Mohammad - a perspective

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Nowhere in the bible does it say that the non-Israelites would inherit the curse of the Israelites.

Answer.
The problem is that Jews and Israelites have been contaminating the gene pool of the middle east since the days of Moses. You don't think all the Israelites left with Moses did you? They spent a few hundred years there in Egypt. Most likely quite a few female slaves turned the heads of their slavemasters. And 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation halfbreeds most likely thought of themselves as Egyptian.

Also as time moved on the Assyrians conquered the Israelites and hauled them away as slaves. And Babylon did the same to the Jews. Only a small fraction of the former slaves went back to Israel. The rest stayed. They became Persians. And Arabs. And members of the various groups spread around the middle east.

There are no non Israelites in the middle east anymore. Not after 3 to 4 thousand years of Jews mixing and mingling with the native populations.

And there is another fly in the ointment to consider as well. The olive tree parable of Romans 11. After studying it I came to the following conclusions. The olive tree is the family tree of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel. The genetic Jews and Israelites were cut off the tree because of the curse. And as Christians are grafted into the tree. They become adopted Israelites.

Christianity is literally an adoption program. You become an adopted Israelite when you become a Christian. BUT. If you fall away from your new religion then you are cut from the tree. When you become a Christian you are also made subject to the Leviticus 26 covenant. Which means former Christians are subject to the curse as well. And this condition is binding on your children as well.

So to summarize. If you have a Jew, Israelite, or Christian in your family tree no matter how far back you are subject to the curse. So who are your ancestors?

Oh and the blue bars on the flag of Israel are not the Nile and Euphrates. They're the Atlantic and Pacific. The flag is a picture of the globe.

reply to post by ntech

There are no non Israelites in the middle east anymore. Not after 3 to 4 thousand years of Jews mixing and mingling with the native populations..

It simply means that many Jews were absorbed into the Arab peoples and other various groups....and not that other people became "jews". The people they mixing with in the middle east were with either the Ishmaelites and the people of Keturah, both people of Abraham. So DNA-wise they barely changed.

Another point to note is that Jews who became Muslim and became absorbed into Arabs/Persians, ended up accepting Jesus as the messiah. They would have never done this had they remained Jews.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 0thetrooth0

 

The Quran can not possibly be from God. Most people through out history and in the present, dont have the resources, nor money, nor time to learn Quran. You cant just tell them its the word of God and all the miracles it has and expect them to believe it. Except of course, the difference being this book has "miracles" within, but you cant show them to them...they would have to be experts in Quranic Classical Arabic..to even consider the possibiliy of this book having miracles.

I have an english version of the Koran...and its the overall message that got me interested in the first place. The miracles in the Koran are a different matter. Whether or not people are willing to give the miracles fair consideration depends on how they perceive Islam in the first place.

"Mohammed succeeded because his followers stayed true to him even when it seemed his cause was hopeless. Had they doubted and abandoned him, Mohammed would have been no more than an obscure historical footnote in the story of Mecca."

Mohammads immense success cannot be attributed to mere luck...that too because his few hundred followers stood by him. Islam, established by Mohammad 1500 years ago, stood the test of time and lasts to this day... with 1.5 billion adherents around the world. How do christians explain this?

How would you go about proving to a non Muslim that this book is in fact the verbatim word of God?

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

How would you go about proving to a non Muslim that this book is in fact the verbatim word of God?

A belief in an omnipotent God is beyond books....
its beyond showing things in a book and going "see, thats the word of God".

God exists outside of religion.
Either you believe or you dont. The books come much, much later.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 0thetrooth0

 

How would you go about proving to a non Muslim that this book is in fact the verbatim word of God?

A belief in an omnipotent God is beyond books....
its beyond showing things in a book and going "see, thats the word of God".

God exists outside of religion.
Either you believe or you dont. The books come much, much later.

edit on 6-5-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

One cant just believe in a God, there has to be some proof/evidence for his existence. If a book is shown to be the word of God, then one will have faith that a God does indeed exist and this book contains his words.

"If a god didnt exist, it would be nessesary to invent him" so yea.. I cant just believe...

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

If a book is shown to be the word of God....

How exactly do you feel a book can be objectively shown as the word of God?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I dont know,

How exactly do you feel that way about the Quran?

reply to post by Iason321

How exactly do you feel that way about the Quran?

I've read both the Koran and the Bible.... I know the bible is true in many aspects.
And my knowledge of the Bible brought me to read the Koran.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 0thetrooth0

 

If a book is shown to be the word of God....

How exactly do you feel a book can be objectively shown as the word of God?

edit on 6-5-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Well, we can't be sure sure a book is the word of God, but we can be pretty sure. Muslim apologists say Quran has scientific and linguistic miracles among other miracles. So if I would know this is indeed the case, I would be a Muslim end of story. The Muslim has to be able to show this to a non Muslim.

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

Muslim apologists say Quran has scientific and linguistic miracles among other miracles. So if I would know this is indeed the case, I would be a Muslim end of story. The Muslim has to be able to show this to a non Muslim.

Do you speak and understand the language that the Koran was originally written in?
Yes or no?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


No..

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I'm not going to learn a whole new language just so I can know if a certain book is, or is not the word of God. In that case, I should also learn the holy book of Sikhs.

?

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

I'm not going to learn a whole new language just so I can know if a certain book is, or is not the word of God. In that case, I should also learn the holy book of Sikhs.

Well, on one hand you demand evidence of the Korans miracles.... which can be understood by Arabic speakers.... and on the other, you say you are not willing to learn a language to see the "miracles" for yourself.

In that case, Im afraid you will never know....and your earlier statement of "The Quran can not possibly be from God. " is simply your own opinion.

I have a perspective on Mohammad which (probably) none of you have heard before. Years ago, I read the book A Roadmap of Time, and not only did it predict a warmer climate around the turn of the millennium, and also a cooling off after, but it projected the climate cycles back in time. The time of Jesus the Christ was a very interesting one, in that 100, 500, and 1,000 year climate cycles were all passing through the baseline at that time, from warm to cold (or cold to warm) and from wet to dry (or dry to wet). In other words, everything climate-wise was at average conditions at that time. Six hundred years later, we arrive at the time of Mohammad, and the cycles were not at any notable place. I see it as one of many things pointing to Jesus the Christ as the One to follow, and not Mohammad.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 0thetrooth0

 

I'm not going to learn a whole new language just so I can know if a certain book is, or is not the word of God. In that case, I should also learn the holy book of Sikhs.

Well, on one hand you demand evidence of the Korans miracles.... which can be understood by Arabic speakers.... and on the other, you say you are not willing to learn a language to see the "miracles" for yourself.

In that case, Im afraid you will never know....and your earlier statement of "The Quran can not possibly be from God. " is simply your own opinion.

I know of alot of quranic arabic classic knowlegdeable people who are ex muslims. So obviously quran cannot be the word of god. people who think it is, its because they want to just believe it. they have faith, if people who know the language are not muslims then that tells me its not very clear if this book is or is not the word of god..

theres no evidence for its claims. we cant see a god, jinn, hell, heaven, etc. so were already starting off on the wrong foot. all we have is this short book.. i doubt a god would just leave us with this book..

A prophet always teaches by example. For one instance, Mohammed allowed his followers four wives yet Mohammed had eleven.
His later works which should have been most wondrous was spent creating the complete “Do it yourself tribal warfare guide, this was his message. He was cursing words of hate on his deathbed.
The message he left didn’t come from my God.