America - April 19th, The Start of the Revolution - A REVISIT

reply to post by OrionStarfire


Rothschilds were still developing their international banking and open market system while the revolution was happening. The freemasonry belief system has roots much more ancient. You're equating two totally different establishments, sir.

reply to post by gwydionblack


GWYDIONBLACK for president.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I dont ever really give out S&F, but I must say that you are the most intelligent person I have had the pleasure to read on this website.

GWYDIONBLACK FOR PRESIDENT

reply to post by jlm912


actually the gist of my post is:

1. The average man to dumb for self rule, which would only result in a short transitional period of anarchy, until a new government is formed.

2. the revolution we need is to eliminate the intellectual midgets in politics, and other high positions of hereditary authority.

not to be intentionally rude, but I think that maybe my concept is either to large for you to grasp, or you are attempting to make me out to have contradicted myself as a means to defame my post and destroy its credibility...I did not contradict myself in my statements. If your intention is the latter, this is an example of sophistry, and should not have occurred in a civilized debate forum.

In the next year, my duel citizen Australian/American wife and I are moving to Australia. I can’t wait to get out of this country. I have protested and demonstrated on numerous occasions about what our Gov. is doing to Americans. I have even been put in jail for voicing my concerns. You know, I don’t really know who to blame more, the politicians who are corrupt or Americans who are allowing it to happen.

When I do leave, at least I can say I wasn’t one of those people who sat behind a computer screen b!tching about it! I did my best to make the difference. Maybe one day when Americans decide to grow a pair, I’ll come back to join to fight. But until then, I wish my fellow American the best…

Americans really need to get their priorities straight. Hanging out on Wall Street isn’t going to make the difference. People need to go after the Federal Reserve, the White House, and Congress. A couple million Americans storming congress and hanging these people where they stand will really speak numbers on how pizzed off Americans are. Forcing these people to make change seems like the only alternative. Some might say that is the wrong way to go or that Americans are better than that, but do you think screaming “impeach” is going to make any difference at all? Laws don’t apply to any of these people, and they know it. As for voting these people out of office, good luck with that. TPTB make sure who gets to stay and who does not. Do you actually think you’re an important component in how our country is run? We are only slaves, and the Gov. is holding the whip.

They say that it sometimes takes something drastic to make real serious change to take place. When 911 happened, it (if but a short time) brought Americans together as a whole. I have said this before, but I think we need another eye opener to get America back on track. If a million+ illegals can get over our southern border every year, what would stop a well-funded, well organized terrorist group from getting a dirty nuke or a bioweapon into our country? Get it into a major city, set the timer, and wait for the chaos. If something does happen, Americans are going to want answers. Americans are going to know with 100% certainty that our Gov. was to blame for allowing such death and devastation to take place. But then you have to ask the big question, “Will Americans finally stand up and fight”? Will they once and for all put these corrupt idiots in their place? If not, then maybe America deserves to go down the $h!ter in a hand basket.

Now if there’s someone with an alternative in dealing with these corrupt idiots, I would really love to hear it...

Any ideas...

reply to post by splitlevel


I think a lot more people would go to said territory than you might think. I also think many people would stay behind due to reasons you might not consider.

I would stay behind for the reasons that this territory is not the United States. It is not governed by the Constitution and when people get there, there is no telling what kind of rule is going to go down. Now if the US told me I could take the Declaration and the Constitution with, and the government of said territory could be based upon those, with no outside involvement from the US, then by all means - lets get started... but it wouldn't happen.

Either way, I would still feel guilty about leaving this country and the history behind, let along the people, many of whom, sadly, are still brainwashed by their tyrannical governments.


reply to post by jlm912


Discriminate all you want in your personal life. I am talking more along the lines of a public level. Bathroom segregation? Racial profiling? Hate crimes?

Things of that nature need to be quelled. What you do on your own is your business. Who you allow into your business or to deal with your property - that too is your business.

Slavery would fit under the terms of discrimination. Obviously to consider one a slave you would consider one inferior and less equal than another person. It would be required to be laid out, yes, but it is indeed covered.

Stealing would obviously have to be defined by the definition of one's personal property. In the modern world one must also consider intellectual property as well which is why we have the patent system. We already have a standard American view of what is considered "property" so it isn't really hard to figure out. It hasn't changed much in the last 250 years.


reply to post by OrionStarfire


If I ever lead a revolution, and if I am ever elected into power following that revolution - it will be just that - through elective procedure. Do not get me wrong, there are changes that simply need to happen and if I see that those in power after the dust settles don't seek to make them changes, then different strategy will have to be taken.

You see, I cherish simplicity. Having power would corrupt that simplicity. So if ever I were to have power, as I have show in the past in my life, I am quick to do my job and relinquish it so that I may move on and do what needs to be done. I consider myself different than most men. Not above, not more intelligent, but different - different in a way that when the time comes to part ways with everything this world has given me, be is possessions, relationships, bonds, or as you say - power - I have no problem doing so. Perhaps it is because in my past I have faced death in the eyes and I have not turned away and now I do not fear it. Perhaps it is not so unique a characteristic after all.

Surely, all of the men involved in the revolution were not tainted by the hand of power. Even Washington, a Mason himself, refused to hold onto the power of the presidency though it was offered to him for a much longer period than he chose to sit in the seat. James Madison demanded that the Bill of Right be implemented before any such government should come to pass. And my personal hero, Thomas Jefferson, stood so steadfast on the side of freedom that he foresaw to this very day what would come to pass in this nation as America went down its dark road - and it is many of his inspirational quotes that are a guiding light of patriots today.

The Founders were indeed infiltrated, and I drew my lines long ago as to which ones were sincere and which ones were not in the fight for liberty. You could tell by their actions following the war that men such as John Adams and Alexander Hamilton cared little for the rights of the people and had differing agendas than individual freedoms - but ultimately - it was their sides that won out.

And that is what led to what we have today. The Federalists won an thus your story came true. But it does not taint them name of them all - I can assure you, they were not all on the same side of the equation.

reply to post by ringlejames


I appreciate the sentiment and the vote, but I am not yet old enough to be President.

Unlike many, including our current President, I still respect the Constitution. I do fit the other requirements, however.

Maybe 11 years from now, I will be happy to see you at the voting booth. Hopefully the Republic lasts until then.

reply to post by OrionStarfire


Barking the Freemason thing is ...well....silly. That would be like saying "that guy Damrod...he's a member of the Moose lodge...and we know all those folks are drunks and whoremongers"

Who cares?

The Freemasons are a victim of empty skulls with nothing better to ponder on....how about pondering on better fuel and ecological energy?...No?...maybe cause....not that bright?...then shut up....

Affiliation is goofy...so what...the founding fathers had a dream and created an experiment that had never been done before....if you want to know what a "new world order" is...well that is it....a government free of monarchy was pretty profound back in the day.

people that adhere to these ancient prejudice make my bile rise and my skin crawl....freedom people...freedom to think, freedom to believe, freedom to choose....get with the plan or go back to where your antiquated ideas come from....this is "the new world".....

Some folks are so locked in their old world ways they don't deserve a voice in the new world...yet...we let you have it...show some f'ing appreciation by not being a moron occasionally....

reply to post by jlm912


Although the Masons are far older that the Illuminati and the Rothschild family, does not change the fact that one of the primary goals of the Illuminati, of which the Rothschild were the true founders, was to infiltrate the Masons to utilize this society in their global ambitions of world domination and economic tyranny. The American revolution was simply the first example of this, then like dominoes, Germany, Austria, France, Britain all fell to the Rothschild Bankers. 1776 was the start of all this, and it is a fact that the Rothschilds were both primary founders of the Illuminati and funded the American revolution, and it is no coincidence that many references to Illuminatus are mentioned in the degree system of Freemasony, and which did not appear in Scottish rite freemasonry until the 1780's.

Per the military fighting American citizens:

Having been in the military, I can tell you that, no, no solder, sailor or airman want's to harm the very citizens who's country we swore to defend.

On the other hand if a group of civilians were to show up and open fire, that would be a different story. You don't care WHO it is that is shooting at you at that point. You just want them to stop, and unfortunately that means returning deadly force with equal deadly force.

The other problem that you have is this: we swore an oath. It was this oath right here:

"I, (insert name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The only way your revolution would work (as far as using force), would be for the US military to suddenly NOT recognize POTUS as the Commander In Chief. They would have to no longer recognize and accept the authority of the Secretary of Defense.
The Joint Chiefs would have to be in agreement of both those things above.

The only way THAT would happen is if the Joint Chiefs (or their officers below them) are ordered to slaughter innocent civilians who are unarmed.

If let's say, the US army was told to secure a US city, because there are people their that are "rebelling", they are not going to like it. No.
However, if those same civilians then open up on the US army, or offered deadly force in anyway, weapons status would be "red and free". They don't care that one of those citizens is a 75 year old granny that bakes pies on Sundays. Not when she's toting a double barrel 12ga shotgun and is opening up on them. That's because if Granny has an apple pie in her hand, she's a "non-combatant". If she's blowing away solders with that 12ga, she just became a "combatant".

The only way a revolution using force would work in this country, is if the vast majority of the population took up arms and then refused to pay taxes, refused to do their jobs as public service (IE police and firemen), and that means of course refusing to work, or use the current money system to buy supplies of any kind (Food, gas, water, etc). And then hold their ground.

If the US military were then ordered to go and round up people, take their arms away, etc, etc. Then the Joint Chiefs could turn around and give POTUS their middle finger. Because at that point (at least for now), they would be violating the constitution, that very same document they swore to defend.

There IS such a thing as a "Lawful Order". And there is such a thing as a "Unlawful Order". A "Unlawful Order" is one that either violates the oath of enlistment you took, or it violates the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).

Shooting civilians that have not offered deadly force (even though they may be armed), and are NOT in a "nuclear exclusion zone" (this is an area where nuclear weapons are housed. Deadly force is ALWAYS authorized in an exclusion zone. I know as I used to stand watch in one with a loaded weapon, and a sign that actually said that deadly force is authorized....), would be considered an "Unlawful Order"

But forget the military for now (you would need them to join up), the main problem is that the majority of Americans won't suddenly rebel. Things would have to get much, much worse.

I hate taxes myself. I hate seeing things change in a direction I don't like. But for now? I live on my own 10 acres of land, grow food, and yah, if I want to build a chicken coop, I can just fine,because I live in the county and not the city limits where zoning laws are stricter. I'm sorry you can't build a bigger chicken coop in the city. But if you could, do you know what your neighbors would do? They'd be at your door having their OWN rebellion against you. Do you have any idea how much noise and smell chickens make? I do. A LOT!

There's a REASON for zoning laws.

Oh, and I can make 200 gallons of beer and 100 gallons of wine with no license required as long as it's for my own consumption or as gifts. If I want to sell it, yep, I have to get a license. But selling it would be work. I make it for fun.

But if they ever come back and say I can't? Then I'll look you up and sign up for your revolution then!

Originally posted by OrionStarfire
reply to post by jlm912

 

Although the Masons are far older that the Illuminati and the Rothschild family, does not change the fact that one of the primary goals of the Illuminati, of which the Rothschild were the true founders, was to infiltrate the Masons to utilize this society in their global ambitions of world domination and economic tyranny. The American revolution was simply the first example of this, then like dominoes, Germany, Austria, France, Britain all fell to the Rothschild Bankers. 1776 was the start of all this, and it is a fact that the Rothschilds were both primary founders of the Illuminati and funded the American revolution, and it is no coincidence that many references to Illuminatus are mentioned in the degree system of Freemasony, and which did not appear in Scottish rite freemasonry until the 1780's.

Orionstarfire.....I was a fan....but I am declining....talk of Illuminati and Rothschilds and Masons....I feel credibility slipping....these are esoteric and ethereal things...their strength of reality is purely based on how much strength you are willing to give them....I give them none....screw them....I can punch them in the face like anyone else...so...they shoot me...oh...I'm dead....like I am going to care at that point....

When the heart stops beating and the brain stops firing....you are oblivious...it is done and over. All we can hope for is that our life made a difference. But to believe in some "happily ever after"....well that is psychotic....when the brain dies folks....it is lights out....game over...and gracefully....you will not know...cause to stop thinking is to stop existing and your time has ended....let's all hope we made a difference before the curtain falls.

I hope a make a profound difference in the world before I die...I have no illusions of anything beyond that point

If people see through the materialism that's got them in its clutches, then we wouldn't be controlled because then there would be no way to buy us off.

And buying us off is just plan A buy the controllers.

Plan B will use fear and I'm sure they will use the most devastating tactics in the beginning to strike horror into our hearts. The equivalent of a hiroshima right up front to end quickly what would have started. This generation of people is so docile, that it will take another one or two generations to see what's going on and then do something about it.

That's right folks. Just sit back and enjoy the view as your screams to your fellow man won't be heard for a while.

This is akin to cat-fishing where you can only just set your pole and read a book.

reply to post by Damrod


Attempting to bash a debater as stupid, or somehow implicating that they are somehow morally corrupt or antiquated, so as to discredit their point of view is a sign that you are frustrated with the debate, and have no real evidence to back up your point of view. Commonly people resort to personal attacks when they cannot win a debate logically. This is called sophistry, and when someone resorts to it you can be assured that their opponent has already won the debate. Good day.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by redneck13
I don’t hear any Americans complaining about their freedom or their rights. Only their financial condition, the occupy movement is without a message. A financial revolution starts the voting booth with your representatives and congressmen; they are the check and balance. Learn to use the existing system don’t try to abuse it.

edit on 20-4-2012 by redneck13 because: @##$%%

Do you still believe that voting actually matters?

The Occupy movement has a clear message - economic inequality and the corporate corruption of government must end.

If you've failed to hear that very clear and obvious message then that perhaps says more about the American education system than the Occupy movement.

The only message out of occupy Wall Street that I heard was a bunch of spoiled brats expecting free hand outs. I know that things were not always, as they are now. In my 50+ years of existence, you learn a lot that school will not teach you. There was a time when people were content with what they have with better attitudes; unnatural inflation is running wild spurred by the greedy, goverment debt, cost of fuel, etc... Try living in a third world country for ten years then come back and tell me how bad it is. Voting can indeed make a difference. Why don’t you run for an office, I am sure you can do better? The fact is we have the best thing going in the world right now. I am sorry you cannot afford the latest Xbox, get off your butt and deliver newspapers or, try to overthrow the government, that will not happen. Don’t worry when big brother puts you in your place someone will be there to pick up your pieces my freind.

reply to post by Damrod


just because these are "fringe" subjects does not mean that they don't exist, and does not destroy my credibility. The fact is that political moves are planned behind closed doors, and many moves are made in secret. Be it the Illuminati, the Freemasons, or today's Bilderbergs or the trilateral commission...the fact is that secret societies do exist and the founding fathers were members of one or two. If I wanted to control a civilization of people I wouldn't go about it in the open, I would do it in secret, and lie to everyone about what I was really doing, cause noone would go for it if I told them what I was really doing.

Originally posted by OrionStarfire
reply to post by Damrod

 

Attempting to bash a debater as stupid, or somehow implicating that they are somehow morally corrupt or antiquated, so as to discredit their point of view is a sign that you are frustrated with the debate, and have no real evidence to back up your point of view. Commonly people resort to personal attacks when they cannot win a debate logically. This is called sophistry, and when someone resorts to it you can be assured that their opponent has already won the debate. Good day.

What?

Dude...I am not attacking you...you need to back up, re-boot and re-read. I disagree with the whole conspiracy thing...it has nothing to do with you personally....there is no conspiracy...just ignorance unbound. I don't get how you thought I was attacking you...I was arguing with an ideology....not you personally....

If you want to believe the Freemasons and the Illuminati and whatever spook you can think of is responsible...that is fine...i disagree....regular old human beings can be the worst monsters you have ever encountered.

I digress....I don't want to fight with you. I was making a point that the real monster is often the image we see every morning in the mirror....it is us...we are the ugliness...the monster....the "anti-christ"....we who are so proud of ourselves and yet we allow our brothers to starve and suffer....man...if that is how we treat our brothers....I'd hate to be a cousin.....

reply to post by Damrod


I re-read your post at length, and it still seems like a subtle attack at the credibility of my previous statements simply because I chose to speak about the very real subject of secret societies in relation to the founding fathers...though I see how you may have not meant it as an attack, I do apologize for taking it that way. With that said sometimes things that are best communicated with the aid of a facial expression are lost in translation on a forum like this. What we really need is to bring back the old soap box in the park.

reply to post by OrionStarfire


Granted...that is fine... meant no harm. I , right or wrong....do not see a thing with the Freemasons (or the moose for that matter) I just see an ample field of possible blame...and no...I promise I am not a Freemason..

I just hate to see the blame thing thrown around....it is rarely an entire organization but usually a few culprits within an organization.

I don't think the are out "to get us" I think they hoped to show us a better way of interaction that continuously gets interrupted by hate and prejudice.

All that aside....I just want to see a light show before I die....gimme a false flag alien invasion or gimme a revelation as to how far we have advanced....but don't treat me like I am stupid...I know...we know...more than we say.

The problem with revolution though is unless there's an event that wakes up a lot more people, it will be seen as a domestic terrorist cell and stomped out by the government and the ones still asleep will, sadly, cheer it on.

reply to post by OrionStarfire


Well, forgive me if I insult you, for it is not my intention, but I do not fit into your false dichotomy fallacy. My point was we already rule ourselves under guidelines more clearly set than they would be under anarchy.