On Tour In America & It's A Police State. No Doubt About It.

Security checkpoints at national monuments hardly constitutes a "police state." Do you even know what a police state is? I'd suggest doing some research into actual police states before you make such broad claims. This country is NOTHING like a polite state, it's not even close. Someone who has lived in those conditions would probably literally laugh in your face for suggesting it.

It's not perfect.. it's a pain in the butt sometimes.. but we have been attacked, and the country is trying to deal with it. It's difficult to deal with a group of people who will so readily kill themselves for their brainwashed cause. It's very imperfect, we've not had to deal with this sort of thing before. The airport scanners are a good example of how poorly this is being handled. But it will get better over time, at least I believe so.

But this is no police state - it's not even remotely close to one. Educate yourself a bit.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

What Hillbillies? So far in this thread I've been called 'Dumber', a 'Hillbillie' and 'Sport' because I disagree with the OP. Grow up.

Do you guys have any thoughts on what actually needs to change, or are you just interested in complaining? What do you propose we do, take out all checkpoints?

That's as good a place as any to start.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
reply to post by MRuss

 

Stop whining.That's all I'm getting from your post.It's not that big of a deal to me.There is a reason why there's so much security.It is not 1920 anymore.The world has changed and so has America.Really,if you don't like it either do one of two things.Find another job or move to another country.Also,do you really expect security not to be tight in our nations capital?REALLY?

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

Even 30 years ago, there was no iron fence blocking off the White House. Pennsylvania Avenue was open to all citizens for use as a road. You could protest anywhere, there were no "free speech zones" and the very idea is ludicrous. If we have freedom of speech, how can you restrict it to certain zones and expect it to have any real meaning? I am sorry to say, but you my friend are the problem. If you accept the police state as "good", as "normal", as "necessary" for our freedom, then our forefathers would like to have a word with you.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Originally posted by Hardstepah
no police state? i live in california, and you try and buy a gun to protect yourself from all the thug drug dealing gangsters in my neighborhood and see how much of a police state it isn't.

Those of us who live in the "free" US (ie not on either coast) can not fix this for you. It is a state issue and has to be fixed by residents of that state. It's a tragedy that we have arrived at this point, and I wish I could help you, but it is your fellow citizens that have done this to you. It is not the federal government.

Where I live, there are absolutely no state restrictions on any firearms that I wish to buy. I don't say this to rub salt in the wound, but simply to point out that you are suffering under state laws, not US laws.

reply to post by poloblack


I fully agree. This past winter I recall a time I went to the bank (PNC) whom I have had an account with for 5 years now. Its snowing outside so I have on my Leather Coat and my Beanie to keep my head warm. As soon as I walk in an Officer standing guard walks up to me and says, " sir you need to take that hat off." I'm thinking are you serious I'm really cold, and i should be able to leave a hat on if I want to. But I had to take it off for "Security Reasons" They are turning this country into a police state, one little rule at a time..and camera's, and taps, and satellites.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
I think we are on the same page. As I said in a previous post, I am very concerned about our deteriorating rights and I fight these intrusions every chance that I get. But the simple fact is that we are not living in a police state.

Have we had a lot of our rights infringed over the last decade? Yes.

Are we in danger of losing more rights? Absolutely.

But, are we living in a police state now? No, not even close.

We will probably settle on some common point. While I'm feeling this or that more offending and as sign of police state in making, you can see it as reasonable security precaution. I can not help myself but what I see around me is similar to Germany at early 30. It is not same, but similar. Only "Ziel" is same. Neocons in USA set the World on "unsustainable" path ... path to Hell and if we will not point out every misconduct we will march this way till terrible end. It is better to call protofascist state fascist state than say sorry from behind barbed wire. And yes, I honestly think we are marching this direction. Or do you see any signs of down on this front?

Refrain:

"We're all living in America,
America is wunderbar.
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.

When I'm dancing, I want to lead,
even if you all are spinning alone,
let's exercise a little control.
I'll show you how it's done right.
We form a nice round (circle),
freedom is playing on all the fiddles,
music is coming out of the White House,
and near Paris stands Mickey Mouse.

We're all living in America...

I know steps that are very useful,
and I'll protect you from missteps,
and anyone who doesn't want to dance in the end,
just doesn't know that he has to dance!
We form a nice round (circle),
I'll show you the right direction,
to Africa goes Santa Claus,
and near Paris stands Mickey Mouse.

We're all living in America,
America is wunderbar.
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.
We're all living in America,
Coca-Cola, Wonderbra,
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.

This is not a love song,
this is not a love song.
I don't sing my mother tongue,
No, this is not a love song.

We're all living in America,
Amerika is wunderbar.
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.
We're all living in America,
Coca-Cola, sometimes WAR,
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika."


-Alien

reply to post by MRuss


What I am hearing is that the security efforts made by our government, in an admittedly ham-handed and clumsy way, to keep it's citizens safe from an unknowable threat is being derided as un-American because it assaults our sense of freedom. Perhaps rather, we are really offended because we don't do security very well. We don't do it very well because it goes against our American spirit. We are Americans. Ours is the home of the brave. Land of the free. Having to secure everything is not very brave. It hurts our sensibilities to have to do this. Checking and snooping on us, that embarrasses us to the shame of our freedom. Ours is the generation that is now entrusted with the high ideals of the freedoms of our fathers and the generation now entrusted in honoring the blood of our children who have died to protect these ideals. And yes, while it does mean that we have to acknowledge that the world has changed and we are inescapably required to provide security to protect ourselves in this fast, vast new world - we don't like it. And because we don't like doing security we resist doing it which is why we haven't learned to do it very well. So maybe we just need to learn to do security in a way that it does not offend our sense of freedom.

Originally posted by fleabit... we've not had to deal with this sort of thing before.

There were the anarchist wave of bombings and assassinations of a hundred years ago. There were the violent political radicals of the '60s. There was the wave of skyjackings in the '70s. There was the international wave of violent Palestinian-based terrorist groups of that era. In none of those eras did we see the need to suspend our civil rights. We took appropriate measures but we didn't destroy our freedoms in the process.

reply to post by poloblack


Um.... you might want to recheck your stats on that.

As a resident outside of DC, I call your bunk.

The lines are long for DC because it is a massive tourist area, it gets busy. I have never been held up because of security.

I don't quite agree with a police state yet, but I became aware that businesses may be enlisting their employees to look for potential "red flags" from things that people buy in stores. This happened to me recently. My husband and I had some branches to clear from a property that we purchased, and also the foundation of the house needed some fill dirt. I enjoy working outdoors so while he was at work I took our pickup and stopped by a hardware store alone to buy some supplies.

I went to the checkout with an order for 20 bags of fill dirt, gloves, a large ball of twine and a cheap knife to cut the twine. The checkout lady eyed me suspiciously and asked, "What are you going to do with the twine?" I said, "Well I'm going to bundle up some branches today," She said, "Oh, that's a LOT of twine," I said, "Well, the small package of twine costs almost as much as the large one." She finished checking me out silently and it occurred to me then that it wasn't just friendly chit-chat.

So I left the inside of the store and drove into the yard to load the dirt. I started to load it and when another employee finally came over and started to help, he asked what was I going to to today with the dirt. The attendant who checks the truck when you leave the yard spent seemed to spend way more time looking into the back of the truck than when my husband is with me. Because the people out in the yard seemed to be acting strange too, I think the checkout lady must have said something to them. I don't know anyone who works at a hardware store and I am wondering if employees are being encouraged to be suspicious and question people like this or did I just have a random experience with a couple of weird acting people?

To the OP:
As "profesionnal lurker" I can observe, that lately if somebody post something out of the box and right after comes horde of self-important trolls it means, that idea is valid.
Congratulation Sir - You hit the nail in the head!

BTW security threat means in this field "Islamic fundamentalism". Please show me some genuine Islamic terrorists not founded/mined/payed by CIA, MOSSAD or FSB. We are slipping to police state thanks to "people" who should protect us.

Uh forgot MI6 and ISI. There are more but this is probably complete backbone.


I do not know Iranian and China intelligence services ... should be there. Also Australia and Germany have long and dirty hands.

Originally posted by MRuss
I'm a tour director.

I'm in DC, and New York and Boston a lot, and I do tours in Canada and the rest of the world, too. The past two weeks I've been on the road non-stop, primarily in New York and DC.

I've spent a majority of the time going through security checkpoints. At every attraction our bags are checked, we go through body scanners, we take off our shoes, our coats. You know the drill. Today alone I've been through six scanners. There are policemen everywhere. Eleven years after 9/11, I'm led to believe that terrorists are going to attack the bull on Wall Street?

Today we were touring Wall Street and you can't even walk up to the bull anymore and rub him for good luck. It's cordoned off and a policeman sits there all day in his police car two feet away to make sure no one hops the fence and touches the bull. Seriously? Even the bull----? Has someone made a terrorist threat against the bull? We've been walking by that bull on tour for a dozen years, but alas, it's been off limits for months now. It looks ridiculous behind its steel fences, like a bull in a zoo.

DC isn't any better----it's worse... and the truth is, there is no terrorist hiding behind the Jefferson Memorial or the Wall Street bull. TPTB are hoping to make life more difficult, more restricted. All under the guise of terrorism.

It takes hours to get in and see the new 9/11 memorial fountains. It takes hours to see the Statue of Liberty. It takes hours to see the Capitol, hours to see the archives, hours to get through security just about everywhere. It's the new normal. No one questions it. Most people think they are just doing their patriotic duty.

Out on the road so much, I really have a sense of what is happening to this country and how it plays out in everyday life.

So.....I'd love all of the people who are waiting for the aliens or the White Dragons or the Pentagon to come and save us to let me know when this might happen. Because everyday it gets worse and worse out here.

Everyday we look a little less like America and more like Amerika.

Well i would hate to be on a tour and have you for a director. Maybe you dont like interacting with people in a face to face setting. Perhaps better at phone support or doing something where you work alone.

Some people will deny it all the way to the gas chamber.

I have either seen paid government shills reply to justify the police state and play it down to the rest.

Or it has been trolls, maybe just plain ignorant people. I don't know.

I do know that in particular where I live is nice. I can say what I want go where I want do almost anything. That is just where I am though. That doesn't mean it isn't a police state 100 miles away.

Some of you people trying to justify this madness are exactly the ones that are to blame for all of history's atrocities. Just ignorant mimicking androids who would gladly take orders from hitler as long as the pay was alright and he wasn't burning jews anywhere near where they were stationed.

Camera's everywhere, RFID chips in everything, criminals getting away with what they want on mass scales, people being locked up for filming police, locked up for free speech, beat up for walking down a street, tased because the fat guy is just too lazy to try anything else. Tell me that isn't a POLICE STATE.

Not in 100% of Americas land is it like that. But you people going "Oh your just paranoid its okay where I live, stop whining". NEWSFLASH, its coming to a home near you. The biggest Tyranny ever is creeping in and we still have people in denial.

For the rest who realize what is being set up around them, I commend you. Keep fighting the good fight.

reply to post by TZela


Because 20 bags of "filldirt" can be used to make a "no-no". Anyone ordering that many bags would definitely be checked out.

reply to post by MRuss
yes the USA is no longer a free nation, we have scummed to and been defeated by a few!!! That in one day, did what no other nation could have done, bring us to our knees, and make us fear the unknown, all in the name of freedom, feel safer knowing this?

reply to post by MRuss


LOL;

Seriously? Even the bull----? Has someone made a terrorist threat against the bull? We've been walking by that bull on tour for a dozen years, but alas, it's been off limits for months now.

Yeah, I always think about the Security Theater of the TSA; you can't really STOP a determined terrorist. Other than the locked cockpits -- we aren't any safer on these airplanes -- not really. The thing that stops terrorism is that there is still most Americans and a good portion of Muslims who will turn them in. Alienating people and making them oppressed will INCREASE the security threat. If someone can get a weapon into prison -- it's a good chance they can get in anywhere.

Outside our airport is a huge parking lot. If "terrorists" really were determined to get us -- they could kill a lot of people there -- or in a stadium -- or a few hundred in a WalMart. So the "secure zones" are for the privileged -- and don't do anything for anyone outside of them but make them nervous -- and suck up tax dollars.

It's interesting what areas get the extra security - the more ABUSIVE of citizens some corporation or entity -- the more officers in flack jackets and black boots tend to hang our around it.

Originally posted by JanAmosComenius

Originally posted by Doc Gator
I think we are on the same page. As I said in a previous post, I am very concerned about our deteriorating rights and I fight these intrusions every chance that I get. But the simple fact is that we are not living in a police state.

Have we had a lot of our rights infringed over the last decade? Yes.

Are we in danger of losing more rights? Absolutely.

But, are we living in a police state now? No, not even close.

We will probably settle on some common point. While I'm feeling this or that more offending and as sign of police state in making, you can see it as reasonable security precaution. I can not help myself but what I see around me is similar to Germany at early 30. It is not same, but similar. Only "Ziel" is same. Neocons in USA set the World on "unsustainable" path ... path to Hell and if we will not point out every misconduct we will march this way till terrible end. It is better to call protofascist state fascist state than say sorry from behind barbed wire. And yes, I honestly think we are marching this direction. Or do you see any signs of down on this front?

As far as I am concerned, the reasonable security precautions were in place prior to 9/11. Unfortunately, the line between reasonable and necessary is razor thin and often blurred. I have big problems with the legislation that has been passed and the security protocols that have been put in place since then. I see little evidence to suggest that there is wide spread abuse of these powers, aside from the TSA, but the framework is definitely there.

My issue with the OP is that we are no where near a police state. That doesn't mean that we can let our guard down. And it doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight to recover the rights that we have already lost. It just means that if our destination is a police state, it is a long journey from where we are now.

I agree that we are marching in that direction but vigilance and public discussion will give them pause. And no, unfortunately I do not see dawn on the horizon. As a matter of fact, I don't think we have even made it to midnight yet.