just saving something because someone thinks its majestic....

Coming from a native american background i totally understand peoples fascination......but you cannot introduce non native species like this and have them kill off other species and upset the balance that is there.....

These wolf packs now are at record numbers up in the PNW, and also the sizes of the packs are of huge proportions......

It needs to be taken under control, and i see nothing wrong with seasonal hunting to keep the numbers manageable......

Elk, Moose, Dear, and other wildlife have just as much right to exist in healthy numbers as wolves do, ESPECIALLY over wolf species that are not from that area........

Do not let your "ooh ahhh " reaction over ride logic

Originally posted by pheonix358
Humans are the most arrogant species alive.

Wolves need to be protected. When you consider than in times gone by, a dog and a child with a big stick were sufficient to protect a flock from wolves you have to consider and judge our big brave hunters that are afraid of a wolf.

Take their guns away and let them go one on one with a wolf. Oh, wait, yea, that will not work. A wolf would avoid the contact!

So all you big brave hunters/murderers, what do you say to that?? after all, we know that is the truth.

Nice post pheonix358, wish I'd thought of it.

reply to post by VoidHawk


I say let's conserve all types of animals, not one type that you have a passion for.

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

I say let's conserve all types of animals, not one type that you have a passion for.

The first step is to stop turning the Earth into a parking lot. The second is to stop poisoning the water supply. Glad you are on board sir.

Logic does not apply here.
Its either the wolves or the men, both cannot coexist, for the numerous reasons discussed in this same thread, we, the humans took over their land, we demand profit, sport and leisure, we do not like to be threatened, nor do we enjoy feeling unsafe in our "own backyards".

But the truth is, we do not own the land, when the last one of us dies, the land will still be here, we have allowed parts of the world to be in an uneasy balance, we demand everything and give "them" nothing in return, I´m afraid the wolves and the men wont get along any time soon, back in the days when we were the minority they kept us in check, now its the other way around, add the mindset of the land owner and some guns, and you have your equation complete, the result: extinction, for them, and eventually for us.

All species have had their chance in this world, we either adapt or we perish, It saddens me I love the brother wolf as well, but saddens me even deeper that I cant say I love my brother man as much, but don't worry OP, our chances will get slimmer and slimmer and we too one day will be hunted down and be strangers in our "own backyards"...

There is no hope for the wolves unless we learn that we are part of the same boat, sadly only in our death beds do we get glimpses of the truth, the day will come, soon.

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

I say let's conserve all types of animals, not one type that you have a passion for.

I agree, and the best way to do that is to allow nature to run its course in a natural way. The wolves I posted about have NOT been reintroduced as many posters have assumed, they are making their own way back. Half of them have already been shot and this is such a shame. If you watch the vids in the op you'll see that ALL creatures benefit when their is a natural wolf population.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

I say let's conserve all types of animals, not one type that you have a passion for.

I agree, and the best way to do that is to allow nature to run its course in a natural way. The wolves I posted about have NOT been reintroduced as many posters have assumed, they are making their own way back. Half of them have already been shot and this is such a shame. If you watch the vids in the op you'll see that ALL creatures benefit when their is a natural wolf population.

The problem is that in some areas they are being reintroduced. Like I said before, the DNR tried to reintroduce Moose back to Michigan, and so far it has been mildly effective at best. The best place in Michigan for wolves to be is Isle Royal, it's an island in the middle of Lake Superior that has a wolf and moose population that keep each other in check.

The island is well known among ecologists as the site of a long-term study of a predator-prey system, between moose and eastern timber wolves. There is a cyclical relationship between the two animals: as the moose increase in population, the wolves do also. Eventually, the wolves kill too many moose and begin to starve/lower reproductive rates. However, the introduction of canine parvovirus by a guest's (illegal) dog to the wolf population led to steep declines in the early 1980s. Another concern is the gradual aging of the ecosystems on Isle Royale. The boreal forest is maturing, leading to a decrease in the types of plants most favored by moose. Park management suppresses the natural fire-cycle which would otherwise renew sections of habitat to be more favorable for moose.

-en.wikipedia.org...


At Isle Royal we have a small area that supports such habits. If too many moose are killed the wolves starve, however in other areas instead of starving they kill anything else they can catch. The point I am trying to make is that we have to be very careful about introducing anything that does not naturally reoccur.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by Covertblack
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

I say let's conserve all types of animals, not one type that you have a passion for.

I agree, and the best way to do that is to allow nature to run its course in a natural way. The wolves I posted about have NOT been reintroduced as many posters have assumed, they are making their own way back. Half of them have already been shot and this is such a shame. If you watch the vids in the op you'll see that ALL creatures benefit when their is a natural wolf population.

Really?

Adolescent members from packs of Mackenzie Valley wolves in Alberta, Canada were tranquilized and carted down to the recovery zones later that week, but a last minute court order delayed the planned releases.

The stay came from an appellate court in Denver and was instigated by the Wyoming Farm Bureau. After spending an additional 36 hours in transport cages inside the recovery zones, the wolves were finally released following official judicial sanction.
Yellowstone’s wolves stayed in acclimation pens for two more months before being released into the wild. Idaho’s wolves, conversely, were given a hard release. A total of 66 wolves were released to the two areas in this manner in January 1995 and January 1996
2005 estimates of wolf populations in the two recovery zones reflect the success the species has had in both areas:
Greater Yellowstone Area: 325
Central Idaho: 565

Do your research!

reply to post by VoidHawk


These packs from canada didnt establish foothold territories in Idaho, because the NATIVE idaho wolves, who hunt the area, know HOW to hunt the area to support their needs (like any animal indigenous to its area) Kept them out of their territories......

These wolves......that were introduced, were NOT native........you cannot ignore facts

You dont choose what you "save" on an emotional or "spiritual" response, and damn the consequences...

Not only that, they didnt even save the wolf species native to those areas in the first place!

It seems to me to be less about conversation and more about claiming some sort of moral superiority because they "saved" something......I guess the other wildlife in that area are just SOL eh?

Thank you for this thread. I will one day watch and take photos of wolves in the wild... they are among the most amazing creatures that have ever walked the earth.

People hope for crap like "alien contact" but as long as we allow genocide upon these sentient beings we deserve no contact from the "civilized world". All I can hope is that we don't get annihilated by something worse than us.

Only reason farmers kill them is to save some extra $$$ and nothing else. I live in a country with wolves and there are many people with hundreds of sheep and goats who easily co exist thanks to this dog.

reply to post by SassyCat

Only reason farmers kill them is to save some extra $$$ and nothing else. I live in a country with wolves and there are many people with hundreds of sheep and goats who easily co exist thanks to this dog.

Except when its not just about saving $$$ its about saving their lively hood and being able to support their families.....

hows that dog gonna do against a pack of these


Indigenous PNW wolves were much smaller then these giants reintroduced from Canada

I'm a little bit confused...

How does flagging this thread raise awareness? Wouldn't posting it on facebook be more efficient?

Flagging this thread does nothing in terms of awareness, except make the comparative handful (many of whom don't live in the U.S.) look for a few moments and go, "Oh, that's cute, let's flag this one," and it goes no further.

Similar to watching the documentary. If you want to make a difference, form a petition. Flags are about as good as liking stuff on Facebook.

reply to post by Starchild23


I normaly agree with most of your posts but not in this case.

Face book? Wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

Flags keep a thread visible, hence please flag this thread. I've already stated the mods can remove them from my account if it bothers people.

For every flag or reply theres probably a hundred or more that simply viewed the post. If thats about accurate then so far maybe a ten thousand people have viewed the thread. Others have already stated they will add it to their face book account.

I just want the killing to stop, gotta start somwhere. What good is a petition if people dont know about it.

Great post! I too have deep respects for wolves as they are highly intelligent animals, so instead of just showing our our sympathy is there any way of actually making any difference? or are we just going to cry about it online?

Originally posted by parsecdude
Thirdly, because the population is growing out of control, our elk herd has been devastated by these huge beasts because their larger size and bigger packs make it easier for them to take down many large elk.Deer are just bonus points for them. The Yellowstone herd was once over 19k, now its down to less than 3k.

You mean this elk herd??? You see s decline in the elk population...nature sees a return to the balance before we exterminated the Predator at the top of the ecosystem.

Indeed, local industry and environmental groups battled for years over the Yellowstone and Idaho wolf reintroduction effort.

The idea of wolf reintroduction was first brought to Congress in 1966 by biologists who were concerned with the critically high elk populations in Yellowstone.

Officially, 1926 was the year the last wolves were killed within Yellowstone’s boundaries, and over the succeeding decades, populations of elk and other large prey animals had soared, and new growth vegetation suffered as a result.

This is due to ecosystem instability when keystone predators are removed.

With wolves being at the top of the food pyramid, their absence let the elk population boom out of control. Soon deciduous woody species such as upland aspen and riparian cottonwood crashed as a result of overgrazing. This affected habitat for other species as well.

Moreover, coyotes tried to fill in the niche left by wolves, but were unable to control the large ungulate populations. Booming coyote numbers, furthermore, also had a negative effect on other species, particularly the red fox. Ranchers, though, remained steadfastly opposed to reintroducing a species of animal that they considered to be analogous to a plague, citing the hardships that would ensue with the potential loss of stock caused by wolves

en.wikipedia.org...

Again...To assume that you know what is better for nature than nature itself is a fools conciet. Everytime we ef with the ecosystem thinking we know best...everything goes haywire.

Originally posted by parsecdude

These Timber Wolves also kill for fun and do not eat all of what they kill. There are reports from the Missourri Breaks CMR that there is even a pack of large wolves that EXCLUSIVELY go after large mature bulls just for sport.
Several local economies taht once thrived from the income generated by hunting have just been destroyed due to the rapid decline in elk numbers from wolf predation

What? First you falsely claim that wolves kill for fun rather than survival?

Do wolves really attack their prey just for the fun of it?

No. When they kill more than they can eat in one sitting, the pack usually comes back for second helpings

Wolves achieve a very low yield on hunting expeditions in the wild; somewhere between 4 percent and 8 percent of their attacks are successful. (Lions, by contrast, manage a kill rate of 27 percent or more when they hunt in groups.)

Consequently, wolves are opportunistic hunters. If the chance to kill prey en masse presents itself, they have been known to go after more than they can consume. But they're rarely wasteful. Hungry wolves are not above scavenging, and they often return to their kill—or another animals'—days later. They may even bury the leftovers to hide them from competitors such as wolverines. (This is probably how dogs, which are descended from wolves, got into the habit of burying bones.)

www.slate.com...

And your biggest issue with this is that sport hunters no longer have an inflated elk population to....kill for fun?

Originally posted by parsecdude

Several local economies taht once thrived from the income generated by hunting have just been destroyed due to the rapid decline in elk numbers from wolf predation

See my first link...the Elk popualtion absent the wolves has a domino effect on the entire ecosystem...both plants and animals.

This about sums it up. I think the wrong creatures are being hunted!!!!

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

Mohandas Gandhi

reply to post by truthrising2012


action.defenders.org...

reply to post by VoidHawk


Good point. I just think...well, the term "flagging" sort of restricts the available routes of awareness...I'm having a difficult time articulating my precise point, but I hope that makes sense to you.