Germany - A Koran in Every Household

reply to post by Sahabi


I don't think anyone could have said it better in few words such as you did, my dude. Keep up the love and peace. Namaste/Nomoshkar.

I wonder if this version of their koran is tampered with.
We shall see.

Originally posted by foobarred

Originally posted by Battleline

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Battleline

"Tulmud=Thamud/Torah/Tanakh"after reading up on these religions I saw nowhere that they have ever spoke of killing people that don't change to there way of thinking.

Well, isn't that pesky Flood in the Old Testament part of the Judaic tradition? I could well be wrong, but...

Well didn't that pesky post of mine mention current day religions or did you miss that.............just saying.

One would hope by now that humans would be a little more civil in there religious beleifs and how they force there will on others.

edit on 18-4-2012 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

Not sure what happen to this post????

edit on 18-4-2012 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

ALL of the OT is in the Jewish tradition. The Old Testament is Jewish, and the New Testament is Christian. All the filth and crap in the OT is JEWISH, not Christian. Read the two the Jews' god and Christ's God are two totally separate beings. The Jews worship the god of this world, which is why the OT is full of nothing but bloodlust and violence.

Great spin , turning this into an Jewish hating post.That nullifies any respect I might have had for retort.

Gods are in the minds of man and it would seem you have two of them, enough hate will do that to a person.

So it's ok for the many, MANY christians to do this, but when the muslims do it, there's something wrong with it?


I see some people are saying muslims want to install shariah law? And christians don't want to live by their own version of "shariah law"? Because I only see Christians doing that in America. I haven't seen any muslims trying to turn america into a theocracy, only christians.

Neither of these will ever probably happen.
I see no reason to complain about them trying though.

Heck, I'll take a free Koran. It would look good on the bookshelf.

Why not?

Islam is being used for nothing more than to destroy religion as a whole. Not by way of the Muslims per say, but as a way to cause so much angst towards religion in general, that Christianity (amongst other religions) gets put into the same basket. Already many would agree that all religions should be done away with. And that is the agenda at hand.

Many people the world over are asking why is so much being done to accommodate the Muslims? You think this is by accident? or by design? ...

Take today's newspaper:

Australian Football League to install prayer rooms for Muslims at all grounds.

No the above article is no joke either. The Australian Football League will establish prayer rooms at all football venues. Of coarse they won't say "Muslim" prayer rooms, but its blatantly clear who these prayer rooms are being created for. Even the ex-premier of the state is saying WTH? but it will go ahead anyway because this is the agenda.

Its not about converting the masses to Islam. Its about turning the masses away from religion period. People in general are sick to death of it all. A Koran in every household? Why, because by doing so everyone will convert to Islam?, hardly, or simply another nail in the coffin for religion as a whole?

I'm sure there are quite large numbers already who would agree religion as a whole should be done away with. And really, who can blame them? That's the point. Whilst many many faith based organizations the world over do a fantastic job of feeding the poor and looking after those less fortunate, it doesn't and will never make news headlines. Regardless of all the bad religion does, and lets face it, you don't have to go far to find that information, there is equally a lot of good being done in the world by religious folk. Ordinary people who give of their time to help those in need. If you've ever been in crisis (natural disaster, unemployed, homeless and so on) you will know first hand of the selfless work many faith based organizations do.

Sadly this work goes mostly unnoticed. It will rarely if ever make headlines. The nameless, faceless hero's of our world giving practical aid and assistance to those who without them, the world would be a much sadder, harder place for many.

But instead we are force fed this barrage of "the Muslims are taking over!" garbage. And I truly believe those behind it all don't care one iota about Islam in general. Its an agenda to gather popular opinion that religion as a whole is wrong. Forget the good religions the world over do, you'll never see it. Only the bad, only the negative. From child molesting priests, to radical extremists of all faiths. This is the saturation of agenda into our daily lives to sway public opinion away from religion.

The Muslim is being used as they fit the agenda perfectly. The Muslim themselves have no idea they are being used in this fashion. They will play a roll in their own destruction eventually. And ultimately the destruction of religion as a whole. And I'm positive MANY the world over couldn't agree more. They'd be sick of religion, and with the saturation of negativity, who can blame them?

Originally posted by 23432
reply to post by Sahabi

 

I am just curious , before you have converted to Islam ; have you never researched about the origins of wahabism & salafis ?

No one has ever told you about the origins of Saudi Arabian royal family ?

These are just a few of the books on this specific topic that I still have. I've got a very well-rounded personal library on all sorts of fields and domains. When I learn something, I hit it from every angle I can.

The Salafi ideology is appealing to a reverent Muslim for many reasons. The main reason is that the Salaf seek extreme purity of religion. In order to practice Islam as pure as possible, they ardently obey and follow the Qur'an, Sahih Sunnah (Traditions of Muhammad), The Rightly Guided Caliphs (Muhammad's 4 immediate successors), Sahaba (companions of Muhammad),Tabiyeen (generation after the Sahaba), and Tabe-Tabiyeen (generation after the Tabiyeen). They stick to these teachings and these edicts only. Everything not taught by these direct sources of Islam is considered bi'dah (innovation), and innovation is considered amongst the highest sins of blasphemy. Therefore, their ideology is forever stuck in the medieval ages of Arabia.

To a devout Muslim, trying to be as close to Muhammad as possible is a major striving. The Salafi school of thought promotes a strict adherance to the above mentioned sources, creating a massive appeal to devout Muslims.

These are the types of books that Salafists read. This ideology has deep roots to the Saudi Royal Family and to the bin Laden Family. I'm just saying.... look for the agenda. A radical fundementalist is not going to spend millions of dollars to give "charity" to their openly declared enemies. Salafists are the types of Muslims who intentionally travel to war-torn countries in order to participate in jihad.

If it were normal Muslims on an information campaign, I would not have entered this thread.

Peace.

It's a trick to turn more muslim anger against the west.

Salafi Muslims often promote not engaging in Western activities like politics, "even by giving them an Islamic slant." Instead, it is thought that Muslims should stick to traditional activities, particularly Dawah. Salafis promote that the Sharia (Islamic law) takes precedence over civil or state law. Nevertheless, Salafis do not preach wilful ignorance of civil or state law. While preaching that the Sharia takes precedence, Salafi Muslims conform to civil or state law as far as they are required, for example in purchasing mandatory motor insurance. Here, a Salafi Muslim would purchase "third party, fire and theft" insurance in order to avoid going to jail, but he/she would not purchase "fully comprehensive" insurance because commercial insurance is seen as gambling.link

Imagine how many people will throw their Quran into the trashcan or into the fire when they recieve it.

Now take the Koran-burning in Afghanistan and the muhammed crisis which became the "largest national crisis" in Denmark since WWII into concideration.

The Salafists is using a slow approach to try and convert none-muslims. They also have a stated goal of implementing Sharia Laws worldwide which made them the laughing stocks for many larger groups of muslims. Muslims and the Koran may be ok, but the salafists got extreme goals and should'nt be allowed anywhere.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."


Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”



What a peaceful religon, worshiping a god who desires killing to spread his followers!

Deleted.

reply to post by Cavalier

Thank you for posting direct quotes.

And something else I hope people here and worldwide think about.

It all starts with 'baby steps' - until all of a sudden there's this big black Salafi boot in your face and you're asking yourself 'where did that come from'!

Another thing to seriously consider?

With Christianity? You have a choice.

With the Muslim religion? You. Do. Not. It's THEIR WAY or no way.
And be doubly warned. 'Their way' is not 'just a religion' but a complete way of life - politically, socially, economically, etc. And when it's 'their way' don't forget you'll be paying tribute tax also - like it or not.

peace

Originally posted by Sahabi
This is the group and ideology set to distribute Qur'ans in Germany. Do you still not see the problem?

While I certainly respect your perspective, and appreciate your sharing, I think what it comes down to is this - no matter what the motive, it is legal in free societies such as ours to disseminate religious texts. No matter if the same is not true in many Islamic countries. If they set the rules, have we not then lost our own integrity?

I don't challenge the fact that religious fanaticism of any stripe is evil...but we tolerate the nutbars in our society as long as they don't pick up guns to make their point. If this organisation is a menace, the first thing that happens is that their finances are frozen...that is how the real "War on Terror" is fought. Til then, as repugnant as they may be, they are within their rights, as we are within our rights to say pass.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Hello again JohnnyCanuck.
In no way do I wish to restrict the giving or distribution of religious or philosophical texts. To limit others would be to limit my Self. Also, I do not see anything wrong with handing out Qur'ans. Learning different concepts is a great way for people to make new insights about the collective human consciousness and life in general.

In war-torn Islamic nations, the vast majority of foreign immigrants/visitors participating in jihad are Salafists. Jihad, to many Islamic militants, is considered the 6th pillar of Islam, and an obligation for all able-bodied Muslim men. Salafists rushed into Afghanistan to fight the Russians, and again to fight the U.S.-lead coalition forces. They travelled to Africa and Chechnya to wage jihad. Osama bin Laden followed the Salafi ideology, and so did the 9/11 hijackers. Salafism and Qutbism runs deep within the militant Egyptian Brotherhood.

When we talk of Salafi, we are talking about literal jihadists.

_________________________________________________________


For the sake of being open-minded and objective....
We have an ideological group who travel the world participating in international jihad and teaching radical Islam. A group who openly has declared the U.S., Israel, U.K., and their allies as enemies of Islam. Now they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this dawah campaign for their openly declared enemies. Salafism has direct and deep political and financial ties with the Saudi Royal Family and the bin Laden Family.

• Where are the hundreds of millions coming from to purchase and distribute Qur'ans?
• What is the motive of such a campaign? What is the agenda?

Originally posted by Sahabi
• Where are the hundreds of millions coming from to purchase and distribute Qur'ans?
• What is the motive of such a campaign? What is the agenda?

I've no doubt they are bad guys, but what do you suggest? Are they a legal organisation? If so then they are free to distribute the Koran, and we are compelled to protect that right.

Originally posted by Stagea
Islam is being used for nothing more than to destroy religion as a whole. Not by way of the Muslims per say, but as a way to cause so much angst towards religion in general, that Christianity (amongst other religions) gets put into the same basket. Already many would agree that all religions should be done away with. And that is the agenda at hand.

Many people the world over are asking why is so much being done to accommodate the Muslims? You think this is by accident? or by design? ...

Take today's newspaper:

Australian Football League to install prayer rooms for Muslims at all grounds.

No the above article is no joke either. The Australian Football League will establish prayer rooms at all football venues. Of coarse they won't say "Muslim" prayer rooms, but its blatantly clear who these prayer rooms are being created for. Even the ex-premier of the state is saying WTH? but it will go ahead anyway because this is the agenda.

Its not about converting the masses to Islam. Its about turning the masses away from religion period. People in general are sick to death of it all. A Koran in every household? Why, because by doing so everyone will convert to Islam?, hardly, or simply another nail in the coffin for religion as a whole?

I'm sure there are quite large numbers already who would agree religion as a whole should be done away with. And really, who can blame them? That's the point. Whilst many many faith based organizations the world over do a fantastic job of feeding the poor and looking after those less fortunate, it doesn't and will never make news headlines. Regardless of all the bad religion does, and lets face it, you don't have to go far to find that information, there is equally a lot of good being done in the world by religious folk. Ordinary people who give of their time to help those in need. If you've ever been in crisis (natural disaster, unemployed, homeless and so on) you will know first hand of the selfless work many faith based organizations do.

Sadly this work goes mostly unnoticed. It will rarely if ever make headlines. The nameless, faceless hero's of our world giving practical aid and assistance to those who without them, the world would be a much sadder, harder place for many.

But instead we are force fed this barrage of "the Muslims are taking over!" garbage. And I truly believe those behind it all don't care one iota about Islam in general. Its an agenda to gather popular opinion that religion as a whole is wrong. Forget the good religions the world over do, you'll never see it. Only the bad, only the negative. From child molesting priests, to radical extremists of all faiths. This is the saturation of agenda into our daily lives to sway public opinion away from religion.

The Muslim is being used as they fit the agenda perfectly. The Muslim themselves have no idea they are being used in this fashion. They will play a roll in their own destruction eventually. And ultimately the destruction of religion as a whole. And I'm positive MANY the world over couldn't agree more. They'd be sick of religion, and with the saturation of negativity, who can blame them?

Brilliant post. You nailed it perfectly.

reply to post by ollncasino


Avoided like a politician, well done. Except, you still fail to answer the question - why persecute Muslims and not followers of other organised religions? Does conservatism bias your judgement?

Your comments are extremely ignorant, and I'm already certain I'm more aware of Islamic history than you are. That is not a point of contention, you proved it yourself.

Additionally, your sources? The Surahs you quote say nothing of what you attribute to them, the hadith link doesn't work, the first is called "Islamic Imperialism" and the last is not an official Islamic source either.

Life isn't about finding groups to persecute, point the finger at and hate, the only thing that is gonna get us is mutual destruction. Your attitude is much more harmful than that of the vast majority of Muslims.

Muslims are not the boogie man, violent indoctrination of the uneducated and deprived is the boogie man.

reply to post by silo13

With Christianity? You have a choice.

With the Muslim religion? You. Do. Not. It's THEIR WAY or no way.

In Christianity, it is implied that you do not have a choice. If you refuse to worship God, you burn in hell forever and ever - some choice. Moreover, the concept of 'free will' in Christianity is undermined by that of 'fate'.

In past times, we have seen extremist Christianity impose itself on other religions with the same intolerance fuelled cruelty as modern day extremist Islam. On much larger scales too. Let's not forget the crusades, nor the many massacres of indigenous tribes decreed unholy barbarians.

Hell, the Catholics and the Protestants have even done some heinous things to each other in the past. Many Christians still attempt to impose their religion on others to this day. Some forcefully, some not. Those that try to do so without violence still carry the same mentality of one who uses violence - they want to impose a religion on others full stop. Whether that is rooted in violence or attempted indoctrination, the root is the same - albeit to less severe consequences.

Islam is no different, the religion itself does not command Muslims to impose themselves on others. The majority of informed Muslims do not do so either. The forceful, contorted version of Islam is akin to a series of cults, it is called 'extremism' for a reason. The phrase implies an inherent difference between the standard form and the extremist form. To fail to recognise this is akin to bigotry. Would you equate all Christians to the Westboro Baptist Church? I wouldn't.

And be doubly warned. 'Their way' is not 'just a religion' but a complete way of life - politically, socially, economically, etc. And when it's 'their way' don't forget you'll be paying tribute tax also - like it or not.

It is seen as a way of life, morally and perhaps to a limited degree, culturally. Not politically though, nor entirely legally. Sharia is only a very basic framework, subject to a great deal of variance and subjectivity.

But what's this melodramatic speculation about tribute tax? That is hipster drivel.

reply to post by Cavalier


You Did not read the quran thoroughly did you? all the verses you stated was out of context.


Yeah, i thought bible teaches people how to act incestry , lol

“In this way both of Lot’s daughters became PREGNANT by their father. ” GENESIS 19:33-35

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


You are the 1st, on this thread, to mention Westboro. I am a baptist and please do not take thier actions as typical for how most baptsits behave, by this statement I am not indicating that you did on your post. Baptists are typically supportive of our troops if not the war effort itself, I do not get their protesting at veterans funerals.
They are protesting our involovement in wars that are in predominantly islamic nations additionally some of their doctrine(s) are similar to what islam teaches; they espouse fatalism, a beleif that what you do does not matter God has complete control so it does not matter if you drive 55mph or 80mph if God wills it you will crash all the same as a result muslim nations have much higher traffic accident rates. Westboro members also have higher accident rates of various types. The whole thing reminds me of how rev. Jones eventually had all his followers beleiving that comunist russia was on their side.

Originally posted by Spooky1

Consider the following:

Christianity was inspired by a guy that preaches TOTAL NONVIOLENCE. A fellow that commands his followers to turn the other cheek and LOVE THINE ENEMY.

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

If some wackjobs that happen to call or consider themselves Christians go off and do awful things: that doesn't have anything to do with Christianity! It has everything to do with them being wackjobs!

O. I. C. TOTAL NONVIOLENCE...

[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

John 2:15

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:34

[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one..." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Luke 22:36,38

And just for lulz

"Jesus said... ‘all who live by the sword will die by the sword.'”

Luke 22:51

O and parts of the old testament is like olde tyme wife beating pr0n.

And I totally didnt underline whackjobs to insinuate Jesus was a complete whackjob himself...

To make my earlier post a little moar clear, since it appears that it may not have been conveyed correctly. It is MY OPINION that religion (yes every religion that I know of) serves no better purpose than to divide the people (not peoples) of this world. Sweet if it helps you make sense of your surroundings or why things happen.

Seriously though (once again, directing this at EVERY religion) please stop trying to make laws that force me or anyone else to obey your god. You know like sharia law or anti-gay marriage legislation or like Sam Brownback's "teach creationism (wink christianity) in Kansas public schools". Honestly Sammy if I want my children to learn about jesus I will take them to church or enroll them in a christian school.

One last thought... It is quite easy to be of high moral character and atheist at the same time.