America - April 19th, The Start of the Revolution - A REVISIT

reply to post by OrionStarfire


I actually agree. I just think that we should EDUCATE our people instead of trying to make them as dumb as possible so they are more manageable.

Intellect is actually more capable of damage than ignorance. That is why it must serve mankind instead of ruling it. We need smart people in charge, just not ones that are too smart for their own good.

Our version of intellect is a trickle down system of information. The very concept is counterproductive to growth as a species. It is true that there will always be have and have nots because there will always be the hard working and the lazy. I think that our options are limited to a few who promise to be the smartest with no other qualifications beyond their genetics.....pffft.

Humanity is a cornucopia of wonderful genetics who if given the chance would become titans. We just have to figure out a way of giving them the information that would empower them to live like men instead of animals.

The gods were gods because they all were capable and intelligent. If they truly want that world they should focus on making the masters instead of keeping the servants. It is harder and takes more work, but hey we are not lazy now are we?

reply to post by Cuervo


You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with this, but OK has been given the answer so many times - he simply refuses to accept it. Best just to move on.


reply to post by ColAngus


I am 23 years of age, soon to be 24.


reply to post by onthedownlow


The ideologies we fight over are false ones. We should be able to coexist with differing beliefs. The point of a democratic society is so that all beliefs and ways of life can coincide under one system, yet people continue to be persuaded to fall under a canopy of choose sides to issues. Things such as abortion, gay marriage, consumption, or what you do on your own property should not be matters left up to the state - they should be matters left up to each individual. If someone does not life a certain stance, they are free to ignore it, oppose it, and choose not to practice it - but at the very least they need to respect those who choose to embrace it.

You are right. People need to change, but I feel that with the current government in power that will never happen. They only work to enforce the old values more and more and the only way I see to reverse it is to work from the inside out. Unless you take away the laws against individual liberties, people will continue to believe that there is something wrong with individualism, and that will continue to hinder progress when it comes to individual acceptance.


reply to post by nickendres


I believe the words of Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Washington will ring on for centuries to come as well. They weren't peace keepers like Gandhi and Jesus were they?

The people in this country were tricked. They were outsmarted. I can't take responsibility because I have never voted. I never will. Not until things change. They were promised things that were never given, they were taken from when they had nothing to give. They were told there were boogey men waiting to kill them time and time again for the past 100 years and they believes it because, after all... why would our government lie to us? But soon it becomes apparent that one thing that many men desire is power, and when they have a taste of power, they will do anything to attain more power, all they way until they have all the power.

Even the first kings of man, their goal was to rule the world. Those same narcissists exist today at the upper echelons of society. Nothing has changed, just the illusion that we choose who leads, and the lies that lead us towards that direction. Revolution will kill many innocent lives, but it will be nothing compared to the amount of lives it will save from the rule that runs the world today. MILLIONS HAVE BEEN KILLED ALREADY IN THE NAME OF EMPIRE. MILLIONS. If thousands die so that millions more do not have to in the future, so that peace can finally reign supreme - then that is a price I am willing to pay, even if my life is among them.


reply to post by lordbayfin


Yes, thank you for that wise explanation. Since my logic failed there, guess nobody else needs to discuss anything anymore. Move along.

*rolls eyes*


reply to post by daynight42


It is because of people like you - the ones who come along after all the up talking and pride rousing that throw a wrench into the day. You judge and you don't even know. You have no idea who any of us are and yet you assume, you throw around labels and then you degrade us. You hate this country but you are a prime example of what is wrong with it.

For all you know we have all protested, for all you know we are all willing to fight. But what are you doing? Exactly what you are complaining about. No, even worse. Instead of complaining about the problem, you are complaining about the people who are complaining about the problem.

Things aren't going to change over night bucko, and maybe you spent one too many nights out there protesting to accomplish nothing - but that is my problem. There are people out there that no matter what happens - we are going to keep fighting because there are people here that are worth fighting for. Not only that but there are ideals and morals that are worth fighting for.

Nothing is going to make me give up on that.

The basic foundation of our Republic still has merit and is worthy of protecting and that is our Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and The Constitution.

We CAN change things without violence, but it will take time. It took time to get here and it will take time to fix it.

Here are my opinions:

1) We must get more involved in local, municipal and state elections. Municipalities make the ordinances that probably effect your day to day life more than anything.

The states...well...that is your "electoral college" votes.

2) We must have term limits on Congress. They should be able to serve no more than a President does.

3) We must remove the ability of Lobbyist and Special interest groups to contact and influence our Representatives. Government service must be downgraded to be the equivalent of "Jury Duty", not a ticket to riches. It should be something we do out of necessity and desire to serve others, not ourselves.

4) We have GOT TO remove all incumbents...good or bad...and start over. If you leave one, then that "one" has "tenure" and will "bully" the freshmen. I personally think it is time to send all Democrats and Republicans back home and focus on representatives that are straight up independent AND moderate. No average citizen is an extreme conservative or extreme liberal. Nearly all of us have moderate views...regardless f the topic....most of us tend to be more centrist and balanced and our representatives should reflect that.

If we start this year, it will take no less than two election cycles.

2012, we get ourselves a handful of Independent/moderate representatives to replace the Congressmen and Senators up for re-election and we get ourselves a centrist/independent POTUS.

2014 - Kick out whatever "Tea Party" extremist are up for relection. Replace with people that will honestly work and debate to make things move and work...gridlock must end.

2016 - If we like our 2012 centrist/independent POTUS, we vote him back in...if not, we repleace him and anyone else not pulling their weight from 2012.

2018 - We should have, by this time, removed all the cronies and rascals...if not...it's our fault.

But paramount to all of this is the above 1 thru 4. If we don't get these things through, the Corporate lobbyist and special interest groups will pwn us and our elections will become an even bigger joke and lie.

I still have hope in the wonderful dream and experiment that is Our Republic. It can be fixed. I fear a flat out revolt will end in something not so grand and not so fair. We only have to look back at history and other revolutions waged over disparity and unfairness...

The French Revolution

The Bolshevic Revolution

The Revolution of the People's Republic of China

The Cuban revolution.

And others...anytime disparity drives a revolt...it generally doesn't go as planned. Only of the French Revolution can it possibly be considered that things might possibly have gotten better for the people...the other three listed, and most others, don't work out that way.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


Thanks for the constructive criticism, but those who are intimidated by my wall of text probably won't comprehend what I have to say anyway...

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
I did not read your post because I felt exhausted just looking at it at a glance.

I just zoomed through the post. I usually make paragraphs in posts just because I was taught it is proper. I didn't know there are people who have difficulty reading what is basically a large paragraph.

When I'm typing out thoughts for myself, I use a wall of text. I'm wondering if others are unable to free flow without paragraphs. I don't see how a stream of consciousness could easily be broken up into subject variations on the fly. That is my difficulty.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


I'm not saying that responsibility should not be delegated to those who are capable to handle it, but eventually you get to those at the bottom who are to stupid to handle any form of responsibility.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky

Originally posted by OrionStarfire
reply to post by Damrod

 

Thank you, and sorry about the lack of paragraphs but I always try to cram in as much as possible to get my point across.

Very bad and ineffective strategy. I did not read your post because I felt exhausted just looking at it at a glance.

Your point will in the least be put across if broken down into paragraphs because people will actually read it!
Your current strategy looses you lots of readers, be assured. A wall of text is extremely hard to climb.

Come on now folks...I was just poking a little fun with my "wall of text" pic. (I get a laugh everytime I pull that thing out.)

You should have read it, he has good points in there. Long "walls of text" are harder for the eyes to follow (at least for me, but I'm old) so the paragraph breaks (not even formal paragraphs) are just, to me, being considerate. It gives the eyes a reference point if nothing else.

Anyway...back on topic

I don't like to think about and then have to realize that we have a section of our public incapable of rational thought yet empowered with the ability to choose leaders...but it is what it is.

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


I haven't been quite as flattered by a reply ever on ATS. I thank you for your kind words. They are much appreciated. And by all means, share as much as you like if your heart desires.


reply to post by Xaphan


Do keep your chin up. I have strong emotions for America since I was born here, but we are all brothers and sisters on this planet and we all deserve freedom and liberty regardless. I can only hope that if a revolution does start in American and freedom does return as the staple authority, it can act once again as the beacon it did for the world more than 200 years ago, provoking other countries to stand for themselves and demand their own freedoms.

Nice picture, and you have my regards and my support!



reply to post by schadenfreude


Well I would like to think that a nuclear war wouldn't even be an option after a revolution, so the launch codes would be negligible. Maybe we have them, maybe we don't. Maybe they are lost for ever. Maybe some scientist can program new ones.

The fact is, the only thing in this country that requires "launch codes" as far as I am away are nuclear ballistic missiles. The arsenal we have of non-nuclear weaponry, including trans-continental weaponry is more than enough to defend us without going nuclear. Do you honestly think that would be the only option if someone attacked us?

The fact would be, as well, that we would have the ENTIRE military at home. So if someone wants to invade us... go ahead. Not only will we have an entire military force, a pissed off police force, but a mob of just finished, angry revolutionaries, all armed, to fend off against. I don't think anyone would have the cahones are a change in high hell of doing ANYTHING.

I made a topic before anyway, that the first thing to do would be to permanently secure the border following a revolution. You can read my plans HERE (it is a bit of a lengthy read) if you would like some information as to why the plan isn't as non-feasible as you would imagine. It also accounts for continuity of government.

As far as standing up against arrests and what not - one person is not going to make a difference. One person they make an example of. Once mass people start standing up against tyranny is when a difference is made. No doubt people do need to stand up for themselves, I agree, but I believe there are some people out there that do already... you just don't hear about as much as you would like.



reply to post by sapien82


Because strikes, protests, and diplomatic action just don't work. Period.


reply to post by BIHOTZ


I believe that most soldiers are moral, good hearted people who are in it for the right reasons. However, I also believe that there are many who are in it for the paycheck, and will have no problem firing upon civilians if need be. I honestly believe though, that the former will outnumber the later in a time of need and will prevent anything like that from happening. The military is aware of the circumstance and they are just as active in "talk" as civilians are. They are just as fed up as most of the normal people.

In the end, I have no doubt that military will be on the side of the people, as they know what their oath is.


reply to post by technologicalsingularity


I do not care. I am American and I probably have a Pennsylvania Dutch dialect. I didn't really proofread my work because I didn't expect it to become quite as popular as it did. I apologize if my grammar offended you so much but I will certainly try harder next time. Maybe.

Honestly though - I think a sentence after what I am typing so if things are a little scrambled or messed up, that is why. My mind moves to fast for my fingers.


reply to post by eriktheawful


Positions voluntary to start and military would be payed via taxes (A LOT LESS than current) and trade, the same way they are paid today. They would, however, pay a lot less.

Government would be a Constitutional Republic as outlined in the Constitution.

The rich do control things, but the government props them up and caters to them by accepting bribes and lobbying. Needs to stop.

Some things to consider if a revolution were to happen today:

Who exactly is the enemy. I don't mean "what is the job title of the enemy" I mean, who are the individual human beings that must be mortally wounded?

The answer to such a question is more grim than one may think. Many of us have a general idea of who our enemy should be in a revolution situation, but if a revolution were to come about, quite a few more faces would be added to that list. The main enemy will enlist the police and other civil/government service to try and quell the uprising. The lower employees that keep the corporations and government offices running would also become obstacles in some form or another. Your neighbors or family members may be so brainwashed that they'll turn you in in an instant for even showing a hint that you're part of the revolution. The media will assure that the hypnotized masses view the revolutionaries as paranoid "tea baggers" or uneducated fools. People you once thought of as friends or neutrals, are people you may now have to kill. The media would have to be taken out first IMO. Once that stronghold is lost, that would lessen the casualties on both sides greatly.

Sadly, I don't believe many would-be revolutionaries have the determination it would take to successfully carry out an armed revolution. I think the majority would put their weapons down as soon as they walked into the first building that houses one of the face cards, because they didn't want to kill brainwashed lower-level employees who try to stick up for their masters.

If a revolution happens in our life time, understand that everyone becomes a potential target, not just some bankers in suits. If an entire revolutionary force can understand that and live by it, we may actually have a chance.

I really love how these "revolution" threads always become so romanticized.

Let's remember two things about the American Revolution.

1) The American Revolution was started and funded by the American elite. And it was started because England was interfering with their profits. Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Adams, Washington...all wealthy men...all directly profit from the Revolution...all only start to talk about revolution and "freedom" when their profits are being hurt. In my opinion, the Revolution was more of an economic war than a war of "freedoms". These were lawyers, bankers, merchants, and plantation owners...these weren't the common man rising up to take their freedoms back...these were the American elite wanting more wealth and more power...which they got after the Revolution. These are the people that started the revolution because they had the influence to do so. So who are going to be those leaders today? Please don't think it's just going to be a common man hero rising up leading the country into revolution.

2) The Revolution was not won without help...the French were hugely involved from the beginning and Spain and the Dutch also supported and assisted the revolutionaries. Any successful revolution needs outside allies to be successful...and those allies are most likely the current enemies of the government being revolted against. So my simple question to all these revolutionaries is...who are going to be your allies? Iran? China? North Korea?


People forget thse things or flat out don't know this because it isn't taught much in schools...the romantacized version everyone wants to remember is a bunch of common man stand up and fight against the impossible and win because of the ideals they believe in.

reply to post by detachedindividual


There is only one part of your post I am inclined to comment on and that is about the military. I know many people in the military and they would not harm innocent people. They do not take orders blindly. I know that there is a very small percentage who will. You are simply wrong on your account.


reply to post by sapien82


The problem with your idea is that strikes do not do anything!

They don't accomplish anything!

Why? Because they next day everything goes back to normal. No matter what you show TPTB on Dec. 21, on Dec. 22 they know that everyone is going to be suckling from their teet once again. And if not that day, then very soon because most people can't do without pappy government and big business by their sides.

Not to mention, the mere act of you trying to garner support for it on here is again T&C. Not my rules - ATS's. You are probably going to get your posts and threads deleted before you even have a chance to get off the ground. How do I know this - because I have been there and I have done that.

The global occupy protests did nothing and nobody blinked an eye - do you honestly still, after all of that, after MILLIONS OF PEOPLE went out and protested that a general strike for one day is finally going to make them say "OH NOW WE GET IT! We're sorry let's listen to the people now!"

NO. Because it is a peace lover's pipe dream. THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO PEACE BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT US DOWN THE BARRELS OF GUNS. But instead of doing something about it, we dance around and pretend like we are making a difference and we are not. This is what I am talking about. Your strikes, your protests, your letters to your congressmen, look at history please - realize once and for all that THEY DO - NOT - WORK.

The only thing they do is demotivate people into thinking change will never be possible when in fact it is. You just have to be willing to sacrifice a little bit more than just your time to see it through.


reply to post by redneck13


I think you need to invest in a hearing aid if you aren't hearing it.



reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace


Slipped my mind, thanks for the add. Another incident from a conspiracy perspective that is very... fishy. Pretty ridiculous way to start a revolution if you ask me.


reply to post by OrionStarfire


Perhaps you are right in your intelligence synopsis. Perhaps not.

I believe in a concept of True Freedom. As did the Founding Fathers. That is saying that - one should be allowed to do whatever one soever wants to do - so long as it does not stop someone else doing what they want to do.

Now in and of itself - that automatically creates a few rules that have to be followed and enforced for freedom exists, or else you break the chain. You can't kill or hurt a fellow being - because that would inhibit their freedom and you can't steal something from that person, as that too would inhibit that freedom.

Beyond those two very simple rules - the lines are very grey. But when you couple true freedom with the aspect of equality you have a perfect system. The rules are set out before you as plain as day.

1. Do not kill or harm your fellow man.
2. Do not steal from your fellow man.
3. Do not discriminate against your fellow man.

Under these three rules can a perfectly true and free society exist with minimal laws. In fact, 90% of all laws to come should fall under these three categories. Everything else should not ever be a law. Everyone who breaks these three laws, deserves to be punished - and the punishment is removal from that society - perhaps until you are rehabilitated, or perhaps permanently.

This is how America began - these are the ideals American is based upon. Any law and regulation that is now based upon these ideals is against a free society. Obviously in a modern age, regulations must be made in things such as finances and the environment - but these are now laws for individuals - these are laws for business and corporations - not to effect each and every person.

What I am getting at is - you call it a pipe dream - but the pipe dream can be very real. It is actually quite simple.



reply to post by xEphon


Rant, though it may be, mine comes with the promise of action in the coming year.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I would be proud to fight by your side man.......People just don't get it! They are cowards and worthless puppets!

reply to post by Damrod


I don't believe we can change things without force. Without violence - possible, but not without force in numbers.

1) We must get more involved in local, municipal and state elections. Municipalities make the ordinances that probably effect your day to day life more than anything.

In the long term this will not affect much besides local zoning laws and ordinances. If would be good for local things but would not accomplish much and would not lead to anything.

2) We must have term limits on Congress. They should be able to serve no more than a President does.

Yes we MUST have term limits. But think about this for a moment. Congress has to vote for term limits on themselves. It will NEVER happen. Congress must be disbanded and term limits placed in before they are re-voted in. There is absolutely no other way to work around this and it is indeed something that NEEDS to be done.

3) We must remove the ability of Lobbyist and Special interest groups to contact and influence our Representatives. Government service must be downgraded to be the equivalent of "Jury Duty", not a ticket to riches. It should be something we do out of necessity and desire to serve others, not ourselves.

Another thing that is a good talking point but no action. Congress will never pass a bill that threatens to penalize themselves for wrongdoing and they will not pass a bill that halves their wages either. This will have to be something that is done in interim government after a revolution.

4) We have GOT TO remove all incumbents...good or bad...and start over.

The system is made so that only the rich can afford to campaign. The incumbents are rich. The little guys are not. While this is one thing on your list that is certainly POSSIBLE, it is definitely not probable in current society.


But in your list of Revolutions you missed the most important and most obvious - The American Revolution - where things ended up MUCH better because dedicated leaders who sought freedom were at the helm.
So help me god if I am alive when revolution comes to this country - I will ensure until my last breath that the government that follows is the Constitutional Republic it is supposed to be - or you can be sure that the revolution will continue.


reply to post by M0n0lyth

Who exactly is the enemy. I don't mean "what is the job title of the enemy" I mean, who are the individual human beings that must be mortally wounded?

Nobody should be mortally wounded. People should be taken alive and held to trial if at all possible. A revolution isn't to go out and randomly kill people we feel are responsible, it isn't to place blame, it is to bring about an idealistic change. Idealistically, no one has to die for that to happen, realistically, they are going to open fire on us first and we are going to have to defend ourselves.

And there are no "individuals". The government just needs to be ousted while an interim government takes over.

If a revolution happens in our life time, understand that everyone becomes a potential target, not just some bankers in suits. If an entire revolutionary force can understand that and live by it, we may actually have a chance.

When the time comes, I realize that everyone can be a potential enemy. I think everyone realizes that to. As long as you remain goal oriented and realize that it is either your life and the life of the revolution or theirs, you should have no problem.



reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Tell me OK, how high up on the social ladder were Che Guevara and Fidel Castro when they decided to start a Revolution in Cuba?

Was it Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Madison, and all the others who stood defiant in Boston against the British Soldiers? Was it them who stood with guns ready at Lexington and Concord when the first shots of the Revolution began?

No. I'm not taking anything away from the minds of the greatest political thinkers in American History, but the American Revolution didn't start with them - it started with American Patriots - the so called "common man" you speak of. It ended with them as well. They provided the morale and the paperwork and it was the "common man" who got the ball rolling.

So as far as you false claims of "romanticism" - save it. The common men are the ones the fight and win revolutions - not the funders, not the elites who praise them in the background. They just pick up the pieces when it is all said and done.

reply to post by OrionStarfire


Wow. Okay. Feel free to correct me but this is this jist of what I read:

1 We're too dumb for an anarchy
2 We need a revolution

Control is illusion. Fact is we govern ourselves already according to the avoidance of consequences laid out by our laws. They still get broken, though some more often than others.

I have to shake my head at your emphasis on IQ. The ratio of mental age to physical age doesn't fairly represent true intelligence, merely the quality of education, nor does it speak for aptitude.

Intelligence alone isn't even the vital heartbeat of anarchism as much as common ethic would be. It's the lack of a finite governing body, not social structure. I sure as hell wouldn't be fighting for anarchy. I believe in the beauty of individuality and our bill of rights. That's what I would be striving for at the end of the day.. my freedom to be an individual and independant where applicable. I suppose I can only speak for myself, but I see similar values throughout many of these posts.

Originally posted by Skewed
This is where you and I differ. This is my country, I was born here, I have no where else to go, so I will fight for it. If you feel the American people are useless and not worth fighting for, then why do you remain here, pack your bags and do not let the door hit your ass on the way out. A real patriot will not leave their homeland out to dry, they will fight for it for better or worse. I have lost blood for this country already, and will do so again and again until I have no more left to lose. The American people as a whole are not as useless as you insinuate, they are merely asleep, albeit very frustratingly so. The question is, what have you done, except ridicule your very own people and bad mouthing the only home you have. At the end of the day, the only thing we have; is our word, each other and this land, protect it or lose it and it has to be done altogether.

If you tell me to get out of the country, then I must have a place to go, and that means you do too! Or, I don't, and your advice to me is null.

Since you didn't tell me that you were out protesting, I must assume you have been just posting messages because you would certainly take credit for your efforts. Thus, my point remains...

What a bunch of bologna! You're as helpful as I am (not at all)!

I am expressing my opinion on the state of this nation, and it isn't at all what it used to be. I naturally must complain to do that. It wasn't an intent to, it was a incidental, a 'side effect.'

reply to post by gwydionblack


There are those in my country that I know , who are no longer classed as children by the government who have issued their letters of intent , and no longer have dependance on the nanny state!

I think that through disconnecting ourselves from dependance on government we can surely show them that way that we are smart enough and skilled enough to survive without the help of government.

I do agree though protesting hardly ever achieves anything on government level . I protested quite a lot during my teens and up til now , and sadly those protests have never achieved anything , not even a batted eyelid from the government.

We cant rise up in arms against the criminal government though , because then we too are criminal .We as intelligent civilised human beings must remain lawful . Laws are universal and exist in naturally , therefore we too as natures children need to remain lawful in our existance .

We cannot play the same game they play , lest we become of their breed.
It's a grand chess board if anything , we just have to play our moves smartly!

As I stated before we could easily submit a manifesto of reform world wide to our governments legally , but I fear it would have no impact in anyway.

How long will it be before we have people setting themselves on fire in the street in protest, much like the monks of china and tibet do in protest against brutal dictatorship !

reply to post by sapien82


The manifesto might work in other countries, but I know it will do nothing in the US. Many similar "manifestos" and "petitions" have come to light and even resulted in many actions or hundreds of thousands of signatures, but nothing came of it.

But as for you saying we can't fight them because it is against the law... that is kind of funny. Against whose law? THEIR LAW. Not mine. As I said above, there are only three laws in my word that are universal.

1. Do not kill or harm your fellow man.
2. Do not steal from your fellow man.
3. Do not discriminate against fellow man.

I do however deem rule number one to be breakable in the act of defense. I do not revolt with the intent of killing or maiming anyone. It will come with the actions of those who choose to react against the wishes of a revolution that violence will ensue. It will be in defense that action will be taken and it will be through offensive ingenuity that action will be taken while causing the least amount of casualties from the side of the revolutionaries.

If ever I find myself upon that battlefield that will be my credo. But I will not subject myself to the laws that they created to keep us caged - that is how progress and humanity is enslaved. It is stupid to accept that as reality.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Here is an idea...its not something that would ever happen just an idea.
lets imagine a large territory was designated for every unsatisfied U.S. citizen to go to live and start a new country. How many Americans would flood out of America? Probably not many. However if almost all of them flooded out, the U.S. government would have nobody to work on its behalf, either to sustain its economy or its military. This mass Exodus would end the U.S. government non violently. Problem is, people are conditioned to stay and there is no designated new country for them to start over. Back in the day the U.S.A. was the designated new country to start over. see what I mean.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I agree with your outline, short of discrimination. I am free to judge as I see fit. If my neighbor is a lunatic, I will discriminate accordingly. But only in the form of personal opportunity from myself, such as: giving them the opportunity to enter my home, or maybe even just to interact with me altogether. Everything is conditional.

Also, stealing would be defined according to however property is defined within society. Just saying "don't steal" is a rather vague generalization. Slavery would still need banishment. No human should be considered property of another.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I think that allot of what we are taught about the founding fathers and about the American revolution is basically propaganda, our founding fathers were brilliant yes...brilliantly deceitful. Most people on this site know that many of them were Freemason in fact 9 who signed the declaration of independence were Masons (including Washington), 13 that signed the constitution were, and 33 generals in the continental army were masons. Many don't know that the Rothschilds funded the American Revolution, in fact it was one of the first things that this evil family did after establishing the Illuminati and infiltrating the Masonic lodges of Bavaria, and England in 1776 under Weishaupt (which was not actually when the constitution was ratified but rather it was ratified in 1789). What the constitution, and the declaration of independence represent is the utopian ideology used to convince the common man to back the elitist agenda of the revolution, but behind closed doors the writers of American law integrated loopholes into the law with highly complex legal jargon that the average man had no hope of understanding. This legal jargon ensured that the writers of the law would be above it and that things could be easily manipulated by TPTB. From the very beginnings of the USA things were set up to prop up the elitists, so glorifying the founding fathers does not help your case in anyway. The revolution was just one of the first of many example of the Rothschilds seizing economic control of a country rich in resources, with us they seized the American colonies from the British with agenda of the revolution. The next leader of a revolution...maybe you...will promote a similar utopian philosophy, which sounds very nice on paper, but simply doesn't work in practice, and become our new leader. Then when it is realized that...hey this really doesn't work so well you will realize that it is easier to just keep the charade going, 'cause once one has the power it is human nature to not give it up freely...in the end nothing has changed.