“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

reply to post by CosmicEgg


I don't need to tell people who've had their rights trampled upon that their rights are self evident, they know it better than anyone, but why don't you take your smug attitude and tell these victims that their rights are not self evident. Why don't you tell the grieving family who've buried their murdered son that this son did not have any right to life and the evidence of this his he was murdered. Why don't you tell the woman who has been raped she did not have a right of choice, or privacy and the evidence is that she was raped. Go ahead, tell the victim of robbery that they had no right to their hard earned property and the evidence lies in the fact they were robbed, and then go on support your contentions by insisting that because others never got any justice, that no one else has the reasonable expectation of seeking justice.

My rights belong to me and always have and it is one thing for you, or anyone else to write that my rights "are no longer valid", but I assure you the moment you attempt to act upon these thoughts you will soon discover your own hubris.

You make arguments for tyranny and somehow expect to be seen as the righteous one for doing so. No one who understands that rights are self evident will grant you the respect you think you deserve for this point of view. You can disingenuously argue that rights are not self evident all you want, just as a misanthrope can hide in a cave all day only to come out at night and point to the nighttime sky and declare: "I see no evidence of any sun." You may find such disingenuousness to be erudite, but for those who know their rights you read as just plain dangerous.

“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.” Followed by "if it saves just one child's life it must be worth it".

I think much of the problem is down to the companies producing this security technology. It is basically the same companies that produce the hardware for the military industrial complex. They have diversified into the security arena and have the same funds to develop these new technologies and the same power over our elected officials. So it is now profitable for these companies to expand these technologies and sell them to more governments around the globe all in the name of fighting terror.

www.vice.com...

I agree with you 100%

I have always dreamed of creating a program to erase every bit of data with my details from every website database ive ever been in !

I noticed alot of people talking about being guilty , we are only guilty of crimes based on acts and statutes implimented later by our governments.

These are not actual law, and not alot of people know this.

"corpus delicti "

misuse of drugs act , specifically
I cannot commit a crime and be charged for it if I smoke da herb
because under corpus delicti I have commited the crime "the act" , the body of the crime
but I havent caused injury loss or harm to anyones property or rights

therefore I cannot be charged

reply to post by silent thunder

S&F
I agree with much of what you said.

I dont have a facebook account, but what gets to me is I'm not able to stop others who know me from posting, info, pics, etc about me on their profiles. It's just too easy to connect the dots through social media.

take a look at this
Social Media seating on Airlines

You can select your best suited facebook profile to be seated next to.

The Dutch airline KLM has begun testing a program it calls Meet and Seat, allowing ticket-holders to upload details from their Facebook or LinkedIn profiles and use the data to choose seatmates.

With Facebook alone claiming nearly 500 million daily active users - more than 60 times the eight million people who fly each day - KLM and other airlines are betting that many of them would be willing to share their profiles in exchange for a chance to meet someone with a common interest or who might be going to the same event.

reply to post by silent thunder


look first i want to say that i totally agree with the OP. Secondly i would like to say that those that are in power are there because they are control freaks and this is the same reason why most cops become cops. These men in power are there to take advantage and exploit the system. So with that said I would have to think that any rights that are taken away from the public are connected to some reason besides our safety! lastly, Whatever this reason is will not benifit or protect the majority!
here are some quotes about power !
It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power.
An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens. Thomas Jefferson
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. Abe Lincoln
We have, I fear, confused power with greatness.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by CosmicEgg

 

You have not made your case any more solid by arguing that one needs to be a legal professional in order to know their rights, and given the fact that I named the lying statute as "1001" should've been your first clue I read the article. What you are insisting on and entrenching yourself in is an advocacy of the very thing you pretend to rail against.

Rights are self evident! No one needs to go to law school to know what their rights are. It is just that simple.

The problem is not just knowing what my right are but how the US court system interpets there unjust laws, regulations and what not! Also recently we have seen a decline in due process! a process that once protected us all from illegal search and siezure. This removal of due process is in my opinion something we should all be railing against. I am tired of seeing our government give more considerations to a corporation then to actual human beings! When will we stand against this kind of oppression? When will we hold our leaders accountable to the words they spout just to get elected? I am tired of the lies. I am tired of those of us not willing to stand up for their rights and those of their families! I'm sorry for ranting but i am damn tired of it all.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


I agree Ex_CT, that's why my beautiful lady and I are living in the county on acreage.The less we have to do with people the bette. C'mon SHTF, then the age of instant communication and surveilance might hopefully be over

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by dreamstalker

 

“ Bertha”, also known as the “Beast of Brussels” is not real, it was a fictional computer from a book:

IT Myths: Does the 'Beast of Brussels' know everything about us?
'The Beast' is actually the invention of Christian fiction writer Joe Musser, who included it in his book Behold a Pale Horse in 1970. In the book a gigantic three-storey computer is located in the administrative headquarters of the then Common Market.

There is nothing under the Dome of the Rock other then some tunnels. The Israels have tried to dig around under the dome, searching for artifacts, and every time it starts a big brouhaha about them trying to undermine the structure of the dome.

Gee I appreciate your input, however I believe we are talking about two different computer systems, there is one in Australia in a Telstra (front) building in Canberra the aussies were put to a vote years ago if they wanted to have a number allocated to their name and it was voted down, so the Govt went ahead and gave every one a number anyway, and all info is stored there and shared with the USA Comp at Pine gap, now if you think it is hard to get into Area 51 should try Pine gap, now as I am basically new to ATS I would like to share another link that I feel has some great Info, not sure if it has all ready been posted.

www.whale.to...

Oh and do you think the big Brouhaha may be a cover for the Comp?

This thread reminds me of when my children were still at school a few years ago. One of my boys had tonsilitis one week and was very sick. He had his antibiotics from the doctor who had diagnosed him, got better and went back to school. A week later, he was sick with tonsilitis again only with an even higher temperature. He again was off school until better and then went back to school again. A few days later he was even sicker with tonsilitis and again the doctor diagnosed him and gave him more antibiotics. After five days he was better and went back to school. Then, I received a letter from the County council education authority truancy 'inspector' telling me that I was no longer 'permitted' to decide if my children were sick or not and that I must always get a letter from my doctor to decide if they were sick. I, their mother was NOT allowed. I went to the doctor who laughed and said to tell him that if he wanted a letter he could pay her twenty pounds first. I rang the head teacher at school who told me this,, that the Truancy Inspector had to JUSTIFY his own job and to do this, because there virtually were NO truants in the school he had to 'pick on someone', in this case me and mine, to prove that his job was important and worth keeping. So, even though my son had been very ill, he had to keep his own 'worthless' job by harrassing me. The head teacher was very helpful and said not to worry and he would attempt to keep the truancy inspector off my back. He did do as a few weeks later my son came down with Mumps! I was terrified! But I had no problems with the truancy inspector.
My point is, that even in these 'jobs', they know that they are not really needed and are really doing a non job and THAT is when the ordinary people are harrassed and persecuted by the 'watchers' who are not needed any way and just can't get a proper job.

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


Again, one does not need to know how the courts interpret legislation - there is no such thing as an unjust law, only unjust legislation - and all that is needed to know is the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and will certainly not work as a lawful defense. People can shrug their shoulders helplessly and wonder how it is they are supposed to know the law when legislatures have enacted more than 600,000 acts of legislation, but that should be peoples first clue that legislatures are not legislating law but instead are simulating a legal process in order to subvert law.

The decline in due process is largely our fault. There is no due process of law when it comes to driving automobiles for licensed drivers, for example, and a police officer can and often times does have your vehicle towed away and impounded even with no charges brought against the driver, or no warrant upon reasonable and probable cause. They can do this because of the express permission that licensed driver gave authorities when obtain a license to begin with. Their signature was a contract, and that contract was an agreement to surrender their right to drive and exchange it for a "privilege" to drive. In doing this that driver also surrendered their right to due process. The same is true when any person, licensed or not, grants a law enforcement officer permission to search their home, person, or property with out any warrant, and this legality is more than enough evidence to show that individuals most certainly do hold the inherent political power, otherwise LEO's wouldn't be asking permission to circumvent Constitutional restraints.

Instead of worrying about when we will hold "our leaders" accountable, why not worry about stepping up and being a leader yourself, and using your brain, your heart, and your courage to jealously guard your rights and zealously defend them instead of wasting your time trying to convince others why it is all really just so helpless?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Yeh ignorance of the law is no excuse , despite legaleese being the supposedly complicated secret code for legal practitioners , we are expected to know both our rights and the law of the land .

Although it is slightly confusing , when legislators impliment acts and statutes which have no legal basis in our legal system , yet we assume they are legal because they have been passed.

Alot in fact if not all of acts and statutes arent actual laws.

Especially here in the UK, no one really knows their rights and how they work with the law. Only if you know your rights and the law you can succesfully avoid being taken in by the law for not knowing your rights and the law.
You can even call a police officer on this , if they dont know the law themselves then you can give them fair warning that you will report them for negligance in their duty to uphold the law and protect and maintain our rights. Not everyone knows this , I think that there has been a large change in the way we are told our rights and the law. We arent educated on our rights in school and thats just he way they want it !

The quote of "if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about" can also go the other way................."if the majority have done nothing wrong, then why do the majority have to be watched/tracked because of the actions of the minority" !
Yet when 19 "hijackers" went through the airports on 9/11, where is the video footage from security camera's, and where is the clear footage of a "plane" hitting a the Pentagon on 9/11 from the most photographed building in the world ?
When these camera's are needed the most for what they are allegedly intended for, the footage is either missing or too blurry to make answer any questions !
Its just another act of Big Brother and anyone that questions it gets the reply of "if you have doen nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about" !

it appears as though we are already being branded terrorists as we are in opposition to our governments and we are already having our rights removed as though we are terrorists !

It would appear the government have already made their mind up on us , we are terrorists until proven innocent, however as we are terrorists we arent granted right to a trial before our peers .

Indefinite detention and torture in gitmo or to Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Egypt, Jordan, Kenya, Somalia, Kosovo, or the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia to name the known torture centres !

reply to post by sapien82


Arguing for the validity of bogus legislation simply because it has passed the legislative process is no different than arguing that murder is perfectly legal because murder happens. Arguing in defense of victimihood as if the victim has every right to be a victim and remain a victim for as long as they wish is a strange and foreign argument to me. Arguing for the right to be a victim is no different than arguing for the right to be screwed over. If this is what you want, you are wasting your time seeking my approval.

You seem to making an argument that the problem is that nobody ever fully explained to you what your rights are, but such an argument only undermines the self evidence of rights. If you cannot understand that what you do that causes no harm then you do by right, and that which you do that causes harm - outside of defense - is not a right, then my efforts here is just a waste of time.

The scariest part of the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

The fact the police don't like cameras pointed at themselves.

Excellent post, but there are two fatal problems with it, in my not so humble opinion.

Firstly, without delving too deeply into families and the multitudinous problems that exist in this day and age, children have not been given enough guidance to not have the simple sense that God (or whomever you choose) gave them. They post anything and everything personal about themselves, their friends, their parents.

They have no barriers and seemingly no understanding how wide reaching this can be. It simply astounds me what children are allowed access to and allowed to do online. As these children grow into young adults, they continue unabated with this open divulgence of things about their college mates, their jobs, their wives, their personal habits.

This is only going to continue - because this is what they have grown up thinking is normal. The whole point is, the people agreeing to this post and the ideas here? We are old. Simply put. We recognize the dangers, but we are too many years late to do anything about it. It is embedded, It's too late. Remember when you used to laugh at your parents and say, "You are just too old to understand."? Welcome to those days. Except, just like them, you understand all too well, and this is a lesson they will have to learn for themselves. Lessen the damage the best you can by staying as far from it as possible. That is all you can do.

No amount of voting, protesting, screaming, whining, or complaining is going to change this. Did you notice while so many were sleeping they put drones in our skies to police us? There is next to nothing left of our rights. The world has changed with the lack of help of the village it *used* to take to raise a child, as it was busy slaving to make their mortgage payments and car notes and to put food on the table and to buy their precious kids everything they wanted. The PC's, ipods, and the cell phones, so they could "stay in touch".

This is what people unwittingly wanted, and when they were looking the other way, someone else took the ball that was smarter and sharper than everyone else, and ran with it. They found a way to capitalize on our ignorance, a way to break our backs.

Secondly, sadly, I have a loved one involved in the legal system. Without going into much detail, I can tell you this. From the ground up, every legal system in this country is corrupt, because no one is looking. Too many people are out to make a buck, out to get something for nothing, or out to take someone for eveything they can get. Not just corrupt, however, but brainwashed as well. Why do I say brainwashed? Because several attorneys I have spoken to don't know simple things about the Constitution and about the law. Things you would expect them to know, and they stared at me, mouth agape, and had to admit to me they were not aware.

Everything about my loved ones' case was done illegally, and yet, we have no leg to stand on without high priced, out of reach attorneys we can't afford. Arrest without a warrant? So? Didn't read you your rights? So? No bail hearing in almost 2 years? So? A Prosecutor turned judge that refused to recuse himself from the case? So? A No Bill from a grand jury yet he was detained indefinitely till they "got the right grand jury"? So? The signature on the True Bill is a person that doesn't exist? So? Really?! Why do I have to lay out the case for them?

But guess who cares? It sure isn't the DA that was just caught fabricating evidence. No siree. No one cares. Not unless you have a few hundred grand, possibly more, "beause you just can't tell with these things". Really? Rights? Where?

This is the state of our Union now. Money talks, and BS walks. Like it or lump it, this is the hand we are dealt now. The only thing that any of us that give a care can do is fight for the scraps we have left and attempt to keep the lowest profile possible so as to not attract attention lest we find ourselves in the exact predicament the OP pointed out, because you can trust in these words, if they want rid of you - they WILL be rid of you.

So get your little precious their cell phones so they can go Facebook and "stay in touch". Be sure to post about your next vacation so someone can find you from the exif info you freely post on your photo albums and come rob your house while you are gone. Post the hillarious vomit pics from your drunken night out so your future boss can show them around the office when you apply for the management position and you get laughed back to the unemployment line. Post smack talk about your teacher so in 15 years when you go for that really good job, you have to face them in an interview. It's a small world.

The worst part about peoples rights is when they give them away by handing over information FREELY.

Someone smarter than your average bear just managed to figure out how to do something with it, and now you all have your knickers in a twist.

Lose lips sink ships, now look what you've done

reply to post by silent thunder

SilentThunder thanks for a really good read. Arguably one of the more subversive "truisms" that gets used against those being concerned about what is happening before us.

We in SA are fighting against the implementation of electronic toll roads. Automated gantries that record every detail of your vehicle, including counting passengers, time of day, speed, direction etc. The main fight is about the money, it's a sudden, illegal tax that has been setup against the few actual workers in the country. But when i try explain to people that the surveillance aspect is more insidious, more dangerous and ultimately much worse, they get this strange look on their faces, they don't mind being monitored 24/7, they see it as a plus(?).

Originally posted by kdog1982

 

It could be worse.
We could be living in Africa in a Savannah worried about predators hunting us down.

See above, i'm in africa worried about predators hunting me down, except ours are in government ....

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

You are inspirational JPL They are a formidable enemy, nonetheless.

reply to post by silent thunder


I agree with everything that you said in your OP ST.

I used to say that a lot,followed by "if you hear me,i dare you... bring it on" But i stopped when i realised the consequences that all this has in our society and in our future.

It's not just the privacy intrusion by the goverments and the corporations.It's our everyday life that's been destroyed.

We are turning,as a society,into a huge bed and most of the times we have no idea who is laying next to us.Everyone ,at any given time MUST know where you are or what you're doing.As a woman i meet a new guy and i'm afraid to do something ,with the fear that next day might be on the net.

I used to read/watch science fiction novels with that concept and i was hoping that they would stay in science fiction,but now we live it.And what's more scary,not the fact that the goverment wants to know for "security" reasons who you are,but that most of the people support the idea of knowing everything about everyone and with ease they give away their personal details.It's the new natural.

I love technology in all its forms,be it communications or entertainment,i used to be one of those people that had to buy every new gadget.When i was in the third grade and my father asked me:what do you want to learn:piano or ballet" i answered computer.Geek since kid

The last few years with all the abuse of the technology i started withdrawing from most of the things.I never had a facebook/myspace account and recently in a conversation with a friend after i told her that i'm against the idea of facebook,she told me that i'm behind my time.

What can we do about it?I'm afraid nothing.People will protest for the blocking of download sites,but they will not protest for the destruction of their privacy."Who cares if the cia knows what i ate last night,since while eating it i watched the movie that i downloaded...."

3 words:BRAVE NEW WORLD

“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.” I wonder if you ask a Jew that may be still alive that survived the Holocaust if that's what they were told as well before they started rounding them all up and systematically exterminating them. Make no mistake about it...the over surveillance of the average citizen is out of control.

reply to post by silent thunder


It would seem there is no end to the ways which we can be tracked by TPTB today.

I just ran across this bit of infor and thought this might be a good place to pass it along.

www.activistpost.com...

There is no need to get all paranoid about it; THEY are just watching us for our own good.