Mohammad - a perspective

reply to post by Deetermined

What do you think that special purpose was?

I've already answered that.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Uh, the same question I asked above. Do you you think the special calling was leading to Jesus? Do you think the special calling was leading to the 12 tribes of Israel and the "chosen" people, therefore leading to the inheritance of the land that God promised Abraham? Is that the difference? What do you think Isaac's seed was called for?

Isaac led to Jesus.
Ishmael led to Mohammad.
Both were the sons of Abraham. Whats the problem here?

reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX


Interesting that you bring up John 1:19-28:

After John confesses that he's not Elijah or Christ, he says this in John 1:

23) He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Is John stating that he is a servant sent by the Lord as prophesied through ISAIAH (the prophet)?

The prophet is Isaiah. Esaias = Isaiah.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Muslims dont see any rivalry between Isaac and Ishmael. They consider them to be part of the same family.
Also, Muslims don't distinguish between Mohammad and the other possible Ishmaelite prophet, Selah and the prophets of the Israelites.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Isaac led to Jesus.
Ishmael led to Mohammad.
Both were the sons of Abraham. Whats the problem here?

The Bible doesn't say that the seed of Ishmael would be called to do anything of God, like Isaac's. It doesn't talk about the coming of a prophet named Muhammad, but it sure speaks a lot about the coming of the prophet, Jesus.

I still don't understand why Muslims put so much significance on Jesus or the Old Testament prophets, yet they refuse to believe anything that Jesus said in the New Testament or anything God said in the Old Testament, for that matter.

Even the Old Testament repeats over and over again the significance of the people of Israel belonging to God. If that's the case, why do the Muslims have such a problem with the people of Israel, specifically the Jews? Why are they constantly trying to remove them from the Middle East? Could it be Satan? Could Satan be creating a people to fight God's people for final authority over the earth?

Didn't the Bible say that Ishmael would constantly be fighting against his brothers? Why is that?

Yes, I think God had a plan for both sides and He made it clear that HIS side would win, and it's not the seed of Ishmael.

So, you're better off using the Qu'ran to make your statements about Muhammad, because Muhammad is losing big time in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

Mohammad was a sick pervert. He should've been smeared off the face of the Earth years before his message condemned so many.

If Mohammad was such a bad person... then why didn't God finish Mohammad before he established Islam? Answer me.

Was God too weak to stop Mohammad?
Or does God hate the Arabs so much that he let them become muslims so he could burn them in hell?

I'll see your absurd question and pose you this one: Why did God allow Hitler to kill 6 million Jews?

How could you possibly answer such an illogical question? Unless I or you are in direct contact with God it's impossible to know.
There won't ever be an answer to that question or yours until you or I die.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Muslims dont see any rivalry between Isaac and Ishmael. They consider them to be part of the same family.
Also, Muslims don't distinguish between Mohammad and the other possible Ishmaelite prophet, Selah and the prophets of the Israelites.

edit on 24-4-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

This right here is a lie, or muslim would believe that Yeshua is God just like christians do because Isaiah throws it right in your face, so does Daniel and Ezekiel and Jeremiah. You believe Muhammad is the only true "prophet" so much to the point you ignore the fact that Yeshua was annointed by every prophet before him and God.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

I'll see your absurd question and pose you this one: Why did God allow Hitler to kill 6 million Jews?

How could you possibly answer such an illogical question? Unless I or you are in direct contact with God it's impossible to know.
There won't ever be an answer to that question or yours until you or I die.

You failed to answer my question...
" Which other biblical prophet shamed the idolaters of Kedar and the "wilderness"??? "

Your failure to answer this simple question, proves that you hate the message of the bible... despitie knowing it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

This right here is a lie, or muslim would believe that Yeshua is God just like christians do because Isaiah throws it right in your face, so does Daniel and Ezekiel and Jeremiah.

Muslims go by the words of the Koran. If it were mentioned, then they would have believed so.

You believe Muhammad is the only true "prophet" so much to the point you ignore the fact that Yeshua was annointed by every prophet before him and God.

The Muslims revere every single prophet from the Old Testament.

Also, Muslims agree with you Chrisitians that Jesus was the Messiah.
Believe it or not, Muslims don't know call anybody else....apart from Jesus, "the Messiah."

Muslims are the only ones apart from Christians who accept Jesus as the "Messiah" (Isa al-Masih)
Yet, you hate this fact. Why?

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Denying that Isaiah 42 points to Mohammad does you no good. If the bible is a book of prophecies, then it simply foretells of things to come. Whether you like those things or not is irrelevant. The bible is not your own personal magic mirror that speaks what YOU like to hear.

Obviously, you consider the Bible to be your own personal magic mirror because I already showed how
Isaiah 42:2-3 clearly shows that Muhammad is not the "servant" that this chapter is talking about.

Isaiah 42:2-3

2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

In order to understand more fully, maybe we need to back it up to Isaiah 41 to see if it gives us any other hints as to who this "servant" will be.

Isaiah 41

7) So the carpenter encouraged the goldsmith, and he that smootheth with the hammer him that smote the anvil, saying, It is ready for the sodering: and he fastened it with nails, that it should not be moved.

8) But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

9) Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

Once again, it all leads to the coming of Jesus, not Muhammad.

Not just those, but i have some listed in my Jesus is Yahweh thread.

Jeremiah 23:5-6

5“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:

THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

This next one Isaiah says the Savior is God, who is hiding himself.

Isaiah 45: 14-15

14 Thus says Yahweh:“The labor of Egypt and merchandise of Cush And of the Sabeans, men of stature,Shall come over to you, and they shall be yours;They shall walk behind you,They shall come over in chains; And they shall bow down to you.They will make supplication to you, saying, ‘Surely God is in you, And there is no other;There is no other God.’”15 Truly You are God, who hide Yourself, O God of Israel, the Savior!

Here's Zecharia and God says the jews pierced him, but from God's perspective this has already happened, because that is how he sees things. Yeshua sees everything.

Zecharia 12:10-14

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.

Here it is again, Yeshua the Savior of the world. God is the Savior, Yeshua is the Savior

John 4: 39-42

39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.

42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

@ Skorpion

So why are you so stuck on Muhammad, when your God is Yeshua? Or he would be if you surrendered to him, right now something else is your God...that black rock glued to the Ka'aba.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You are still avoiding a question I asked...

Which other biblical character utterly vanquished idolatory among the people of Kedar and the "wilderness"?

Also....

So why are you so stuck on Muhammad, when your God is Yeshua?

My God is not Jesus....My God is the one who Jesus prayed to. According to your own Bible.

From what history tells us, only Mohammad could have fulfilled Isaiah 42 prophecy about the shaming of idolaters. Why do you deny it.

Like I mentioned earlier, the bible prophesies what it has to.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You failed to answer my question... " Which other biblical prophet shamed the idolaters of Kedar and the "wilderness"??? " Your failure to answer this simple question, proves that you hate the message of the bible... despitie knowing it.

I hate the Bible? Dude you sound like a child. This garralous rhetoric isn't making me take you anymore seriously.

"They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods." Isiah 42:17

We can see here Isiah is addressing the gentiles. He says they will be ashamed of their idolaraty. I interpret this to mean that, once the people realize that Jesus was the son of God, and that God is the only true god they should feel foolish for once putting faith in graven images.

After Jesus's death, Christianity spread along the trade routes into every part of the Middle East. Bedouin tribes and merchants traveling to places like Jerusalem picked up the faith and spread it to the people of the desert; making peaceful converts out of once idolarators. They willfully renounced their ways, realizing their foolishness, thus feeling shame.

Mohammad on the other hand militantly converted a large chunk of Saudi Arabia. These people weren't HAPPY they got their asses kicked and houses destroyed. Shame is concomittant with guilt....What did these people have to feel guilty about? If somebody puts a sword to your throat your'e going to feel sorry for worshiping another god?

You have SUBJUGATION vs. Honest to God faith.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If Mohammad was such a bad person... then why didn't God finish Mohammad before he established Islam?

You just don't seem to get it.....it was the actions and decisions of 'men' that determined events in Arabia and the development of Islam.

Why didn't 'God' finish Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot or the countless others who have committed horrific acts etc?

Answer me.

Pretty ironic considering you've been very reluctant to answer any questions I have raised and have downright ignored the fact that this whole thread is based on a premiss that isn't a part of either Islamic or Christian conventional and traditional beliefs.

Was God too weak to stop Mohammad?

Maybe 'God' just lets 'man' make his own choices?
Or maybe 'he' doesn't care?
Or maybe 'he' isn't even there at all?
Possibly even it's all part of some great scheme of 'his' that none of us can comprehend?

One things for certain, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's completely and utterly irrelevant.
But that's just my considered opinion.

Or does God hate the Arabs so much that he let them become muslims so he could burn them in hell?

And what sort of perverse 'God' would that be?
Certainly not one worthy of devotion and adulation.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

" Which other biblical prophet shamed the idolaters of Kedar and the "wilderness"??? "

I answered your question. No prophet shamed the idolaters of Kedar and the wilderness. Mohammad was himself an idolater.

The whole concept of a middle prophet is a Zoroastrian concept, and Mithra would be only true Middle Prophet.

The ancient Israelis believed that there were many gods, they just thought that their god was the one true god.

What most Christians believe is the watered down version of Christ's teachings.

A true Christian does not bow to a cross, or any saints, or any type of symbolism, which are all idols of different brands. When they communicate with God, they do so directly, through their heart. They don't need to face in the direction of some symbol.

If you have to put a sword or a pistol to someones head to worship your god, then he is not God. This is the difference between Islam and Christianity.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You are still avoiding a question I asked...

Which other biblical character utterly vanquished idolatory among the people of Kedar and the "wilderness"?

Also....

So why are you so stuck on Muhammad, when your God is Yeshua?

My God is not Jesus....My God is the one who Jesus prayed to.

I hate to tell you this but Yeshua was praying to his heavenly half. God is omnipresent, which is why Yeshua sent his spirit to dwell in christians when he ascended and reclaimed his throne.

www.piney.com...

Read John 14.

You seem to get hung up on Yeshua's titles. But thats ok, because you don't belong to God or you would know who your Father is.

John 14:15-18

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jeremiah 7:23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.

If your God isn't Yeshua then it's Satan. If you do not serve one then you serve the other.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

We can see here Isiah is addressing the gentiles. He says they will be ashamed of their idolaraty. I interpret this to mean that, once the people realize that Jesus was the son of God, and that God is the only true god they should feel foolish for once putting faith in graven images.

Isaiah was also speaking about Kedar and the wilderness.
He writes about how idolaters would be shamed...which is exactly what happened after Mohammads arrival.

After Jesus's death, Christianity spread along the trade routes into every part of the Middle East. Bedouin tribes and merchants traveling to places like Jerusalem picked up the faith and spread it to the people of the desert; making peaceful converts out of once idolarators. They willfully renounced their ways, realizing their foolishness, thus feeling shame.

What about the idolatry which persisted for more than 500 years?
Christiaity failed to end the idolatery in Arabia...and therefore failed to fulfill the prophecy.

Only Mohammad who put an end to idolatry and shamed the idolaters.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
If you have to put a sword or a pistol to someones head to worship your god, then he is not God. This is the difference between Islam and Christianity.

Amen, and thank Yeshua for that.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

We can see here Isiah is addressing the gentiles. He says they will be ashamed of their idolaraty. I interpret this to mean that, once the people realize that Jesus was the son of God, and that God is the only true god they should feel foolish for once putting faith in graven images.

Isaiah was also speaking about Kedar and the wilderness.
He writes about how idolaters would be shamed...which is exactly what happened after Mohammads arrival.

After Jesus's death, Christianity spread along the trade routes into every part of the Middle East. Bedouin tribes and merchants traveling to places like Jerusalem picked up the faith and spread it to the people of the desert; making peaceful converts out of once idolarators. They willfully renounced their ways, realizing their foolishness, thus feeling shame.

What about the idolatry which persisted for more than 500 years?
Christiaity failed to end the idolatery in Arabia...and therefore failed to fulfill the prophecy.

Only Mohammad who put an end to idolatry and shamed the idolaters.

Okay then. Let me ask you this question, and be sure to answer it honestly.

If foreign men come into your city, kill all of your friends and most of your family, rapes the women before they kill them, hands you a Qu'ran and tells you that this is all Allah's idea, you're going to feel ashamed of yourself?

(Stars if you realize the absurdity of this question)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I hate to tell you this but Yeshua was praying to his heavenly half. God is omnipresent, which is why Yeshua sent his spirit to dwell in christians when he ascended and reclaimed his throne.

Theres nothing in the bibe that teaches us that Jesus was praying to "his heavenly half"....

But thats ok, because you don't belong to God or you would know who your Father is.

" you don't belong to God"

Who decides that matter? God or you?