“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

reply to post by badazz


You know, that's a healthy and optimistic attitude.

Good for you.

Although in order to really work, the number of disenfranchised people has to hit a critical mass. With the greed of TPTB the way it is, I assume they won't be able to keep themselves from disenfranchising millions and millions, finally tipping the game against them.

But it might take some time, years even. I don't think we are close to that tipping point yet.

reply to post by badazz


I have to agree with you. The spies are a captive audience. Tell them everything they don't want to hear.

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by badazz

 

Although in order to really work, the number of disenfranchised people has to hit a critical mass. With the greed of TPTB the way it is, I assume they won't be able to keep themselves from disenfranchising millions and millions, finally tipping the game against them.

But it might take some time, years even. I don't think we are close to that tipping point yet.

I agree that I don't think we are close to that tipping point. I was just talking the other day to people I know, but most have the defeatist "what can I do" attitude that they are already beaten. It's sad in a way.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Can I just ask , when were you aware of your rights as a human being ?

If rights are self evident then more the fool the man or woman who doesnt take time to learn of their rights and quite rightly so.
However many people arent even aware of their basic human rights unless they have some drive to go on and study them as you may well have done.

Surely this just highlights the corrpution within our government and their inability to govern if they do not make us aware of the rights they are given power to protect!

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Can I just ask , when were you aware of your rights as a human being ?

If rights are self evident then more the fool the man or woman who doesnt take time to learn of their rights and quite rightly so.
However many people arent even aware of their basic human rights unless they have some drive to go on and study them as you may well have done.

Surely this just highlights the corrpution within our government and their inability to govern if they do not make us aware of the rights they are given power to protect!

When I was only an infant and could not even form a single word let alone a complex sentence I would wail and cry like babies do to get what I wanted. Before I did this, I did not first turn to the Bill of Rights in the Constitution for the United States to make sure I had the right to speech, I simply just acted upon this right, and as an infant.

Later, when still just a child, I understood that the rose does not need a Congress of roses in order to derive the right to keep and bear thorns. I understood the porcupine did not need any decree from a king in order to derive the right to keep and bear needles, and I understood that the skunk did not need permission from the state in order to derive the right to spew its stink. I recognized early on that all creatures, great and small, have the right to life, and because of this have the right to self defense.

By the time I was a teenager, I had crystallized this line of thought into what I have all ready stated (and truth be known, I have often used the rose, porcupine and skunk metaphor in this site as well) that what causes no harm is done by right, and outside of defense, that which causes harm is not a right. This simple axiom takes the burden off of legislatures listing every possible or conceivable right, and takes the burden off of We the People in turning to Amendment or legislation to know our rights. If you are not causing any harm then that which you do is by right. If you are compelled to defend yourself, others, or property, this is done by right. If you have caused another harm which is not defense, this is not a right.

Because I have this basic understanding of rights, it has always been easy for me to recognize when an act of legislation has exceeded its scope of jurisdiction - at least any U.S. legislation, local, state, or federal. The study is only necessary to parry the attacks brought forth by the priest class lawyer sect, but I assure you any ability you might find in reading, understanding, and citing case law will only defeat the mystics if you understand the simplicity of law.

What is the simplicity of law?

All law is simple, true, universal and absolute. Legislation is no more law than a map of Ohio is actually Ohio, or the word automobile can actually be driven, or a picture of Selma Hayek is actually Selma Hayek. Legislation is not law, at best it is evidence of law, at worst it is unlawful.

All law - in regards to civilizations - is founded in the rights of the individual. It begins with the right to life. It follows that the right to life means there is also a right to defend that life. Because all law is universal, I have this right, you have this right, Silent Thunder has this right, Cosmic Egg has this right and every other member in this site has this right, and every person on the planet has this right. Because we have this right, it follows that we have the right to come together and collectively form an organization towards this same end. That organization is what we call government.

It is incumbent upon us all to keep tight the reigns of the government that we've established, and to at all times jealously guard our rights and zealously defend them, and never, ever, ever, blindly trust the government we've established. Because we've granted government a temporary lease on our power, it is easily predictable that this government will naturally gravitate towards an aggregation of power. It is our responsibility as individuals to prevent this at every turn.

Thanks for that I liked your metaphor of the right to exist naturally.

You highlighted the biggest grievance for me in your post , we dont ask for permission to exist
our parents dont apply for license to give birth it;s our natural right to create offspring and if it is our natural right
to exist on our homeworld .
Why then are our governments penalising us for being here!
Surely this is blatantly obvious to everyone that the power we have given to govern has been abused for at least a century , and we have let slip our grasp on our rights.

The power has been transfered to those that seek to govern and those of us who empowered them feel powerless to stop them.

Where is the solution to our problem then when those who have no power to act in the name of law and good will are being opressed by those we have chosen to safegaurd us.

Reform on a massive scale , in justice and in politics and the creation of legislation.
is it just a simple fact of man/women power , is the power really with the people to make these changes
for a better world.
The answer really isnt clear, should I just become a human rights lawyer and fix this myself .
It's all very confusing , I do know this though , now that I know my rights I will protect them and anyone else who's rights are being taken from them or who are being opressed or abused.

reply to post by silent thunder


To everyone who says this... OK sounds great. As long as we start with cameras and live mikes in your workplace with non-restricted full access on the internet. I can't believe we don't have this setup yet, I mean, we pay the salaries with our taxes of all government employies so let's see what we are getting for our money. Unless of coarse you've got something to hide... hummm. So you mean you are exempt from this but we who pay your salries are not... Something smells rotten here. I say we who pay the bills should arrest and indefinantly lock up anyone who opposes having cameras and mikes in all government meeting places. Congress, senate, WALLSTREET,big pharma, big insurance, ect. The threat of this happing to TPTB will suddenly make this whole idea vanish. But now that I said it, I think we who pay should just do it. Any complaints? well there are places for you who don't agree. Anyway after a few hours of waterboarding who would dissagree? Let the fun begin.... I mean as long as you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about... right?

reply to post by sapien82



Robert the Bruce the Elder:

"All men betray. All lose heart."

Robert the Bruce the Junior:

"I don't want to lose heart! I want to believe as he does...(William Wallace) I will never be on the wrong side again."

Braveheart by Randall Wallace


Why are governments penalizing us for existing, indeed! The tragic answer to this is, as it always has been, that they always have, and most likely they always will. This does not mean we are helplessly trapped in an infinite time loop of tyranny. In his treatise Politics, Aristotle describes the cycle of revolutions. He explains that there are two classes of people, the haves, and the have nots. When the haves wind up accumulating so much that the have nots can no longer survive, there is revolution. After this revolution, there is a redistribution of power and wealth, where the have nots get over their anger and eventually grow apathetic while the haves steadily aggregate power and wealth all over again, until the have nots can no longer survive and then there is revolution...

This was what Aristotle had observed about human behavior in antiquity and nearly three thousand years later we seem to be stuck in this same cycle, but the difference between then and now is that we have experienced an Age of Enlightenment, and here in North America, during the time of the Revolution for Independence, there was the Age of Reason. It was reason that allowed humanity to recognize that law is natural and not some human invention. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin did not think that gravity came into play just because Sir Isaac Newton legislated it so, and even so, it is unfortunate language that the Constitution for the United States uses phrases such as "Congress shall make laws..." or even "Congress shall make no laws...".

Jefferson understood the self evident rights of people,and yet he and too many of his contemporary's, in order to keep in harmony with their own understanding of the world, went into agreement with the atrocious "three-fifths clause" that deemed an unnamed class of person as being only "three-fifths" of a person. It was clever priest class lawyer sect language that allowed for slavery to continue, but also allowed for an Amendment to come later prohibiting slavery. Had they written in this "three fifths clause" that all slaves were to be counted as "three fifths" of a person, this would have arguably made the 13th Amendment unconstitutional. So, while it is a clever compromise, it is still a compromise and illustrates handily all that is wrong with compromise.

When it comes to our rights, white, black, yellow, brown, purple or polka-dot; Christian, Jew, Muslim or Buddhist, left, right, center, up or down, all people have the same rights and of this we must remain uncompromising lest we grant the tyrants and their sycophants room to argue otherwise. We must never compromise our rights, not ever.

It is heartening to read your words and know that in this Sisyphusean struggle, you have decidedly chosen to never fight on the wrong side again, and instead to proudly and bravely fight for freedom. This struggle will bring us great suffering, so I would like to end this post with another quote by another iconic hero, from Atlas Shrugged:

John Galt:

"... it's not that I don't suffer, it's that I know the unimportance of suffering, I know that pain is to be fought and thrown aside, not to be accepted as part of one's soul and as a permanent scar across one's view of existence."

I absolutely agree with the OP. The second the government even begins to think about doing anything, we have reason for if not fear, a loud groan at the sheer incompetence, corruption, and arrogance with which it is handled.

boston.cbslocal.com...

FBI uses chainsaw in raid on wrong apartment.

Add situations like these with

* the number of computers the government has lost, along with the information on them (VA, FBI, Los Alamos, etc.)
* their ability to protect confidential+ data (Manning),
* the number of times government databases are illegally used to access info about someone (i.e. Plumber Joe)
* and the potential of being tazed for even going near a US law enforcement officer...

With caretakers like that, we don't really need kidnappers, id thieves, hackers, spies or terrorists.

Sorry... but if the government can't police itself, it has no business policing everyone else like it does. There may be "good people" who work for the US Government. The simple fact that you don't stand up to or against the bad apples in your midst (the majority?) to show their behavior will not be tolerated means - you aren't exactly the freshest produce in the market either.

Now, ask me how I really feel... heh....

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Every single time any tyrant has sprung up, that particular segment of humanity has had the opportunity to rise to the occasion and topple said leader. Every single time. The reason it has seldom happened is because people are too fearful or complacent or apathetic or any number of other sad excuses. The change will come when people reject the idea of being divided. It's the oldest tactic out there: Divide and conquer. And oh boy, look what the media/government has done to us now! How divided are we? Someone either here or on another thread recently mentioned that s/he doesn't even trust her/his neighbors for fear of them doing god-knows-what. See, back when I was a lass we depended on our neighbors. We were welcomed by them, we all took care of each other. The doors in our neighborhood were all unlocked, windows were open. Not anymore. Look at us! We're afraid of our own shadows.

So, keep chiming on about how it's always been and will probably always be. Keep that fear level riding high with those comments. All the book-learning in the world isn't going to teach you to do things differently. To make change happen, you have to live it. Change happens when you make life take a different course. That's the only way. Anything less is repeating history, and when you repeat it, you are not learning from it.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Your level of disingenousness seems to know no bounds. It is far beyond disingenuous to claim that I am fear mongering by explaining the self evident nature of rights, and let's be perfectly honest here; between you and I, I am not the one advocating violent revolution. I am advocating a peaceful revolution where we as individuals step up and assert our rights as we have always been expected to.

Your disingenuousness didn't begin by accusing me of fear mongering. Prior to this absurd claim, you disingenuously lamented the divide between us all while insisting on continuing this divide. What good is having any kind of revolution if those fighting it keep insisting that rights don't exist? If your revolution is successful, God forbid the government we then must face.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Well, I see this is the norm for you? Making a fool of yourself that is. That's another story though. Listen my confused, misled (otherwise drunk) being, Yes, the original reply was to you, but was meant for the poster Intelligence just like I said. I replied to the wrong person, which in this case was you. That is why I edited it. Bingo! Comprehend it now? Get over yourself, you're not that important. ~$heopleNation

i like to sound 'internet' alarms that will ring the bells in covert survelience technology, particularly key-word based mass-interweb scanning programs controlled by insanely illegally oppressive intelligence agencies. i then enjoy the narcissistic thought that alll these agents and operatives are conducting investigations on me, while i laugh my arse off knowing i am not guilty of any crimes. if they want to play police state when in fact we are mostly civil-monkeys here, i like to think they wasted their keystone cop hate on lil ol innocent meh as morons dissipating a fugly culture should. heh.

reply to post by badazz


Hoka Hey!

I am just now seeing this thread, and have NOT even read the OP, or any of the responses (just the title).

But, I am going to say the following - let's see where it heads (or, how in tune I was with the thread)...

I don't care what side of the coin you're on, "Wrong" is being redefined every day - in such a way that more restrictions are being put on people so that more 'wrong' is committed than 'right' so that more control can be imposed on people, at will. (and, within the 'law')

Americans believe that we are the 'freeist country in the world' because as long as you 'obey the law' it is believed that you will prosper, here.

But, if you keep constricting the laws, it makes even the most loyal subjects unwittingly violate new laws, rules and regulations, and find themselves under the thumb of a tyrant.

Interesting times, we live in.

reply to post by silent thunder

Really good post and excellent reasoning.
i have come to believe that the posts promoting the "If -you -haven't -done -anything -wrong-there's -nothing- to- worry -about" crowd are government shills.
I believe those replies are meant to deter and discourage freedom of speech and in particular cogent observations like yours. The post from the person who observed the outrageous military presence around Wall street, NY and DC
was jumped on almost instantly...by these shills, I think.
We MUST take the obliterations os our rights seriously and privacy is fundamental to other rights!

reply to post by SheopleNation


Only a fool would deride what he doesn't understand.

And in this case the fool is you.

All governance starts within, when you're looking outwards you're missing the point entirely.

Originally posted by harryhaller
Only a fool would deride what he doesn't understand.

Nice of you to join the discussion. Oh really, so what is it then that you understand so clearly about freedom?

And in this case the fool is you.

That comment is nothing more than proof that Boredom does have it's priveledges.

All governance starts within, when you're looking outwards you're missing the point entirely.

Huh? What the hell kind of feel good mindless drivel is that? You're basically speaking out of your rear end now and I doubt you even know what the hell you're talking about at this point. It's comedy at it's finest.

How about this, Instead of calling me a fool, Let's discuss the subject of the thread and start off with you explaining to us all the point that you seem to think that you know, Do you even have one? ~$heopleNation

legislative nightmares - guys in 3 piece suits - tellin WtP 'they' are watchin.
who watches the watchers?
if yer a watcher - give it up - find another paycheck.
watchin just aint AMERICAN.

this is amazing news