Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Preterism all but died out after WW1 and WW2. The world is NOT getting better since 70 AD. Not by a long shot.

I don't consider myself a supporter of Preterism as a belief system, but an sympathetic to some of its concepts.
"Better" is not a criteria so much with me but rather the spread of the Gospel to all the world and the eventual acceptance of Christianity.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Preterism all but died out after WW1 and WW2. The world is NOT getting better since 70 AD. Not by a long shot.

I don't consider myself a supporter of Preterism as a belief system, but an sympathetic to some of its concepts.
"Better" is not a criteria so much with me but rather the spread of the Gospel to all the world and the eventual acceptance of Christianity.

Preterism is an Eschatological position. It's in effect saying we are currently in the Millennial reign of Christ. Which entails a binding of satan, and peace and righteousness upon the Earth.

That's why Preterism was all but abandoned after WW1 and WW2.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Is He the Author of confusion?

Anything in particular you have in mind that you are directing this at?
The verse you were partially quoting was an encouragement to perseverance, not a call for orthodoxy.
I would offer up for consideration your own form of "confusion" by the misapplication of scripture, changing the meaning of it, to further your own goals, as a basic tool that you consistently utilize, and that such a practice is the foundation of the belief system that is the overriding driving force or motivation, for you, on these boards.

I'd suggest pondering why you are alone on and island agreeing with a member who denies Christ.

I'm not alone, so there, and if you understood the Bible, you would know what I mean.
If people agreed with me, then there wouldn't be too much reason for me to be explaining what I think about things. The reason why it would be important is that it is different.
As for making suggestions, maybe you could ponder why you seek the approval of men. And, why you buy wholesale, the thoughts on religion that come from men.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I think that those that examine the scripture with a magnifying glass have zoomed in so close that they lose sight of the word FAITH . Jesus didn't say by what I am doing and what the scribes have written you are healed . He said by your faith you are healed . That statement does not diminish my Lord but makes me wonder how many didn't have the faith to be healed that came forth . Another thing that hits me hard is that Jesus being literally buffeted by those wanting to touch this great teacher felt the power of healing being pulled through the hem of his garment when the woman with the issue of blood reached out and touched him .

reply to post by jmdewey60

maybe you could ponder why you seek the approval of men.

LOL!!! I make men mad constantly, are you new here?

I'm the last person around here than can be accused of catering to the pats on the back and "atta-boys" from men.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I think that those that examine the scripture with a magnifying glass have zoomed in so close that they lose sight of the word FAITH . Jesus didn't say by what I am doing and what the scribes have written you are healed . He said by your faith you are healed . That statement does not diminish my Lord but makes me wonder how many didn't have the faith to be healed that came forth . Another thing that hits me hard is that Jesus being literally buffeted by those wanting to touch this great teacher felt the power of healing being pulled through the hem of his garment when the woman with the issue of blood reached out and touched him .

True. Any many people don't realize the Bible is full of other people's personal experiences and relationship with God and don't seek the same for themselves. They think in the scriptures they find eternal life, and don't come to HIM.

The Way, the Truth, the Life. He's a Person, He wasn't a relationship. He didn't die to give us more rules. He died so we could have a relationship with Him by cleansing us from the sin that prevented it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

considering the Good Samaritan story why does it matter if they don't return our blessings?

I take your question to mean something like this: "In light of the story purportedly told by Jesus, commonly referred to as The Good Samaritan, why should it matter to Christians whether Jews return the blessing that Christians are so eagerly bestowing upon them?"

I will assume that you have the Christian in the role of the Samaritan. The beat up man is any man who happens to be traveling down the road from Jerusalem. There is no distinction made as to the tribe, religion, or status of the man in need. The Samaritan(Christian) helps the man in need. The priest(status) didn't and the Levite(tribe) didn't. The Samaritan is obviously a better example to follow.

What is a Jew? Isn't that someone who identifies themselves as Jew? If a Jew claims the privilege of the promise to Abraham as if it is exclusively to the Jew and not to all Abraham, then should the Christian confirm and reinforce that delusion? I would say no. Ignore the claim that the Jew makes that he exclusively is Israel, that he exclusively is Abraham. Give it no weight.

Let's put a twist to the story.

As the Samaritan was bent over the man, applying the wine and oil, a Jew happened to pass by.
"You, dog. Come move this rock from my path."

Should the Samaritan drop the man to the ground and scramble to aid "his better", or should he ignore "his better" and continue to help the man?

reply to post by pthena


Considering the practical application of the Good Samaritan story why does it matter they don't return our blessings?

You realize Christians follow what Jesus said (or purported to say) correct? He taught to love and to bless everyone, especially people who hated you. That makes Jews prime candidates for bucket-loads of blessings on top of blessings.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So to my question:

"Should the Samaritan drop the man to the ground and scramble to aid "his better", or should he ignore "his better" and continue to help the man?"

You answer:
"He taught to love and to bless everyone, especially people who hated you. That makes Jews prime candidates for bucket-loads of blessings on top of blessings."

Does that mean you would drop the man in need and cater to the delusion of the "self important"?

and since you underlined especially, you must have an especially good proof text in mind to back that up?

You wrote: "Christians follow what Jesus said"
Do you mean to contradict what you wrote just above? "They think in the scriptures they find eternal life, and don't come to HIM... He didn't die to give us more rules."

reply to post by pthena


A:

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."


Jesus narrowed down the "rules" from 613 to 2.

Love God with all you've got.
Love all people as Christ would love them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Jesus narrowed down the "rules" from 613 to 2.

heheh.... atta boy...

*pats NuT on the back*

reply to post by DISRAELI


I believe there is a gift to be given to the Wise, who pray they be found spotless and blameless and at peace with him looking and watching for the day of his coming not giving themselves over to drunkenness with the drunk and riotous living. The gift is for being faithful unto watching and yes, that gift is special unto those who are watching. Those with a measure of His Spirit but not the measure that would keep them from saying in their hearts, "our Lord delays his coming," will miss something truly amazing....the invitation to the feast. Their gift is no less the gift of salvation but that gift comes at a price measured by fire like unto the Laodiceans and is not the gift of invitation to the wedding feast. Unto Thyatira Christ proclaims that those of Thyatira who give themselves over to "Jezebel" will be cast into great tribulation but to those of Thyatira who will repent and turn away from sexual sins and to those of Thyatira who have not known the depths Satan, there is no other burden; Just hold fast til I come.

We see from the very words of Christ that Thyatira will not see the great tribulation while Laodicea is counseled to by of him gold tried in fire that they may be rich, and white raiment that they may be clothed. We see both Sardis and Laodicea laden with the white garments of the martyrs. Great tribulation is for some but not all for some shall receive invitation to the weeding feast and it will be unto those who are faithfully watching and waiting.

Again, this is only according to my very simply understanding but I believe it to be the truth and the very epitome of the hope that we have not yet seen with our eyes.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I'd suggest pondering why you are alone on and island agreeing with a member who denies Christ.

I probably should explain my position. I deny that Jesus fit the description of the Zioncentric post-exile Messiah model. Some gospel writers, such as whoever wrote Matthew, and whoever wrote Luke go to extreme contortions to make it appear as though Jesus fulfilled prophesies.

If Christian means believing that Jesus is Messiah of Judaic expectation, then I am no Christian. If you take that as me denying Christ then that's your view of me.

The Jews had plenty of Messiahs. Josiah the Messiah fulfilled the model to a tee, destroying alters and temples and priests and villages and people that didn't conform to a unitary centralized Jerusalem temple worship.

Messiah Cyrus, King of Kings, sent Ezra as his Apostle to Jerusalem to restore the temple. Ezra ethnically cleansed the city by sending away the wives and children of mixed marriages (according to the Law). The city became so depopulated that a lottery had to be held to force villagers to move to the city.

Under the Maccabean kingdom (the first time Judea was actually independent) there were 3 more Messiahs John Hyrcanus, Aristobulus I, Alexander Jannaeus who quite admirably lived up to the model, leading armies smashing temples, gaining territory, forcing conversions to Judaism at sword point.

Then after the time of Jesus there was Messiah Bar Kochba ruler for 3 whole years over an independent Jerusalem, having militarily driven out the Romans.

Plenty of Messiahs for the Jews who fit the model. Jesus isn't one of them. That makes me not Christian. Oh well!

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

As far as I can tell, you are still equating "watching" with "expecting the return of Christ to come in "Rapture" form.
There is no justification for that.
I am not expecting the return of Christ to come in "Rapture" form.
But I am still "watching" in the sense intended by scripture.
I am not going to "miss out", and nor will anybody else who takes this position.
So there is no need to be so earnest about persuading us.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Take me at my word and define "time of the end" by Jesus showing up again and consider what that means in loo of scripture.

I want to know what you mean because you keep throwing out terms without defining them.

There's only one time of the end. If you don't know what it means to you according to scripture, especially in reference to the return of Jesus then there's not much I can do for you.

Jesus descended in Sheol and set the captives of old free, then he ascended into the heavens. In Galilee the disciples were told that Jesus would return just as they saw him go into the sky. Jesus was talking about returning to the Father and preparing a place for us and his reward is with him when he comes just as he said.

If Jesus could take those people then obviously he can take each one of us when we die, and does not need to come in person in some sort of spectacular way.

No, he doesn't need to but according to his word, he is.

Certainly life can end any moment but not the angels nor even Jesus knows the day our Father has prepared and that day shall not come unless there come an apostasy and the son of perdition be revealed.

That comes from 2 Thess. which is a forgery, meaning not actually written by Paul.

whatever Dewby

reply to post by jmdewey60


The last time that I talked to a Seventh Day Adventist when confronted with the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 verse 29 concerning the " Rapture " , this fellow claimed that Jesus was talking directly to the Jews and it was not for the Gentile . Seems like a trend for the Adventist . If it doesn't agree with the status quo then it must go!

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

There's only one time of the end.

End of what?
What . . exactly is it that ends?
End of Christianity?

reply to post by SimonPeter

If it doesn't agree with the status quo then it must go!

At least you recognize you do not believe in normal Christianity.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

There's only one time of the end.

End of what?
What . . exactly is it that ends?
End of Christianity?

Human government. The rock that smashes the statue made of metal that grows into a mountain that takes up the entire Earth.

Christianity will NEVER end. It's the Kingdom of God.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Christianity is not a religion , it was a slur by the Jews against those that followed Jesus . I believe in the Lord God and his sacrifice for sin through Jesus or the Lord born in the flesh died and risen to glory .
The Lord wrote the whole Bible to all and we are subject to all in it . And if my Lord wants me to endure through the whole Tribulation I will and I will have an extra cruse of lamp oil with me in case he does . PreTribulation Rapture is mans work of the flesh . Jesus in Matthew 24 tells us in no uncertain terms that we will see some Tribulation . Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be shaken .And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with great power and glory.
And He will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of the earth to the other . NOT MUCH WIGGLE ROOM THERE !
Pretribulation Rapture seems to be the stumbling block of the 7th day Adventist .