Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

reply to post by jmdewey60


Kind of like some of the scriptures . huh?

reply to post by SimonPeter

Just a few:
2 Thess.
2 Peter
Jude
Revelation

reply to post by jmdewey60


Let me make another assumption please . You never have studied in depth the Book of Revelations because you believe that you will never have to go through it . This is a common error made by PreTribbers . That's why you must as a discipline believe that the Temple will not be rebuilt and the Antichrist will not cause the Abomination that Maketh Desolate thus 2nd Thess . chpt 2has to be dismissed or your whole interpretation falls apart . Well I'm sorry to say you must also dismiss Matthew 24 as well . Ever thought about re-writing the bible for the belief that you hold precious .

reply to post by SimonPeter

Well I'm sorry to say you must also dismiss Matthew 24 as well

What makes you think that?

And I have studied Revelation a lot, so I am not eliminating Revelation because I don't want to study it, it is because my study of it tells me it is not a Christian book.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I apologize It's not you it's the rest of the world that's wrong !

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

Well I'm sorry to say you must also dismiss Matthew 24 as well

What makes you think that?

And I have studied Revelation a lot, so I am not eliminating Revelation because I don't want to study it, it is because my study of it tells me it is not a Christian book.

Of course it isn't. It shreds all your theology to pieces. Can't have Christ coming again in Glory to where every eye will see Him, can't have those pesky Jews being redeemed and in the land now can we, and we can't have any mention of His blood washing away our sins correct?



Have you managed to rip out the 11th chapter of Romans yet?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Have you managed to rip out the 11th chapter of Romans yet?

Don't need to, just need to read it the way it is spelled out instead of reading things into it that aren't there.

It shreds all your theology to pieces. Can't have Christ coming again in Glory to where every eye will see Him

You are probably thinking of Rev. 1:7. It does not say "again" or "glory". It does say "coming". It also says in verse 1, "to show his servants what must happen very soon." so it would have been describing an event happening close to when the book was written, which would have been around the time of the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

can't have those pesky Jews being redeemed and in the land now can we

"Pesky" is your word, not mine. In Revelation, the 144000 are bought from the earth.

and we can't have any mention of His blood washing away our sins correct?

I doesn't say anything like that in Revelation. It does mention the martyrs who washed their garments in "the blood of the lamb" which would be referring to their own righteous self sacrifice.
So, Revelation supports none of your theology, either, without misquoting it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Have you managed to rip out the 11th chapter of Romans yet?

Don't need to, just need to read it the way it is spelled out instead of reading things into it that aren't there.

So via carnal flesh instead of revelation by the Holy Spirit of God. I knew that already. The natural man cannot receive/perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.

It shreds all your theology to pieces. Can't have Christ coming again in Glory to where every eye will see Him

You are probably thinking of Rev. 1:7. It does not say "again" or "glory". It does say "coming". It also says in verse 1, "to show his servants what must happen very soon." so it would have been describing an event happening close to when the book was written, which would have been around the time of the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

The term "quickly" is the same term we get the word "tachometer" from, it implies when it begins it will rapidly come to pass. It's IS about the revealing or the apocalypse of Jesus Christ Himself, His revealing or 2nd coming.

can't have those pesky Jews being redeemed and in the land now can we

"Pesky" is your word, not mine. In Revelation, the 144000 are bought from the earth.

I was being clean instead of using a word that you feel inside about them. And I know the 144,000 are from the Earth, they are Jews, anointed and ordained to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

and we can't have any mention of His blood washing away our sins correct?

I doesn't say anything like that in Revelation. It does mention the martyrs who washed their garments in "the blood of the lamb" which would be referring to their own righteous self sacrifice.

"To Him who loved us AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen."

Revelation 1:6-7

So, Revelation supports none of your theology, either, without misquoting it.

That's why you do away with the book, it destroys your self-made theology. You cant even get to the 10th verse of the first chapter without reading that our sins are washed away in His blood.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So via carnal flesh instead of revelation by the Holy Spirit of God. I knew that already. The natural man cannot receive/perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.

So why even have a Bible if you ignore what it really says and just make up another idea that you think it should say, if you understand your preacher "correctly"?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The term "quickly" is the same term we get the word "tachometer" from, it implies when it begins it will rapidly come to pass. It's IS about the revealing or the apocalypse of Jesus Christ Himself, His revealing or 2nd coming.

The translators seem to disagree with you in how to understand the use of the word in Rev. 1:1:
KJV • must shortly take place
NKJV • must shortly take place
NRSV • must soon take place
NASB • must soon take place
NIV • must soon take place
NET • must happen very soon
Darby Bible Translation • must shortly take place

If you want to look at the root of the word in the Greek Language, you find it originated with the concept of a short amount of time. What you are talking about is one derivative out of a few, that come from that point of origin.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I was being clean instead of using a word that you feel inside about them.

Since you can't quote anything to back this up, it must be something you have discerned through your prophetic powers. From my point of view, knowing what I really feel, this is more evidence of your being a false prophet.

And I know the 144,000 are from the Earth, they are Jews, anointed and ordained to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So apparently you need no actual biblical text, you just need a Bible to give some names, then you can proceed with your self-granted "prophetic" powers to add to the text what you feel should be there.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"To Him who loved us AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:5

In the translation I am reading, the NETBible version, it reads,

To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood

That's why you do away with the book, it destroys your self-made theology.

If you ignore the bits at the beginning and the end that mention the name Jesus, then you are left with a strange apocalyptic document that seems to have no relationship with Christianity.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

"To Him who loved us AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:5

In the translation I am reading, the NETBible version, it reads,

To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood

That's why you do away with the book, it destroys your self-made theology.

If you ignore the bits at the beginning and the end that mention the name Jesus, then you are left with a strange apocalyptic document that seems to have no relationship with Christianity.

Because it highlights your lack of knowledge of the OT. Out of 400 some verses in Revelation they refer back to 800 places in the OT. It's the fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom promised by Gabriel to Mary. And use whatever Bible version you need to make you sleep better at night President Jefferson.

The tribulation time is the "time of JACOB'S trouble", it's about the persecution that the antichrist will bring upon the Jews to annihilate them, and the faithful remnant will come to their Messiah in the process. (Hosea 5:15, Romans 11)

You HATE the Jews and don't ever want to see them redeemed to Christ. The thought of spending eternity in heaven with any Jews repulses you. To bad our King is the King of the Jews. We are GRAFTED into their tree.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Since you can't quote anything to back this up, it must be something you have discerned through your prophetic powers. From my point of view, knowing what I really feel, this is more evidence of your being a false prophet.

I never claimed that particular jab was from the Bible, it's from personal observation of your posts. You hate the Jews.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The term "quickly" is the same term we get the word "tachometer" from, it implies when it begins it will rapidly come to pass. It's IS about the revealing or the apocalypse of Jesus Christ Himself, His revealing or 2nd coming.

The translators seem to disagree with you in how to understand the use of the word in Rev. 1:1:
KJV • must shortly take place
NKJV • must shortly take place
NRSV • must soon take place
NASB • must soon take place
NIV • must soon take place
NET • must happen very soon
Darby Bible Translation • must shortly take place

If you want to look at the root of the word in the Greek Language, you find it originated with the concept of a short amount of time. What you are talking about is one derivative out of a few, that come from that point of origin.

I agree, when it begins it whill shortly come to pass. Not that it will shortly come to pass at the time it's written. It's the same root we get "tachometer" from. The "here after" portion of the prophecy begins at Revelation 4:1. "Meta Tauta". The future aspect of the prophecy begins right with the first words of chapter 4.

reply to post by jmdewey60


A question if you will . What about Ezekiel's prophecy of the dry bones of Israel and the war of Gog and Magog and remeasuring the Temple . He is saying that this is all in the later days . He dates this event by saying that the Lord will save Israel . This is part of the events starting the Great Tribulation and during the Great Tribulation .
****** Now the big question ;
If you knew that you will have to go through the 1st half of the Tribulation and that you would die in one of those FEMA Concentration Camps for declaring Jesus to be your savior , would you ? Or would you say why, He's still going to let me die anyway ? This is a question for every one .

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So via carnal flesh instead of revelation by the Holy Spirit of God. I knew that already. The natural man cannot receive/perceive the things of God for they are spiritually discerned.

So why even have a Bible if you ignore what it really says and just make up another idea that you think it should say, if you understand your preacher "correctly"?

You have no room to talk, you go to the most liberal Agnostic scholars on the planet to remove ENTIRE books from the canon of scripture that you don't care for. Instead of letting the Word of God define your theology and alter your theology so it aligns with the Word of God you alter the Word of God until it aligns with your theology. The Word isn't a stumbling block to you, you are the stumbling block to the Word.

Thomas Jefferson Theological Seminary.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Because it highlights your lack of knowledge of the OT. Out of 400 some verses in Revelation they refer back to 800 places in the OT.

So you agree with me, then, that the central bulk of Revelation has nothing to do with Christianity, and the "Christian" parts could have been tacked onto a non-Christian book.

The tribulation time is the "time of JACOB'S trouble", it's about the persecution that the antichrist will bring upon the Jews to annihilate them, and the faithful remnant will come to their Messiah in the process. (Hosea 5:15, Romans 11)

There is no future "tribulation" described in the texts you are citing.

You HATE the Jews and don't ever want to see them redeemed to Christ.

Unsubstantiated, false accusations and a personal attack against me. (which I don't mind as long as I am allowed to do the same)

The thought of spending eternity in heaven with any Jews repulses you.

Odd, seeing how Jesus was according to the original definition of the word, a Jew.

To bad our King is the King of the Jews. We are GRAFTED into their tree.

Another one of your spiritual interpretations (apparently you are only a "literalist" when it suites you) seeing how it does not say what you are trying to make it say. What it does describe is a root, which is God's blessings, and two types of branches, the natural that were cut off, and the wild that were grafted on. There is no equating of Israel or the Jews with a tree.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I never claimed that particular jab was from the Bible, it's from personal observation of your posts. You hate the Jews.

I said, "quote". What should have been easily understood from that is that you have no actual quotes from me that would back up your claim that I "hate the Jews", in your words.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I agree, when it begins it whill shortly come to pass.

I don't know who or what you agree with since you are the only one saying that.