On Tour In America & It's A Police State. No Doubt About It.

reply to post by jazzgul


So you come on a forum, where people debate ideas and you claim that if any debunks it, they are trolling and it confirms the poster is right.

How conveinant for you.

if it is not a personal attack and is a response that is only countering what the person is saying, it is the filling the purpose of the forum.

The purpose of ATS is to vet information, how can other people accept ideas when you can't even get it past the quick eye of the posters on the site?

Long ago when ATS was smaller with people acually posting outside of the box ideas, and not trying to propose their naive opinion as fact, you better be able to back your stuff up, period. Because the tightest judges were here.

reply to post by Doc Gator
When were you last in China? I was there for three and a half months on business about a year ago and did not experience the things you refer to. Sure, there was some security (private) but otherwise hardly any police security visible at all. My movements were never restricted and I never noticed the vast amounts of CCTV cameras I see in the west. Perhaps you were there a few years earlier..

As a side note: I felt much freer in regards to doing business in China than I do in so called "Western Countries." Less Government interference, duties, taxes, red tape etc. They're heading in the right direction whilst we flounder in an increasing cess-pool of rules and regulations. Do you know what they do to people in China for serious white collar crime? They shoot them. In America, they give them a golden handshake.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by MRuss
Today we were touring Wall Street and you can't even walk up to the bull anymore and rub him for good luck. It's cordoned off and a policeman sits there all day in his police car two feet away to make sure no one hops the fence and touches the bull.

The police presence is due to the Occupy movement as there were threats of vandalism made towards the sculpture. I am usually down in that area once a week and you can still get your picture taken (as was previosuly mentioned) if you ask.

You actually believe there needs to be a police pretense in the event of youth with spray paint? Seriously? Armed defense 24/7 necessary?


www.homedepot.com... can anyone say "cost efficient"

Originally posted by nightstalker78
I don't live in D.C. so I don't care.D.C. has been a ghetto for a long time.And it probably always will be.Don't take what I said out of context.He was rambling on about the national archives and the lincoln memorial.That's all I was talking about.Don't forget the white house.

You and the op think this is a police state?Go live somwhere else for a few years.Seriously.Do it.You're bitching about America..go live in say...somewhere in the middle east.Do it.You won't.You know why? Because you'd rather just bitch on a website about how terrible the US is.But neither of you have the balls to change it.Or to go live somewhere else and realize how good you have it here.

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: spelling :x

No worries, I'm sure the television would tell us if we were turning into a police state.

Originally posted by MrSandman
reply to post by fleabit

 

I think all the laws are half the problem. Let's take the seat-belt law for example. Why is it a crime if I don't wear a seat-belt? I'm not harming anyone but myself

This question is almost quaint.

Because the roads belong too and are maintained by the state or muncipality.
It is also their EMS service that has to scrape you out of the car if your in an accident.
And people who don't buckle up cost everyone else A LOT of money.
Almost 70% of death by auto accidents were because people were not wearing seatbelts. Its the largest contributer to auto accident deaths.
But if the person isn't killed, the hospitalizations costs on average for injuries involving the non-belted are 50% higher.
Those costs are paid by the taxpayers.

If EMS have to respond to an accident with injuries, it costs on average of 50,000.
The average American pays 500 dollars a year just toward vehicle crashes for the EMS.

That is why.

reply to post by nightstalker78


Lol what's the reason? Everyday people like you and me can't be trusted? That's the vibe I'm getting. Do you really buy into this bollocks?

And who the hell gets offended by people calling America a police state? What else would you have us call your horrible country? A paradise? Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the American people. But your nation as a political entity is a monster. I stand by unashamed by that statement, and if you take offense to it, you're a god damned fool so indoctrinated by national pride that you can't see your own bars inches from your eyes!

America IS a police state. Fact. Truth. Being offended by that is like having cancer, and then getting offended when people tell you that you have cancer.

Americans.... intolerable idiots blind to their own conditions, right up until they destroy themselves. Is that the legacy you guys want to leave behind for your children's children to read about when the future fascist world government is educating them about America's 21st century decline in school?

As for those asking for solutions: here's one, tell your f*cking friends and neighbours, make an effort to get the information out there. You don't have to tackle these cops down with your bare hands to win your country back. You just have to spread awareness to as many people as you can that THIS IS NOT NORMAL NATIONAL BEHAVIOUR. You are being f*cked. If you brought your mouth up from your government's genitals once in a while you might actually notice the sensation!

I promise you one thing, if every American woke up tomorrow knowing the reality of the situation, there'd be a revolution before breakfast. But you're too busy bickering among yourselves in classic American fashion to find the energy to drag your country out of the quicksand its sinking in. You'll be arguing about who's responsibility it is to save your country right up until your little town is enveloped by mushrooms clouds. Who will you guys blame then, when you can no longer blame each other?

We already know and there isn't going to be a revolution.

Originally posted by ozwest
reply to post by Doc Gator

 

When were you last in China? I was there for three and a half months on business about a year ago and did not experience the things you refer to. Sure, there was some security (private) but otherwise hardly any police security visible at all. My movements were never restricted and I never noticed the vast amounts of CCTV cameras I see in the west. Perhaps you were there a few years earlier..

As a side note: I felt much freer in regards to doing business in China than I do in so called "Western Countries." Less Government interference, duties, taxes, red tape etc. They're heading in the right direction whilst we flounder in an increasing cess-pool of rules and regulations. Do you know what they do to people in China for serious white collar crime? They shoot them. In America, they give them a golden handshake.

I was there from January 96 until half way through 98. There were very few westerners there when I was there. I'm sure there has been a lot of change since then. Hopefully for the better. When I was there, it was very difficult to do business, as a matter of fact, at times it was impossible. It sounds like they have come a long way. That's fantastic. The Chinese people are some of the nicest and most generous people that I have ever met.

Yeah, they were shooting white collar criminals when I was there. And Christians. And Muslims. And homosexuals. And drug addicts. And dissidents. And factory managers who didn't meet production quotas. I don't say that to be flip. It's a tragedy and I hope that those policies have changed.

Originally posted by arollingstone
reply to post by Malcher

 

Another overrated, mediocre piece of literature being referenced. Seriously if people want to be left alone just go live in the woods like Ted Kosciski did. Thing is people dont want that so of course if you live in a city thousands of eyes will be upon you and so what if they are CCTV camera's.

As I said, Orwellian is putting it lightly - I tend to avoid cliches. However, 1984 definitely is neither mediocre or overrated, to suggest as such is ridiculous. We'll save that for another thread mind you, don't mean to derail this one.

I'd be more than happy to retire in the wilderness, but I'm young and have a lot to achieve and therefore want to live in a big city. I do appreciate your point, as long as it doesn't interfere with me or anyone else unreasonably then I'm fine with it. However, it is representative of the paradigms and problems that are digging us into a hole.

The UK has a stunning number of CCTV cameras and sure sometimes they help solve crimes. But combined with other legislation the government is trying to push through, on top of existing legislation, it could pose a significant problem at current, if not in the future.

I appreciate you trying to be the down-to-earth realist but under your logic, the problem is not that our society resembles dystopia more than utopia but that we choose to remain subject to dystopian conditions. That is a dangerously flawed paradigm.

edit on 10-4-2012 by arollingstone because: (no reason given)

I think 1984 is overrated in terms of people equating it with reality. If i am walking around a big city i am always mindful that someone may be watching me. Not making a conscious effort to observe me just for the fact that so mant people are around to see you so being on closed circuit t.v is not really an issue for me. Just like walking into a business and seeing all the security cameras dont bother me at all. One thing i will say related to this and may be hard to understand is something i will never forget being told many years ago that stuck with me. I was on a job with a number of other people say around 35 other people on the same job. It was a good job with a lot of freedom, yet another guy and I were watching people leaving early and doing things they should not have been doing and this guy looked right at me and said "we're our own worst enemies". Now do you think that one simple line is somewhat related to the CCTV cameras you alluded to? Meaning that if there was no one robbing other people, no one brutalizing other people would there be any need for these camera's? I dont know...are we (humanity) our own worst enemies? If not us then what is?

Same for seat belt laws, if people just accepted their own debilitating injuries or death due to no seat belt would we have a law that tells me to wear a seat belt? I seriously doubt it.

Helmet laws for motorcycles is the same thing because someone not wearing a helmet gets a serious injury should just be "well you decided to not wear a helmet so what did you expect to happen in an accident?"

reply to post by Doc Gator
I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you returned to China. I try to stay open-minded, but have to say prior to entering China, I had the same pre-conceived prejudices most "Westerners" have. I was pleasantly surprised. Sure they have a long way to go, but they are heading in the right direction. Sadly we (so called Western Democracies) are not. And yes, I love Chinese people, I married one.

Well I'm glad to hear security is better in some places. I remember before 911 one day I was driving out in the country about 30 or so miles from a major city. It was a holiday. Anyway I got lost. I saw a nuclear plant was nearby. I decided to ask maybe a guard or someone for directions. Without saying too much, I noticed the facility's gates were wide open and there was nobody around. I did see a no trespassing sign so I decided to leave and try to find my way. I thought security must be pretty slack during holidays.

My brother joked that maybe they had a radiation leak and were watching me underground to see if I suddenly keeled over. I was surprised a nuclear power plant would be left wide open with no guard. I imagine security is a lot better now. I haven't been glowing in the dark too much either. One night I was but someone spilled some liquid on me. I thought it was strange how it glowed for a few hours on my skin.

If you follow the traffic laws I rarely get stopped by the police.

I'm not worried about too much security, I keep thinking of several ways it could be improved. That might be because resources for security are probably not that high away from all the high profile cities. I'm more concerned about a lack of security and crime. Of course there is no security around when you could use someone. I know of a night club where cars are vandalized. No security anywhere in that area.

I remember hearing recently in one town in our state, the sheriff went on the news recommending most people to carry a gun because the police can't be everywhere. That would be cool if my car had a security sticker on it. As soon as someone threatened my car gun turrets could pop up out of the car roof or hood, point at the threat, and a voice like Clint Eastwood could threaten whoever threatened my car. Now that would be a good security system especially if it was legal to shoot bullets if attacked.

In a country where any lunatic and his gang banger brutha can tote military level firearms, a 'police state' is the least one would hope for as a law-abiding citizen who'd rather not get shot.




Just sayin'...

Dam right your America is a police state. look at your rights all going away.

for the ones that say its not you have it good you probably have local people as cops.

Wait to they start making the police rotate to other county's, then there won't be such nice cops in your town.

Thats what happens here in Australia they don't be a cop in their own town, they be a cop about 10 km to 50 km away from there home town.

You see what it does is stop police from having to deal with their own conflicts of interest.

a city is larger, a county is smaller, of course the city cops are going to be brutal they don't know anyone in these cities really. then by doing a county switch the same will follow.

I didn't mean to post and ditch--but I'm on tour and can only reply at night.

I'm in DC right now-----

I think the point I was trying to make has been misconstrued. The arguments here in this thread have no basis in reality.

Anyone who believes that our lives have NOT been irrevocably changed in the past twenty years is living in a dream state. I'm out here everyday in the world--going from city to city--country to country--and in some cases continent to continent---and I can't name one place that hasn't at least been in the sphere of the ripple of change.

Ground Zero to this change is in the United States of America. I smell it, live it, feel it and make my living from it everyday. If you don't believe that our freedoms have been challenged, revoked, stampeded over and brutalized, then I ask you this:

Why are you on ATS?

That's what most of us are here to challenge, to talk about and debate.

A good majority of the people who post here believe some faction of our world has taken over our liberties, our life and our pursuit of happiness and that they must be stopped.

If you believe that nothing has changed and this ridiculous police state we've become is a neccessary evil, then I advise you to close your shutters and crawl back under your beds. That is where you belong.

Right now in the history of our country--of our very own lives--we need good soldiers. The people who are willing to open their eyes and remember what this country once stood for. We need you to stand up for who and what we are as a people.

Those who disagree with my assesment must at least step back for a moment and consider that I might be right. Use your logical thinking, use your discretion and your suspension of your own beliefs, step back and consider how things have changed over your life times.

We, the people, need you to do this.

Now.

Because later may be too late.

Originally posted by amraks
Dam right your America is a police state. look at your rights all going away.

Which rights are you referring to?

Originally posted by Domo1

I'm a tour director.

Change careers if it's that big of a deal to you. Saying America is a police state is ridiculous and insulting to anyone who has ever had to live in such a horrible situation.

They aren't protecting against the actual casualties which may be caused by terrorists, the cost per body would be absurd, considering the low mortality rate. They're actually protecting against the propaganda that would be gained by adversaries, making tptb look weak and bruising their egos.

Really, for as hawkish as my background is, I consider muslim "terrorists", THEMSELVES, to be a very small threat to my lifestyle and to America in general.

I guess I'm not a patriot.

All is well in Central Cali people come and go as they please mostly.

What I don't understand is, three or four years ago when I've seen topic's addressing about "police state"on here and now some of you ATS members were giving birth to cows and horses because of his statements. When TSA was and "still is" patting you in all sorts of places, people was and "still is" having cows and now this guys is stating his opinion, some of you are giving him a gift wrap block of ice replies to him...I mean really??

If this is a so-called police state, we have learn to adapt to it and take it with a grain of salt and its only going to get worse. As far as I'm concern, I am pretty sure there are alot of other countries laws are far worse than ours so again, its no "big deal. As far as D.C. (Dangerously close) as I like calling it, how many idiots attempted to shoot up the White House?? So yes, security and police is going to heavy there with a mircoscope up your a** to see everything you're doing. I dont care what colour, race or what degree you hold on name of education, these people dont know who you are or what you are capable of.

So just brush it off your shoulders and move on.

its insane. there are no terrorists. we attacked two countries to promote globalist interests, there have been no real attacks, unless you consider people set up and funded by the fbi as 'real-attacks', since 2001. its insane that we live in a 'terrosrist' state. it was then, and it is now. evil if you ask me,