“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
“A teenager making a stupid You Tube clip may find it hard to get a job ten or twenty years later. I say this is not fair.”

If he or she doesn't have the foresight to see that, that's their problem. Don't blame the system for what stupid people do. That's like blaming the way small towns work (everybody knows everybody and you can't pick your nose without everyone knowing about it the next day) for the fact that Johnny was a greaser, did stupid greaser things, and now can't get a reputable job. Let me put it this way; that kid who did stupid things on You Tube.....I wouldn't want him manning the cameras you posted in your OP. Would You?

I don't agree with your analogy here. The big problem with facebook is that ANYONE in the world can acces that info. Even if you want to delete it.

In a small town, the word says it, it's small. So if you have problems for a stupid thing you did in the past, you can move somewhere else where nobody knows you.

As for teenagers having the foresight to see something like that, i'll just tell you two things : Did you ever made any stupid thing as a teenager? If so, would you tell your future employer the stupid thing you've done 20 years ago before he makes the decision to hire you? (and by stupid, i don't mean illegal. I mean stupid) Is it really relevant to the new job you are looking for to know that?

I guess the answers to the two questions above are : Yes and no. If its that, then you should not say that having done something stupid means that you are stupid.

Peace out.

Every single individual posting in this thread has broken a law of some sort in their life, I guarantee it.

To say that if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about is completely idiotic -- we all make mistakes, we've all broken laws, even the best of intentions have errors. After all, we're all simply human, we make mistakes that can be held against us.

reply to post by chericher


I truly hope I did misunderstand him. But when all is said and done, if your rights are disregarded by those in authority and the laws of the land are changed to reflect whatever societal controls "need to be enforced" so the bad guys don't get away, you have effectively lost your rights. They are only yours if you are secure in the knowledge that they inalienable.

You as a citizen must respected even when suspected of a crime, and that should it be found that there is cause for suspicion that your *right* to fair and humane treatment must still respected right down the line. What's happening now is that you're being systematically stripped of your rights.

Sadly, all the knowledge of those rights and the laws that govern them will not help you in the current climate. All the protestations in the world aren't going to stop the juggernaut government from stripping whatever rights the people have left unless government is taken down fast and hard.

I realise that a lot of people are going to come down on this because they want to differentiate rights and civil liberties. That's fine, but when you really think about it, what is the real difference? Just look at this to see what I mean. Does that look like the work of a country that respects any private person whatsoever? Not to my eyes.

Originally posted by miniatus
The argument that if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about is the worst argument for eroding our civil liberties I've heard.. it always disgusts me ..

As a lot of people have been pointing out in the UK over the proposed surveillance legislation, the Jews, Gays, Unionists, Communists and Intellectuals in Germany didn't have anything to hide either.

The political opponents of Assad, Gaddafi, Mugabe and Putin didn't have anything to hide.

The people opposing our corrupt governments and the failures of their leadership have nothing to hide.

Internet snooping and encroaching on the freedoms of the people under the guise of "fighting terrorism" and "crime" are always abused to oppress and restrict the democratic rights and basic freedoms of the citizens by whichever regime is in power. The same has happened before - every single time - and the same will happen again if we allow it to progress.

Imagine if we had all of this in place right now in the UK, and the Eurozone collapsed leading to a revolution where a military dictatorship took power. They would have access to all of that information.

Even if it did help to fight terrorism, it is not a viable method and the risks to freedom are far too great.

Mark my words, the people of the UK will not allow our government to progress down this fascist path.

Originally posted by Anon77
The simple fact is the governments/people in control don't trust any of the general public. Doesn't matter if you have or haven't done anything wrong. It's all just words written on some document to prove to the public that 'look we've written it into law, if you've done nothing wrong you don't need to worry, we got your back, we're protecting you from the terrorists, trust us'. In actual fact the governments and security forces of various countries are INCREASING their monitoring abilities. They don't care what the law says! Their above that! They really want watch you!? They really want to get you!? THEY WILL NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW SAYS! You can't fight control and command structures like that.

But...

You can make their lives difficult. For instance I have built into 2 of my hoodies and one rain jacket 6 small high powered infrared LED's at the top of the hood and a small battery pack and switch in the back of the hood. The effect is on cctv the infra red LED's dazzle the camera completely obscuring your face. Because they are infrared they don't even look switched on to normal people looking at you and they are very small so not really noticeable. Why do I do this? Call it 'civil disobedience' I have nothing to hide but I do object to my image being collected on hundreds of camera's every day. You can build the same into any hat or headgear.

can you post pics or a youtube video of how to do the LED thing?
sounds like a good idea.

-subfab

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Do you know that no where in the constitution does it say that you have a right to privacy?

The 4th Amendment was set up to guard against unreasonable searches and seizures of property without a warrant. Thanks to the PATRIOT ACT, even that is eroded.

Why would you or anybody else want to justify more and more intrusion into our personal lives?

reply to post by CosmicEgg


It is an interesting position you take, to claim I've gone over the deep end while you, in practically the same breath, first declare that I am imagining that I have rights, only to turn around and assert that there are plenty of people being denied their fundamental rights. If you cannot understand that this denial of fundamental rights is only more evidence of rights and not in any way evidence of they being imaginary, then this explains why you are so ignorant of the law.

This is always how it is with professional victims. The professional victim wants everyone to believe that they have no rights but also wants everyone to understand that they are victims because their fundamental rights have been violated. They are victims so apparently in their minds this excuses their sloppy thinking, and knee jerk reactions.

Why care? If they really want you to "have done something wrong" they will "have you done something wrong" isn't this the way it goes?

A book I read in school I recommend
The End of Privacy by Reginald Whitaker
www.amazon.com... 91391896343528&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_323n94ils3_e

technology in Mexico

gizmodo.com...

Facebook tracking

soshable.com...

Book and website Spychips---by Katherine Albrecht

www.spychips.com...


Minority Report

This may be the dumbest thread I've seen to date on this site. Your a$$ might die if there is a world war 3, ur family too....this is not a joke.

Peace.

reply to post by silent thunder


Starred and Flagged.

Deserving of massive applause.

Once a freedom is taken away, nothing short of a bloody revolution will redeem back that right.

In this case, our right to privacy.

Also, anyone out there disagrees, read Dean Koontz's book, "Dark Rivers of The Heart".

You get the right person (someone with some real power and connections) angry at you and you may find yourself and your family running for your lives, if you're lucky.

We are being tagged and monitored just like cattle.

(I grew up for a few years on a small farm).....................so I mean the above sentence quite literally.

The question is by who?

And I predict, it is only going to get worse.

Now, in order to fly on a jet (unless you are one of the elite and can afford to own or fly on a private jet) you and your children must submit (submit sounds to my ears like slavery) to being filmed naked and that image stored (don't care what they tell you, it's on a database somewhere) and or having your private space violated by a stranger you do not invite to fondle you.

I'm almost 60.

This BS according to my research has been building up since man's creation.

By who and I mean the very top of the pyramid, not the upper or middle portion that manage, we are talking the dictators/rulers.

Year by year, decade by decade I have watched more and more of our freedoms stripped from us.

By nature, if given a choice to fight or flight, I will choose flight. But, if I am backed into a corner and have no path of flight, I will fight and we are at that point, we are all being boxed in good and tight, the truck with the 99% of us on board is headed for the slaughter house and time is running out.

So far, the strategy of "Divide and conquer" has worked, along with "Distract and keep the herd entertained and in a constant state of confusion and fear" so they cannot focus long and hard enough to see the full picture or realize how the few are controlling the many.

Cameras and scanners everywhere except where they should be.

Why do you think there has been a mass of school and public "looney goon" shootings?

Mind programmed, mind controlled sleeping cells, set to erupt at the right trigger.

David Icke spelled it out for everyone almost 20 years ago.

Create a PROBLEM: A rash of crazy, senseless gun shootings, schools, malls, public places.

Nurture a REACTION: Oh my oh my, so many crazy gun shootings, I'm afraid, nobody is safe anymore.

Get the masses to go along with the planned SOLUTION: Confiscate all the guns and with all Americans unarmed, except the military and police, we will all be nice and safe little citizens.

My husband says "If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about".

What about all these, oooops, sorry wrong house, what about all the children we've been reading about being accidentally shot by police????

I no longer see my government or the top men and women running the show as being moral, compassionate or rational. They are immoral, greedy, ruthless to the core and insane psychopaths.

The partial review below is excellent, better than I could describe;

Some will assume that Koontz has concocted an exaggerated scenario in Chapter Twelve, in which an innocent local cop is framed by a psychotic federal agent. Surely the government can't confiscate your house and your bank accounts merely by implying that you're involved with drugs, without convicting you of (or even charging you with) a crime. Can it?

Yes. It can. It happens all the time. All you need to do is to make the wrong enemies (or own the wrong land, as millionaire Donald Scott found out just before he was shot to death in a bogus drug raid). Koontz has done his homework, and he has used the power of popular fiction to expose open secrets that are simply too scary for most of us -- whether we're liberal or conservative -- to think about. Bravo.

The Orlando Sentinel writes: "As it appears, George Orwell was ten years late, and it is left to Dean Koontz to add the finishing touches to an Orwellian future that is here and now. One of his best novels." While I'm not yet prepared to place Koontz in the same class as Orwell, there is obvious synchronicity. Hear them both now, or believe them both later.

Pheasants and dragons!

Review by; By
Ethan Straffin (Palo Alto, CA USA) Amazon.com

reply to post by nixie_nox


You are right it does not. However, the Bill of Rights has certain aspects that protect our rights to privacy. We live in a world that certain people want to control aspects of our lives. My friends, this is a violation of the pursuit of happiness. I believe we should respect others and demand they respect your privacy. Some folks forget that very fact. Goodness will prevail as long as the truth is not hidden from us. To hide under the veil of terrorism or any other banner as a way of invading our privacy is wrong. We have some who use it. We can’t allow it to happen. We must question, trust and then verify.

reply to post by sapien82


Since rights are self evident it is not clear to me why they need to be taught. If anything needs to be taught, it would be this simple maxim:

What causes no harm is done by right, and outside of defense, what causes harm is not done by right.

Our rights are so many that it would take volumes to list if they were to be taught. Since all governments have a natural proclivity towards aggregation of power, it is perfectly understandable why government is either not teaching the maxim I just stated, or worse, doing all they can to refute it. When people come to understand this maxim, suddenly government schemes such as licensing become highly suspect.

reply to post by silent thunder

”You have nothing to worry about if you’ve done nothing wrong”

The whole premise behind "innocent until proven guilty" stems from the idea that no one in authority has any right to search, invade, detain, confiscate or do any testing, frisking, bloodletting, etc., UNLESS you do something that is against the law first. If you haven't broken the law, then they must let you continue on your way completely free FROM all this wanton prying, searching and seizing.

Sadly today, the number of laws on the books are so many and trivial, that it is nearly impossible not to be breaking one somewhere along the line.

Now you are guilty forever in the computer age, and now you are suspicious forever in modern society. Suck it up or start shooting, you lost your guaranteed rights under the constitution a long time ago.

With the powers that be getting away with what their doing out in the open.. why wouldn't they feel comfortable watching us too?

If we allow them to get away with "murder" and "theft", why not look in our direction to see what else they can do to squeeze us of our identity..

My main concern with this issue is that the "PTB" can (and do!!) change the definitions of right and wrong.

As I've said before, I live on 10 acres far enough out in the boonies that FedEx and UPS can't find my house. (I like it that way). Now, my hubby and I both happen to LOVE real tomatoes - you know, the kind you grow in your own little garden, not the plastic ones they sell in the stores.

So we have a little fenced garden and grow our own tomatoes. It's MY 10 acres of land that I bought, am paying for, and pay taxes on. I don't sell tomatoes to anyone and as of a couple of years ago rarely, if ever, give any to anyone. Ya know why? Because it's now a CRIME.

Technically if I give away so much as ONE tomato to a friend or neighbor, I become subject to a huge array of conditions and restrictions, licensing and inspection requirements, and God only knows what else on my poor little tomato garden. For starters, I'm in violation of several "laws" by using "raw" (aged) horse manure on them instead of buying chemical fertilizer at the store.

I won't even go into what happens with my free-range chickens if I try to give away (or, PTB forbid, sell) any eggs. It starts with not giving them antibiotic-laced feed and ends I don't know where.

Have I really done "something wrong" by growing my own tomatoes on my own land? I don't think so. But if things go wrong or I piss off the wrong people, I could theoretically find myself in jail like the guy who was selling raw milk to people who wanted it.

And that's just one simple example. Sometimes I drive out to my trash can (at the end of my driveway) to put the trash out without my seat belt on. But theoretically, as soon as my front wheel touches the public road so I can turn around and go back up the driveway, I've broken the law if I don't have that seat belt on. And ya know, it didn't even used to be a law that you had to wear seat belts! In some Oklahoma town there's still a law on the books against spitting on the sidewalk.So if I cough up a loogy, don't have a kleenex handy, and spit it out instead of swallowing it (eewww!!!), I'm now a criminal. Throw in a surveillance camera and now I'm a convicted criminal.

As long as they have the power to keep changing the laws and re-define "right" and "wrong", no one has "nothing to worry about."

“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

Funny how that statement never seems to apply to the Federal Government and their ilk.

If everything at the Federal Reserve is on the up and up, why to they fight against being audited?

If all is well at Fort Knox, why do they resist public audits?

Why is the 9-11 Pentagon video not released to the public?

Why are Supreme Court hearings not televised on CSPAN?

Why are some details and documents of Barack Obama's life prior to public service kept secret?

Why would the Collateral Murder video need to be kept secret, if those involved did nothing wrong?

Why are we not entitled to as much privacy as the Government?

Originally posted by Skepticesque
Every single individual posting in this thread has broken a law of some sort in their life, I guarantee it.

To say that if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about is completely idiotic -- we all make mistakes, we've all broken laws, even the best of intentions have errors. After all, we're all simply human, we make mistakes that can be held against us.

I think the point is that if you are not doing anything wrong in front of the camera, carrying something you shouldn't when boarding a flight or posting things you'll later regret on social networks, then you have nothing to worry about.

The fact that everyone posting has broken the law and probably gotten away with it actually works against the OP because "even if you are doing something wrong, it doesn't mean you will get caught", so then why worry when you are behaving.

F&S

“If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law.”
Winston Churchill

There will be a day when people will realize that they have become guilty until proven innocent.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Bravo Victor! That is probably the best reasoning on this I've seen yet. I guess we can say that the government has been doing things "wrong" and therefore do have things to hide. Considering how they continue to get away with things because they are not monitored to the extent the civilian population is, that makes it clear that they should be the first to be monitored in such a manner. I'm fairly certain however, that if a powerful government official was caught by CCTV, or other such techniques, they would just have it "taken care of" or some unflattering information from the past would simply disappear or be sealed from public scrutiny. We are the only transparent things in this government.