On Tour In America & It's A Police State. No Doubt About It.

Originally posted by MrSandman
reply to post by fleabit

 

I think all the laws are half the problem. Let's take the seat-belt law for example. Why is it a crime if I don't wear a seat-belt? I'm not harming anyone but myself (unless I go flying through someone's windshield). I consider crimes to be murder, robbery, assault, rape etc.

What about the government telling us what light bulbs we can buy? Haircuts are not immune either. "Everyone now needs to get the same haircut so we can easily identify foreigners who may be potential terrorist suspects"

When the government is free to do what they please without any outcry from the citizens the oppression will only get worse.

I'll have to agree with you on this one, though.

This # is really getting out of hand if you ask me.

Police state? Not yet by a long shot. But we're inching closer and closer to that every day, IMHO

Originally posted by johnlucchese
I'm in NYC every day, I walk right passed the Bull....W-T-Heck are you talking about? Just yesterday I saw a bunch of chinese kids taking pictures right in front of the Bull.. - you can't climb on it, but you can take pictures right next to it....

You are full of crap....

Yes, he is full of crap. Again, I was in NYC just last week. I had a family picture taken with the bull AT NIGHT. Sure, I couldn't just walk up to it and rub...because we had to wait in line while the others got their pictures taken. Yes, there was a guard there, and he was very nice.

We DID NOT have to wait hours before we could see the WTC memorial. We did have to go through a security check point which was not a big deal. While at the memorial, we talked to some guards there who were very nice and answered our questions politely. I did not get any sense of a police state, lol.

We also went to the Statue of Liberty. The line was long and the ferries are slow, so it took a while, maybe an hour wait. We went through one check point. It was nice and easy. We had a great time. I didn't see any sign of a police state there, unless you consider the security check point to be a sign of it, lol.

We even went to China Town, where counterfit purses, watches, dvds, etc. are still sold like crazy. Everywhere you walk, you hear, "Purse? Watch?" etc. Police state? I don't think so.

To get on the subway or bus, I never went through one security check point. Walking down the street in Times Square, I never went through one security check point. We had a great trip there.

You know when I was living in the USA (from 2004 to 2010) I was expecting to see this. Sure in airports, especially around anniversaries of 9/11 (I HAD to travel on one of those in 2005) it's a mad house (that is to be expected). But for much of the USA it's NOT that bad. I lived in Milwaukee, and to be honest a terrorist attack would improve that City (joke, I promise Joke), and when I traveled the rest of the USA it was fine. Yeah DC was harder and NYC too, but it's not like either is a place that is known for it's ease of travel

Back in New Zealand, the biggest difference I see is the cops are not habitually carrying guns. That is about it.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

USA has issues but it isn't really a police state, sure it could be eventually but it isn't there yet. North Korea is a police state, USA is nothing like it. If it were, all of us on here would be sent to a labor camp already.

Exactly. I certainly don't like the direction we are headed in, but claiming America is a police state is not factual. Complaining about waiting in lines also irritated me. What do you expect to be doing if you're a tour director?

Ironic really when you consider the US has the highest prison rate in the world.

Originally posted by boredsilly
Ironic really when you consider the US has the highest prison rate in the world.

Maybe that's because American prisons aren't that bad? You get food, tv, recreation time, a bed, etc. It's not like some countries where you might get your hand chopped off for stealing something, or get lashes across your back for spraying graffiti.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by boredsilly
Ironic really when you consider the US has the highest prison rate in the world.

Maybe that's because American prisons aren't that bad? You get food, tv, recreation time, a bed, etc. It's not like some countries where you might get your hand chopped off for stealing something, or get lashes across your back for spraying graffiti.

ridiculous argument ... until you live in hell on earth, the most miserable police state on the planet like North Korea you can't say anything about how you're losing freedoms or approaching a police state. Only when you are completely incapable of saying anything negative about the government can you say anything negative about the government.

Great logic!!

... this wasn't just for you but all the others using this line of "reasoning"

Here's a picture of my youngest daughter taken last Saturday night at the Bull on Wall Street. We are definitely in a police state.

Originally posted by fleabit

Would you rather live free and die in a terrorist attack or live a long life devoid of freedom? I think a lot of Americans need to really ponder this question.

I think you need to ponder what "devoid of freedom" means. So many Americans are now spoiled to the point of incredulity. For them, freedom means "do whatever I want, whenever I want, no one better try to stop me." People don't give a damn to help their country - they just want their "freedoms." While in other countries, they decide the type of HAIRCUT you should have. You don't KNOW "lack of freedom."

As long as you stay within the bounds of the law, you can do pretty much any thing you please. Again - security measures at airports and national monuments, while annoying and quite possibly overdone, is in NO WAY a "police state." This entire thread is a huge pile of misinformation and fear-mongering.

Wrong again. This country IS heading toward totalitarianism and a police state. While it may not be at the point where big sis decides we all need butch haircuts like hers, it is in fact headed in that direction.

Better to discuss it now rather than later, eh?

You can keep grazing, though. This apparently doesn't concern you anyway.

Originally posted by poloblack
reply to post by nightstalker78

 

Security? Give me a break. If they were so concerned about ''security'' in the nation's capitol, why the hell does D.C. have one of the highest crime rates in America? You really believe these people are concerned about your security? And who are you to tell someone that they need to move to another country because they disagree with a growing police state? Unbelievable!!

Of course D.C. has all the highest crime rate in America... thats where all the politicans work and everyone knows that they do more scandelous crap then any regular citizen could ever dream of...

Wanna stop crime in DC... go to the Capital and arrest everyone of those criminals we call politicans and president

Originally posted by boredsilly

Ironic really when you consider the US has the highest prison rate in the world.

That may be true or may not be true, but it is still an asinine argument when you consider people are brought to justice in one country more than in others.

A way to test this yourself is to go walking around some countries with very low incarceration rates and see how long you survive.

Originally posted by izero
With all the crazy gun laws America has, I for one would be glad for the extra security, if I ever visited.

Pretty sure I remember seeing images of security scanners at American schools prior 11 September.

How about you don't visit, then? What with our crazy gun laws and all. Better to be safe than sorry.

And the scanners - those were metal detectors, used at only the most dangerous inner-city high schools where kids routinely try to sneak in knives and guns. Very small number of schools.

reply to post by MRuss

I'm in DC, and New York and Boston a lot, and I do tours in Canada and the rest of the world, too.

Where in the (rest) of the world have you been on your tours? (bolded mine)

I realize that the perhaps inconvenient, trumped up security in tourist spots in the US has increased in recent years; I even strongly agree that America is not headed in the right direction as far as a "big brother" mentality/presence that we are not accustomed to, nor do many of us desire.

But please identify the other countries you speak of, as I have experienced far worse conditions in other parts of the world including full-body pat-downs to enter certain spots or even hotels.

America is not a police state...yet...no doubt about it....

you know what? how about we fix the problem. the reason nothing gets done is becauseNOBODY, or very few are actually on the same page, and rarely with accurate, if the same information. so how can we do anything about it when we the citizens are calling people names, disagreeing, and just fail to see EACHOTHER'S point? the problem isnt whether or not to put up security, the question is what can change so we dont need security. unhappy people will make others see their point sometimes, even if it costs them their lives. a child will act out if you keep it locked up in a room all day, why wont we act up when were kept from basic, freedoms. yea, the us has this ruze that were free, but theyre enacting laws and WILL hit us all at once. you see the chess pieces gettin ready to strike, just listen for the checkmate now. stop arguing and disagreeing with eachother so much, start being open to others views and understand that just because you can do what you want as long as you toe the line, its not like that everywhere. i know someone who is in jail right now, and has been for 3 weeks. here in ga, you get arrested, and go see the judge on monday. NO MATTER THE CHARGE. they can keep you for up to 2 yrs without seein the judge. he finally saw a lawyer and guess what? the lawyer is presenting his case to the judge because its pretty obvious the "duo", yes they put that in their report, had to take down a 130 lb man for resisting arrest. how in the hell do you get arrested for resisting arrest? i live with this guy and we work day in and day out together. he is a very integral and upstanding person. but he LOOKED suspicious and they pounced. anyway, bein taken to the da and he said its pretty obvious he got bullied into getting arrested. so yea, you tell me this isnt becoming a police state and ill tell you that warm yellow water runnin down your head is rain.

reply to post by MRuss


99% of the security on Wall Street is due to fear of protests and unrest. America is pissed off and the government recognizes it.

The new fear isn't some Islamic maniac, it's the concerned American.

Originally posted by Hawking
No problems out here in West Texas. People seem to do what they want, when they want.

I've been pulled over a couple times here and the cops are reasonable and fair when they could have really nailed me (may just be because I'm white though).


My advice: Get out of places like DC, NY, LA, SF, etc.

texas here too! but you know we wont be "free" forever. Its slowly making its way around

reply to post by Doc Gator


I live in this city, I was charged with a public drunkeness and I was not drinking after the police told me they saw me trying to solicite a hooker, then it was drugs, and then my ID wasnt good enough I had better come up with something better. Ive dealt with the court I plead not guilty granted I did tell the officers after they said my valid drivers license wasnt good I did tell them to **** off. I didnt even get to talk in my own court case I tried to explain I was walking home from work early at 1:40 AM I usually work a 12 hour shift I was surrounded by police with weapons in and out of uniforms and the judge said Im a vile human and Im guilty. Im sorry but I have a bad taste in my mouth about law and legal authority I lost my job on a dui I got found not guilty on in the same city as well. I just have a hard time buying these people work in my best interests. Sorry I am so random alot to say and I am not providing links to my cases but I will say that I truly believe in the good ole boy club and I do believe in a police state around my area in a lot of regards. Thank you for trying to clarify for me though, I still maintain if your guilty say your guilty dude is guilty I didnt realize a judge can say ok well you are not guilty let the jury decide. Third degree murder lol the guy isnt going to get a lighter sentance.

It is like that because it has been planned like that.....9/11 was an excuse for them to monitor my phone calls, hell, even monitor every keystroke i'm doing right now...

Originally posted by Domo1
I go shooting whenever I want

Just that line says so much about you!
Oh brother

reply to post by Domo1


CHANGE:

1. Stop invading countries.
2. Stop killing random people.
3. Stop killing American citizens and pretending there is some supralegal excuse to do so.
4. Merge the regular court system and the FISA court system...a crime is a crime is a crime, special circumstances sound like guilty before proven innocent to me.
5. Stop trying to be a "force civilitrice"...American style democracy is NOT working, why export it?
6. Get money out of politics and forbid lobbying.
7. Reduce term limits and pay for politicians.
8. Mandate federal and state funds for qualified candidates to any position.
9. a.)Equal air time means equal air time, no special CNN-MSNBC-FOX barrage of debates.
b.) No campaigning until two months before the election...4 years of campaigning is WAY too much, it desensitizes the electorate, trivializes the issues and makes a spectacle out of the whole process..."WASHINGTON: The longest running reality program EVER!"
10. So-called media may say or play whatever they'd like, but they may not call themselves "news" unless they provide equal, rational reporting: Who, what, where, when, why...next story...who, what, where, when, why...next story...
11. Take money out of news, no advertising during news; no soft-pieces that are 30 minute commercials guised in some sort of newsworthy format. (Also, commercials may no longer pretend to be a news bulletin).
12. Legalize all drugs; provide clinics for the small percentage that become addicts.
13. Discontinue all aid to foreign nations, especially for "defense".
14. Forbid the disaster capitalism mindset altogether.
15. Get away from oil.

That ought clear up some issues and certainly make the whole concept of the War on Terror not only moot (from the standpoint of the propagandists) but total vaporized (from the standpoint of so-called would-be terrorists...where's the beef? There won't be any.) There goes the money (from any angle: media, politicians, defense contractors) that would otherwise come before people's rights, let alone their lives. There goes the impetus for any supposed War on Terror (from any angle: War on Drugs, War on Islamo-fascism, War on Anti-Colonialism)...if there is no colonialism and no illegal drug trade and no East-West conflict or propping up of dictators, there can be no scars of death and destruction and thus, no blow back.

What can I say, I'm a dreamer.

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by Doc Gator

 

I live in this city, I was charged with a public drunkeness and I was not drinking after the police told me they saw me trying to solicite a hooker, then it was drugs, and then my ID wasnt good enough I had better come up with something better. Ive dealt with the court I plead not guilty granted I did tell the officers after they said my valid drivers license wasnt good I did tell them to **** off. I didnt even get to talk in my own court case I tried to explain I was walking home from work early at 1:40 AM I usually work a 12 hour shift I was surrounded by police with weapons in and out of uniforms and the judge said Im a vile human and Im guilty. Im sorry but I have a bad taste in my mouth about law and legal authority I lost my job on a dui I got found not guilty on in the same city as well. I just have a hard time buying these people work in my best interests. Sorry I am so random alot to say and I am not providing links to my cases but I will say that I truly believe in the good ole boy club and I do believe in a police state around my area in a lot of regards. Thank you for trying to clarify for me though, I still maintain if your guilty say your guilty dude is guilty I didnt realize a judge can say ok well you are not guilty let the jury decide. Third degree murder lol the guy isnt going to get a lighter sentance.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the courts. I know it's no consolation, but almost everyones experience with the criminal courts is unpleasant. If you every have another encounter with the police in which you are a suspect, you have to remember that they are NOT your advocates. That is not to say that they are bad (some are), they are doing their jobs and their jobs are in direct conflict with your best interests.

Never talk to the police without a lawyer present. You have the right to remain silent. Use it. The police are highly trained at getting you to say something that they can use in court. You can not talk your way out of getting arrested. You can not talk your way out of going to jail. There is absolutely nothing that you can say that will help you. ANYTHING that you say WILL hurt you. Did I mention to never talk to the police? If you think you can help yourself by talking to the police, ask your lawyer first. I guarantee that they will tell you to not say a word.

I realize that this advice is a little late, but maybe it will help you or another ATS member in the future.