Time to take the gun from the American public!

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Actually OP, there is a precedent to go on, that you would enjoy. What you are positing in your post is that we do what the National Socialists did in Germany in the 1930's. That worked out real well...

Pass laws... gather up all the guns... engage a defacto result that only criminals (news flash... criminals don't CARE about your steeenkin laws) and psychopaths (many whom work in government) are armed in the U.S..

Ideals are nice, and it's a simple fact, that the easiest change to engage for an individual is close to home.

My advice? Why don't you commit to being unarmed, and not shooting people?

Imagine: An attractive woman (or man), carrying a concealed weapon in her purse/on her person (and skilled in it's usage). "Wacky gun toting right winger"

Imagine: An equally attractive woman (or man), lying dead in the woods raped and murdered with their skivvies stuffed in their mouth. "Really sad thing".

Media propagandized gun grabbers think folks should just learn to live with that "really sad thing". The attractive woman who has and uses her CCL heartily disagrees.

...and this is before we even get to the fact that it's just as much of a right as free speech in the U.S. As a matter of fact, it is the constitutional protection for the 1st Amendment of free speech.

It would be great if there were no despots or criminals. We're not there yet, and things will likely get worse before they get better.

I am a long time lurker in many forums and over the course of about 5 years my total post count on the internet is less than one hundred. That being said, I have never felt more compelled to register to a site just to reply to something than I do now. Alright, let me start off by attacking the links you provided. You pointed out several violent crimes involving guns. I have a counter link for you, good sir. en.wikipedia.org... basically, the UK has some of the most strict gun laws in the world, however, the violent crime rate is soaring. Prohibition on anything never works because people will find a way to get what they want, this is especially true of criminals. Look at alcohol prohibition, and the current drug prohibitions. Even if it were possible to prevent every citizen from gun ownership violent crimes would not stop. Let me give you an example: prison. Prisoners do not have access to guns or any weapons for that matter, but that doesn't stop them from raping each other, fighting, and making lunch tray shivs. Imagine that, improvised weapons, don't think that would happen outside prison? Look into the Chechen rebels, they do it all the time, as do insurgents in the Middle East, and.. wow I could go on with this for a while. Now that I have assured you that it is not possible to disarm the masses(and if it was it wouldn't do any good) let's move on to why the masses should NOT be disarmed. I can't be bothered to get a link, but in WW2 Japanese spys did live in America (although this did not justify the internment of over 100,000 innocent Japanese Americans), and the general consensus among them as far as invading the US was that it would not be a good idea, because, according to them, almost every man, woman, and child owned a gun. Had an invasion occured, the fighting would have stagnated in the streets, an invasion force would have a hell of a lot to deal with even if they could defeat the military(yet again, look to the Middle East, that is basically what is going on there). Now, I don't believe we have to worry about fighting off an invasion force anytime soon, having the most powerful military and all, but there are some more practical reasons why we need our guns. Have a list:
1. guns are super fun
2. loads of people put food on the table using guns
3. loads of lives have, potentially, been SAVED using guns, although I would like to point out that this is not the case when tyrants have guns(I used to live next to a sheriff station, ironically, but that did not deter a thief from breaking in, fortunately I keep my Savage 12 gauge behind my bedroom door. Worked amazingly as a deterrent when the would be thief heard the sound of a magnum turkey load getting chambered)
4. If the # ever hits the fan(I hope I don't get flamed for this) and we have a "nazi like" situation where people are being dragged from their homes and imprisoned for no reason, do YOU want to be armed only with your fists when your family is torn from you? Didn't think so.
5. The right to bear arms is constitutionally protected. If you care to have a look back in history, you will notice that the more that this wonderful document gets #ed with, the less freedom we have *cough Patriot Act
6. I know I have already said this, but the people who are committing violent crimes with guns are not going to automagically have a change of heart and become productive members of society. They are going to continue to pillage rape and burn with whatever means they have at their disposal.
7. # you. Come and try to take my guns.
I hope that this has cleared the issue up a bit and enlightened a few people here. Anti gun nuts, feel free to reply with your arguments so that I can destroy those and humiliate you as well. Have a good day, and pass the ammunition.

I think I figured out why these shootings are happening.

The "no guns" signs aren't worded strongly enough.

Originally posted by StopFearMongering
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

You know who kill gang-bangers? Other gang-bangers, with guns. And other citizens, with guns. And police officers, with guns.

It's not so much about knowing what to do if you're put in that situation, it's more of a deterrent. Would you decide to shoot up a gunstore like that one dummy did? I'd hope not. And even if you did, you'd be gunned down.

Regardless, I don't see your point. You can't stop criminals from getting guns. Look at the prohibition. The only people who profited from that were the criminals, and people were still getting piss drunk. I'd rather take my chances of freezing up in a shootout rather than not having anything to fire back with. Granted, these are all very extreme circumstances but they do happen occasionally.

I have two points:

1. If it was decided to confiscate guns in this country there's absolutely nothing all the gun lovers could do about it, so they can kill that "pry from my cold hands" talk. The only thing barricading yourself in your house in your tighty whiteys yelling, "Come get my guns if ya dare!" will accomplish is getting yourself and your family killed. And the slap in the face would be the government agents wouldn't suffer even ONE casualty.

2. Even most of the people armed would be of no good in surprise real life situations because they don't have the "heart" to pull the trigger and shoot someone, despite all that chest thumping they do around their buddies.

I've done door kicking legally and illegally and I've yet to come upon a situation where the target was prepared. Unless you have your gun surgically connected to your hand, you will be caught with your pants down (sometimes literally).

The criminals will have an advantage with their gun because they have the "heart" to use it with out freezing up.

reply to post by AGWskeptic



Perfect example of what would happen if they were to outlaw guns. These people can make exact replica's of any gun on the market today out of spare parts and metal scrap.

Originally posted by ventian
By removing guns you also have to remove all other weapons from society. Any sharp objects or blunt objects included. This is not a feasible plan, as there will always be people that kill other people. You could kill someone with a butter knife. Gun control advocates are just people who are afraid of guns or people who are too stupid to know that humans are violent by nature.

Some humans are violent by nature and there is usually something wrong with them.
You can choose not to live among the wild animals and the crazy people.
Decide to be different, go rogue and keep vicious wild animals and violent deranged nuts out of the living space if you have to hire cops and animal control services to do it.
This is called civilization. Unfortunately it hasn't reached some of those on the outskirts of this country but like the Christian missionaries....we'll get there.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


You can have my GUN/s when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.

If ake away the guns then everyone stabs eachother to death.....so, What's next ???????

Take away our eating utensils so we can satisfy a few people, who are the minority I might add ?????

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by StopFearMongering
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

Also, if everyone was armed there would be no crimes. I read this story about some dummy trying to rob a gunstore, only to be shot down with no other casualties. "A polite society is an armed society". I could get really into all of the different applications firearms are used for, but you've heard them all, no doubt.

edit on 4-4-2012 by StopFearMongering because: (no reason given)

Another myth...

If it were remotely true, gangbangers wouldn't die right, they're all armed correct?

Most people don't know what to do with a gun or would bish up when it came time to, even after they've spent all that time training.

You are so wrong it's hilarious.

For every one gun crime committed by a criminal, there are something like 3.5 to 4 defensive uses of a gun in the prevention of a crime, and only 10% (I forget the exact %) of those involve the actual use of the gun. In other words, the gun was simply shown to the crook and the crime in progress was halted.

You never hear about these incidents because the MSM is not interested in the positive aspects of gun ownership. They concentrate on the stories where a kid accidentally shoots his sibling when he finds his daddy's gun, and similar situations where they can make the gun look bad and drum up sympathy for their gun control agenda.

So yeah, you're wrong. Do your research rather than making assumptions about gun owners.

I'd like to see you break into my house while I am home. With my training, you'd get two in the chest and one in the head and you'd be dead before your corpse hit the floor.

edit on 4-4-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

As I've said, I've kicked doors legally and illegally. I have yet to run into someone prepared.

You having a gun simply means you're shot on sight...

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Ah, so you're a cop. You should know that the average burglar has a bit less training than you or I. I also am going to assume that the doors you've kicked in were of the homes of these same scumbags. I mean, I hope you weren't kicking in the doors of Marines freshly home from Iraq and shooting them on sight. Do you live in Phoenix?

reply to post by truthseeker808


Yeah ...I wish you people showed this devotion to your guaranteed freedom and sovereign rights when it comes to something like de-criminalizing marijuana or protecting your facebook password, or getting strip searched in the airports for no reason violating your 4th amendment rights. Now you can be stripped searched in jail for not having your dog licensed. Good job showing them whose boss. That side arm your toting appears to be worthless.

Originally posted by lacrimaererum
2nd april 2012
7 shot Dead , 3 injured in Oakland
www.bbc.co.uk...

2nd april 2012
4 shot injured restuarant
www.hattiesburgamerican.com...|mostview

1st April 2012
2 Shot Dead, 12 shot injured miami
edition.cnn.com...

8th March 2012
2 shoot dead, 7 shot injured pittsburgh
www.cbsnews.com...

27th February 2012
3 shot dead , 2 shot wounded
www.foxnews.com...

22nd February 2012
5 shot dead, atlanta
edition.cnn.com...

29th January 2012
5 shot dead Birmingham, Ala
www.reuters.com...

This is only a few of the mass shootings over the last couple of months. Its not including the single shooting incidents or the huge amount of suicides carried out with guns. Its only the start of April and the bodies are piling up from gun crimes in the US. The US society is sick. It needs help. The gun needs to be taken off the american citizen. These statistics are only going to get worse. THe US like a lot of soceities are under serious pressure. Its people are angry, anxious, scared, struggling and unfortunately trigger happy. How many people in the US are at breaking point and are armed?

The only excuse that is wheeled out time and again is, 'its part of our constitution' or protect ourselves from the government. What a joke. The US society are completely at each others throats. The governments have nothing to worry about.

Well did you ever think it might be time to change the constitution. Its 2012. Maybe its time for a new one?

The population of America needs to be disarmed. You don't hear too much from the government because they seem to be content for the citizens to be killing each other.

The problem is , its like trying to get an alcoholic to stop drinking or a junkie off drugs. They are so addicted to their drink or drugs or weapon they are blind to the truth.

When a population is allowed to arm themselves with small weapons of death , and when there is so many guns in the population, doesn't the population become a weapon of mass destruction.

How do you convince a nation to grow up and realise its time to put down the guns?

Very good article i found here while looking around on this;
www.guardian.co.uk...

- In 2007 - 27 Teenagers were stabbed to death in London
- The first fatal stabbing that happened in the UK in 2008 was in the early hours of the new year!
- 3 More fatal stabbings happened in the UK within the first week
- In the UK knife crime happens every 24 minutes< - in London it is every 50 minutes
- From July 2007 - October 2007 there were 5,500 serious knife crimes
- On May bank holiday 2006 (27th-29th May 06) the police recorded 50 Knife attacks
- Most people who are at risk are Males aged between 14-24

Facts About Knife Crime


Now, take your arguments and replace US with UK and gun with knife. See how that works?

Actually I was just wondering if there had been more people carrying guns how many of these might have prevented or ended more quickly.

I never believed the old saying "Once you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them" until recently, now I firmly believe if we had more ways of protecting ourselves criminals and insane people might think twice before opening up on unarmed people.

Let me also remind the OP England STILL HAS GUN CRIMES! And yet they are outlawed...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Instead of taking the guns away maybe they should make them cheaper and easier to own.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Well with that 2nd Amendment, we can as a militia, restore all that has been taken. And I don't think 7 out of 10 Americans are wrong. What America needs right now is a mass deportation of folks just like you.

You can't restore anything. Who are you kidding?
You get molested in airports, your private info is sold, you can be given a traffic ticket by a camera and Now you are going to get a nice naked strip search when you get pulled over for your expired tag.

Wow that gun has come in real handy eh. One of these days it will land you in jail and you will think what I said might have been true. More trouble than they are worth in a civilized society. I agree there are areas that might need them but to shove them down everyone's throat the way the NRA does is totally WRONG>

reply to post by DZAG Wright


You kick someone's door down and not expect them react.... so they are shot on sight...

Whatever helps you sleep at night apparently.

Originally posted by truthseeker808
reply to post by newcovenant

 

NO, you seem to have gotton the wrong opinion about the common law abiding gun owner...most arent questioning why they cant stockpile assault weapons, or carry their piece in a wild west cowboy rig

they use weapons for home defense, hunting, sport target shoots, and as a hobby

I dont care who you think they are,
most gun owners arent biting at the bit to shoot some nwo gestapo, or hold rank in an imaginary race war

edit on 4-4-2012 by truthseeker808 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by truthseeker808 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by truthseeker808 because: (no reason given)

Thanks pal but don't tell me about gun owners because I own a gun.

You people think CONTROL is a bad word,, you want people armed in traffic, at work in Churches and Parks and sports facilities...you don't care who has a gun or how they get them.
You are getting spoon fed by the NRA and just crapping out the by-product - blind opposition to common sense.

reply to post by newcovenant

You wonder why people get the wrong opinion of rednecks?

Actually no. I don't wonder at all. The media loves to paint stereotypes that are anything but the truth. And folks like yourself buy into them hook, line, and sinker.

I think you'll find with just a modicum of research that politicians with the authority to declare war and "police actions" have murdered more humans exponentially than any armed citizen ever has.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

OOOh a guy who thinks he's a Psychic.
Yes I can/would take you out,guns clatter you SURE AS HELL aren't as quiet on approach as I'm trained to detect and boards creak, not to mention if it would be done it would happen en mass. My my brother is a police detective / SWAT officer.He wouldn.t even think of trying, boy.
.If you attack vets in many places at once your.Then your underwear would be red.
Criminals aren't matches for warriors and we don't hold our pistol sideways.That gives me first probability kill.
But in a clutch up close,I'd use a blade,AL Mar Warrior.

Originally posted by newcovenant
You can't restore anything. Who are you kidding?

Fearmonger much?

Originally posted by newcovenant
You get molested in airports,

which is not a violation of a person 4th amendment. People are free to take another form of travel.

Originally posted by newcovenant
your private info is sold,

Caveat Emptor? read the fine print next time.

Originally posted by newcovenant
you can be given a traffic ticket by a camera

An infraction, not a crime and they can be challenged.

Originally posted by newcovenant
and Now you are going to get a nice naked strip search when you get pulled over for your expired tag.

Back to fearmongering. Law Enforcement cannot strip search anyone. Strip searches can be done in the jail system and the Supreme Court just upheld that. The guy was not stripped search at roadside, and the officer who arrested him did not perform the strip search. Don't want to be pulled over / arrested and strip searched in jail, my adiice would be dont break the law. Secondly, are you advocating that there should be differeing standards in place when people are booked into the jail?

what if a white male is arrested for rape and a black man is arrested for expired tags, and only the rapist gets stripped searched. Trying to make eceptions for this or that is just invting a lawsuit.

what if the driver is arrested for rape as well as being cited for expired tags. Does he get strip searched?

Originally posted by newcovenant
Wow that gun has come in real handy eh. One of these days it will land you in jail and you will think what I said might have been true. More trouble than they are worth in a civilized society. I agree there are areas that might need them but to shove them down everyone's throat the way the NRA does is totally WRONG>

Please take the time to learn the laws and how they apply, in additiont o the role of the various branches of government at the local state AND federal level before making claims that are inaccurate and not true.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by newcovenant

 

You wonder why people get the wrong opinion of rednecks?

Actually no. I don't wonder at all. The media loves to paint stereotypes that are anything but the truth. And folks like yourself buy into them hook, line, and sinker.

I think you'll find with just a modicum of research that politicians with the authority to declare war and "police actions" have murdered more humans exponentially than any armed citizen ever has.

I am not against armed citizens.
I am against arming the criminally insane, the murderous, the irresponsible and the immature.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Why do you kick in doors illegally?

I wouldn't suggest that at my house, as some of us are prepared!